City trying to close FBO. Claims tainted fuel

So? I said THIS SIDE of Washington. That does not mean Washington has to do with THIS issue. It means Washington is so full of bull**** that this conflict and bull**** is small in comparison.

Go flip another burger.
 
Well some of you may have seen the Fuel Analysis results posted yesterday. I'm sorry they are a bit difficult to read but thats the best I could do.

Thanks to SCCuttler for posting for me.

Any Comments Noobie?

For those interested the city has spent $72,169.77 fighting NB Aero the past 2 years. This went to contract lawyers from Austin and doesn't include the city legal department costs. This would mostly be to block our open records requests writting to the TX AG.
 
Well, well,well...seems as though the City may not be quite so truthful...if I recollect right the fuel issues started in December...1st with the fuel farm...and when that didn't work with the fuel delivery in March...and your telling us they spent 72K in the past 2 years...they wouldn't have even gotten a bill until January for the fuel farm....think...think..think...seems like their actions may belie their words...what do you think Noobie?
 
Is this like the Public Forum of Record" for this dispute? Cool... This shows up on Google too doesn't it. I predict this will be the longest running pi--ing match this forum will see to date. Can we start a pool on on date and result? Should we accept dates after December 21 2012?
 
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Florida Cracker said:
It means Washington is so full of bull**** that this conflict and bull**** is small in comparison.
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It's difficult to read between the lines of the unusual sentence structure, new age spelling and interesting punctuation that typify your posts but if I understand you correctly this is something we can agree on.

Go flip another burger.
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:rofl: Thanks, I will.
 
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Henning,

If you google city trying to close FBO it show up in several places. This is the place I have chose to keep updated.

We have a large group of pilots that make open records requests. Request anything you want. I'll posta link to the city site for open records. The emails of the city council , mayor, city manager are posted a few pages back. Here it is again.

Contact the City leaders and tell them what you think.

Mayor Pospisil mayor@nbtexas.org

Councilman Zapata rzapata@nbtexas.org

Mayor Pro Tem Goodner mgoodner@nbtexas.org

Councilman Ybarra mybarra@nbtexas.org

Councilwoman Nolte snolte@nbtexas.org

Councilman Miranda bmiranda@nbtexas.org

Councilman Digges sdigges@nbtexas.org

City Manager Morrison mmorrison@nbtexas.org

Assistant City Manager Camareno rcamareno@nbtexas.org

Airport Director lllerena@nbtexas.org

Open records request: http://www.ci.new-braunfels.tx.us/DocumentView.aspx?DID=1128

Mailing Address
P.O. Box 311747
New Braunfels, Texas 78131-1747
 
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ultrasonix said:
Henning,

If you google city trying to close FBO it show up in several places. This is the place I have chose to keep updated.

We have a large group of pilots that make open records requests. Request anything you want. I'll posta link to the city site for open records. The emails of the city council , mayor, city manager are posted a few pages back. Here it is again.

Contact the City leaders and tell them what you think.
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Only thing I want is popcorn...

I think y'all should have a shoot out, or just the 2 lead men in this. Six gun SA drawdown winner takes the fuel concession. That should be fair enough. You could also go Rambo on City Hall. I know some people in that area, Ma Deuce lives there...

I served 7 years on a TX ranch, although I was lucky and had work release. Most miserable place I've ever lived.
 
Interesting and sad you should mention a shoot out. Do you know our City leaders bolted themselves behind closed electronic doors several years ago...yes during the reign of our current king...it had always been a walk in affair...walk in chat with the secretary up front for a minute...then meander your way through to the office you needed...all the way chatting with whomever..about whatever..for the most part a friendly place..then came the electronic locks barring the citizens from the core of power...and most recently, newly installed metal detectors at city council meetings. A very sad commentary on the current situation in our once fine city....makes me SAD for the good old days...meanwhile...back to the fight.
 
Hey don't forget to watch for Birdie Wednesday morning...as I fly in for breakfast..before the float down the good old Comal. Guess I won't be buying Jet B for my Birdie...heard they had painted the yellow pipes white down at the fuel farm...and marked the pipes as Jet A...sure hope they did some fuel samples to confirm it was Jet A before they repainted the pipes...surely they wouldn't just remark without testing. Anybody want to do an Open Records request on the procedures followed when such a presumed inappropriate marking is found? Could be dangerous...if fuel testing isn't done.:nono:
 
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FlyLady said:
Interesting and sad you should mention a shoot out. Do you know our City leaders bolted themselves behind closed electronic doors several years ago...yes during the reign of our current king...it had always been a walk in affair...walk in chat with the secretary up front for a minute...then meander your way through to the office you needed...all the way chatting with whomever..about whatever..for the most part a friendly place..then came the electronic locks barring the citizens from the core of power...and most recently, newly installed metal detectors at city council meetings. A very sad commentary on the current situation in our once fine city....makes me SAD for the good old days...meanwhile...back to the fight.
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Come on, there's no sport in shooting them at their offices, you gotta flush them out and get them on the run. Chase em down the street with a horse and a field hockey stick or a Polo mallet if your not that good of a rider. Just crack en at the base of the skull. Oooo, you could always hire a hooker to start a sex scandal... I've got a friend, she's low on cash, she'd do it, or better yet, hire some 16 year old girl and get him real good. I think a good show down with six shooters would be better though.
 
I like your style, Henning...
 
Henning said:
Come on, there's no sport in shooting them at their offices, you gotta flush them out and get them on the run. Chase em down the street with a horse and a field hockey stick or a Polo mallet if your not that good of a rider. Just crack en at the base of the skull. Oooo, you could always hire a hooker to start a sex scandal... I've got a friend, she's low on cash, she'd do it, or better yet, hire some 16 year old girl and get him real good. I think a good show down with six shooters would be better though.
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Ya know Henning...I think there might just be a place for you in this fair City...what a good SEX scandal might do...after all there are lots of "family" hotels just waiting for all the "family" floaters on the grand Comal River...oh, I forgot that's a whole different calamity going on. Let's see they have tried to ban this and that, tax that and the other, and still they don't learn...now they repeat their stupidty at the airport....did I mention the City lost their legal battle with the River Outfitters...who are now taking the money out of the city's backside.:idea:
 
Henning, This isn't the old west . We can't go around shooting and brawling in the streets. PLEASE refrain from talk about sixguns and shooting. The same goes for bustin heads with POLO mallets.

We want to win this in the courts not in the streets. Not all of our city leaders are crooked.

Thanks,
 
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heh - setting up a political scandal, I like it. It's one of the rules of politics, "Don't get caught with a dead girl or a live boy."
 
FLYLADY that can't be true. At BAZ ALL Line service workers are required to wear distinctive uniforms. That would be a violation of the airport minimum standards. The airport director would never violate the rules..............Would he?

Maybe he is saving money on uniforms to pay for the $72,000 in legal fees he has accrued. I expect that $$$ to climb exponentially in the near future. Something with 6 zeros behind it. Can you count MILLIONS ?

Did you get a picture of that by the way? I'd like to add it to my collection. Ya know a picture is worth a THOUSAND words.
 
Matthew said:
heh - setting up a political scandal, I like it. It's one of the rules of politics, "Don't get caught with a dead girl or a live boy."
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:idea: I have got the perfect "boy" in Ft Lauderdale. He's 22 or 23, but he looks like he's 13, He's 5'4 and probably weighs 75lbs. He's gay and he'd be game. He's good looking too...
 
FlyLady said:
Think, think, think..not sure a scandal has to be set up. I bought gas there not too long ago and the Airport Director...nicely dressed in business type clothing pulled up in the fuel truck to provide the fuel...and the airport secretary popped out of the truck to assist. Ever seen that happen before...struck me as kind of strange at the time...I mean...yah don't see the line guys driving around in the fuel truck with a lady sidekick...think this might be the scandal already in existence...any thoughts? Now that I think about it...neither one were in uniforms...or wearing ID badges...but when I went by the terminal that is who they turned out to be...lucky for me I guess..could have been bad actors if yah know what I mean.:goofy:
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Everybody has skeletons, you wanna win? Get peoples dirt. do it J Edgar Hoover style. There was a cross dressing freak that Presidents feared, how many years did he have the FBI? Hire a good PI firm, it's gonna cost, but it'll be the most cost and time effective way.
 
FlyLady said:
Think, think, think..not sure a scandal has to be set up. I bought gas there not too long ago and the Airport Director...nicely dressed in business type clothing pulled up in the fuel truck to provide the fuel...and the airport secretary popped out of the truck to assist. Ever seen that happen before...struck me as kind of strange at the time...I mean...yah don't see the line guys driving around in the fuel truck with a lady sidekick...think this might be the scandal already in existence...any thoughts? Now that I think about it...neither one were in uniforms...or wearing ID badges...but when I went by the terminal that is who they turned out to be...lucky for me I guess..could have been bad actors if yah know what I mean.:goofy:
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Are you guys kidding me?!

You're gonna talk this kind of trash...stick to the salient points and you don't have to worry about being charged with slander...

If you're stooping to this level your arguements have no merit...and that's why everyone in New Braunfels is laughing at you.
 
ultrasonix said:
Well some of you may have seen the Fuel Analysis results posted yesterday. I'm sorry they are a bit difficult to read but thats the best I could do.

Thanks to SCCuttler for posting for me.

Any Comments Noobie?

For those interested the city has spent $72,169.77 fighting NB Aero the past 2 years. This went to contract lawyers from Austin and doesn't include the city legal department costs. This would mostly be to block our open records requests writting to the TX AG.
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Yeah Chris I do have a few questions...


Actually, I was wondering where the rest of it was...because at ABIA I can track the fuel from the tank farm to the truck to my tanks...

You posted two separate documents...an incomplete D910 test from Alcor (the google is your friend) and a certificate of analysis from Conoco Phillips. You flew your airplane based on those results???

What you didnt' post was a bill of lading or rack slip that shows the chain of custody for the product...you know, what tank at conoco to what tanker that delivered it to NB Aero.

If you have questions about avgas storage, etc. you can refer to API standards or maybe ask Mr Frederick..as an airport manger he'll be able to help you...
 
How did we go from "city is evil" to "city has sex with girls in fuel trucks." I don't even want to hear about this anymore, and I hate hearing about city abuse....
 
SkyHog said:
How did we go from "city is evil" to "city has sex with girls in fuel trucks." I don't even want to hear about this anymore, and I hate hearing about city abuse....
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You just want to have sex in a fuel truck.
 
Nick would hit it. The fuel truck that is.
 
Noobie said:
Yeah Chris I do have a few questions...


Actually, I was wondering where the rest of it was...because at ABIA I can track the fuel from the tank farm to the truck to my tanks...

You posted two separate documents...an incomplete D910 test from Alcor (the google is your friend) and a certificate of analysis from Conoco Phillips. You flew your airplane based on those results???

What you didnt' post was a bill of lading or rack slip that shows the chain of custody for the product...you know, what tank at conoco to what tanker that delivered it to NB Aero.

If you have questions about avgas storage, etc. you can refer to API standards or maybe ask Mr Frederick..as an airport manger he'll be able to help you...
Click to expand...

Look at it this way -

we've seen more here than the city can manage to produce.
 
First I want to say that the pilots involved in this dispute do not support any use of Violence .
If you really want to help us, do so by making open records requests for information and requesting the city release its analysis results. Not by making threats to city leaders or even joking about it . It's not helping our cause.

To keep this on topic. The city made the accusation, let the city prove it. Show us their analysis results. What ever happened to innocent until proven guilty?
 
Totally second ultrasonix on this one...violence is never the answer...and in our society everyone should be presumed innocent until proven guilty no matter how the circumstances appear...this means "suspect fuel deliveries", or anything else that one may see or encounter. As always, open and honest respectful discussion is at the core of a solution.
 
It is interesting to see how many ways the city has of avoiding putting up the facts. Kind of like someone with something to hide...
 
It seems to me as I said earlier...it is unfortunate that everyone involved can't sit down discuss things and come to a mutually acceptable conclusion. I fear Mr. Cracker's assumptions may be correct...it's time the grub is available at the Cafe' so that we have a reason to fly to BAZ...rather than past it. BTW...conversation this morning was interesting...:yikes:
 
This mornings gathering at the Cafe went well. Many have committed to attending the next Airport Advisory Board meeting August 10 @ 6pm. We hope to meet the new board members. More open records requests have been received. Got some good information for our next round of requests.

Fly , Drive, Bike,

Be There,
 
I don't imagine anyone here has any violent intent - it's just crass humor.

Carry on.
 
Noobie,

I posted the analysis as promised. The city claimed contamination from a heavier product. Cross contamination of fuels.....Read the newspaper article posted.....The analysis shows it's 100LL AVGAS, no contamination.

:idea:Now its up to the city to show theirs. :dunno: :no:
:nonod:



What building do you work at at ABIA? I worked there for 13 years. Do you work in GA? If you do you should know that the GA impact at ABIA is about $3,200,000 according to TAA. ABIA isn't GA friendly:no:

That's less than 50R :yikes:...........................ROFLMAO:rofl:
 
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I flew into BAZ with a student last night. We were in need of fuel to complete a night X/C, but chose to fuel up at PEZ to avoid spending money at the city's fuel farm...

Ryan
 
Good job..keep it up...buy anywhere but BAZ...we want our cafe' back...and that can't happen until the real fbo has fuel again
 
What a colossal waste of energy, for the city to be paying people to play this child's game of "I'm important and you're not," at the people's expense. Too bad they don't have to cough up the wasted money out of their overpaid salaries.
 
SCCutler said:
Look at it this way -

we've seen more here than the city can manage to produce.
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Okay, SCCutler...what have you seen here? Is that enough for you to gas up and fly your family on?

Fuel management at airports is simple...the bill of lading and rack slips all reference two things...the tank that the certificate of analysis was conducted on and the truck/shipping information. Gas goes from the tank farm to the FBO.

You don't have that here...maybe Chris or the FBO has it and are just sitting on it...but it aint here. And if it aint here, if an FBO is doing this, shouldn't pilots be concerned...is this really good for GA?
 
ultrasonix said:
Noobie,

I posted the analysis as promised. The city claimed contamination from a heavier product. Cross contamination of fuels.....Read the newspaper article posted.....The analysis shows it's 100LL AVGAS, no contamination.

:idea:Now its up to the city to show theirs. :dunno: :no:
:nonod:



What building do you work at at ABIA? I worked there for 13 years. Do you work in GA? If you do you should know that the GA impact at ABIA is about $3,200,000 according to TAA. ABIA isn't GA friendly:no:

That's less than 50R :yikes:...........................ROFLMAO:rofl:
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No more hints...ABIA is all you get Chris.

You posted an incomplete analysis and an unrelated C of A. Fuel quality at airports is simple..the bill of lading, certificate of analysis and rack slips all reference the tanks the fuel was drawn from (also listed on the C of A), the truck the fuel went into, and where it was delivered..You're missing everything in between.

I looked at the articles, and all I saw was a claim of "cross-contamination". The only reference I saw to "contamination with a heavier product" has been in your posts and the analysis you reference and posted.

Even then, looking at your postings, the distillation temps are off a bit. If it was one thing when it went in the tanker...why is it different when it hit your planes?

You never did answer my question about the motor octane...MON/RON..where are they. If there is anything in the gas of significance...bet it will show up there...

Bottom line: What in the world is a reputable FBO doing conducing business like this?

Oh yeah, I've done fuels in a past life...
 
Noobie, I dont particularly have a dog in this fight. But you just seem like a troll here. If you want to be given any credibility then you need to identify yourself and explain your interest in this debacle. You just seem to be just a bit on the slimey side. I really would consider your opinion if your werent so reluctant to put yourself out there...So ill go ahead and say it.....put up or shut up
 
Noobie said:
No more hints...ABIA is all you get Chris.

You posted an incomplete analysis and an unrelated C of A. Fuel quality at airports is simple..the bill of lading, certificate of analysis and rack slips all reference the tanks the fuel was drawn from (also listed on the C of A), the truck the fuel went into, and where it was delivered..You're missing everything in between.

I looked at the articles, and all I saw was a claim of "cross-contamination". The only reference I saw to "contamination with a heavier product" has been in your posts and the analysis you reference and posted.

Even then, looking at your postings, the distillation temps are off a bit. If it was one thing when it went in the tanker...why is it different when it hit your planes?

You never did answer my question about the motor octane...MON/RON..where are they. If there is anything in the gas of significance...bet it will show up there...

Bottom line: What in the world is a reputable FBO doing conducing business like this?

Oh yeah, I've done fuels in a past life...
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OK Noobie..... This was cut and pasted from #78 post on this topic. It appears to be a quote from the newpaper...

"CITY BACKS OUT OF DEAL:

NEW BRAUNFELS — A hearing in the contentious battle between the city and its primary airport contractor was postponed Tuesday.
The sides, however, can't even agree on why it was canceled.
Larry Berkman, attorney for NB Aero, says the two sides will probably settle the case out of court. Allegations of improper handling of jet fuel would then be dismissed.
“We hope to have it resolved in another day or two,” he said. “I can't speak for the city, but I believe that all of the issues will be resolved in a few days.”
And Sam Adams, NB Aero co-owner, says the city is returning an impounded fuel truck, which is a sign the stalemate nears a conclusion.
But City Attorney Alan Wayland says none of that is accurate.
The city was granted a temporary restraining order against NB Aero, alleging that it mixed two types of fuel, which is illegal and dangerous. The injunction prohibited the company from selling fuel.
The postponement allows the city to gather more evidence, do more testing, and broaden the scope of its inquiry.
“Right now,” Wayland said, “there is no settlement. There is no pulling down of the TRO. It is extended until April 11.”
The impounded truck, Wayland says, will remain in city custody. Preliminary testing of the fuel indicates there was some mixing of non-aviation fuel, though he wouldn't release specific test results. The city fire marshal might be called in to assist, Wayland said, indicating a possible criminal investigation.
Adams has said his company wasn't selling mixed fuel nor was it hiding the delivery of it, as was alleged by the city in court documents. The company's fuel farm wasn't a danger to the environment or to the public, Adams said.
The shutdown of fueling has forced Adams to lay off 10 employees and close the fuel service. The loss of that revenue caused a shutdown of the airport cafe. Local pilots have rallied around him, accusing the city of attempting to run Adams out of business. Without NB Aero, the city would become the lone fuel provider at the airport.
Wayland has denied any sort of vendetta, explaining that inspectors were merely enforcing existing city, state and federal rules.
NB Aero's fuel farm remains out of compliance, he said, and there is no temporary storage facility, meaning NB Aero will remain on the sidelines.

CLICK BELOW, LOG IN. MAKE COMMENTS. "

So. the TRO was granted on the basis the fuel was contaminated, not mis labeled or had improper documentation.... Now the test /'s/ show the fuel was legal and safe..... care to explain why the city is not releasing the test results they claim was their initial reason for the TRO ? And the bigger question is why are you minimizing the bad fuel issue and now bringing up the improper documentation card ??? Smells like dead fish to me.

If the fuel was good , in my mind the FBO, NB should retrieve their fuel truck and start selling fuel.
Two can play that game....

IMHO.
 
Noobie said:
Okay, SCCutler...what have you seen here? Is that enough for you to gas up and fly your family on?

Fuel management at airports is simple...the bill of lading and rack slips all reference two things...the tank that the certificate of analysis was conducted on and the truck/shipping information. Gas goes from the tank farm to the FBO.

You don't have that here...maybe Chris or the FBO has it and are just sitting on it...but it aint here. And if it aint here, if an FBO is doing this, shouldn't pilots be concerned...is this really good for GA?
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There is absolutely no evidence to suggest there is a single issue with the fuel, or ever has been. In fact - everything I've seen indicates there isn't a problem. The burden of proof lies on the accuser - not the FBO. Has there been a single aircraft that had a safety issue related to the fuel quality? We pilots constantly buy fuel from random podunk airports all throughout the country. Very very few accidents are caused by poor fuel.

Based on the fact that there is no evidence present, and the only evidence available suggests there is absolutely no problem, I would happily fuel up with my family aboard...I suspect Spike would too.
 
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