Cherokee 6 / 300

[Henning]

It's funny I was looking at some Citations for sale last week, out of boredom, not shopping.
Anyway, you can buy a pretty nice I S/P with fresh hot sections for $400K, that gives you 1500+ hours to OH, assuming a scrap value of $100K. That's $200 per hour for the engine cost over the 1500 hours, you would still have maintenance issues, but the engines themselves wouldn't likely need much spent on them for the remainder of their useful life.
So you could fly a Citation to the junkyard for $400 per hour plus fuel.

Exactly. The most economic operations of any vehicle is the operations taking it to the junkyard. Those are the deals to look for. Since avionics are pretty much transportable, upgrades can be amortized into the replacement plane.

 

[Alexb2000]

got a guess how long the engine will run past TBO?
I'd probably not fly it 100 hours in the next 2 years.

Did you ask for opinions for real or just to put out some chum? Most all these threads are the same, someone asks for opinions that has already made up their mind. You are a mechanic, you are local, you can evaluate all that better than anyone here. Knowing that, I tried to offer you a perspective if I was looking at similar aircraft. Like I said, best of luck with it.

 

[Tom-D]

Did you ask for opinions for real or just to put out some chum? Most all these threads are the same, someone asks for opinions that has already made up their mind. You are a mechanic, you are local, you can evaluate all that better than anyone here. Knowing that, I tried to offer you a perspective if I was looking at similar aircraft. Like I said, best of luck with it.

I'm not your 6-300 expert, I ask because I have no idea the run time on the engine.

 

[Checkout_my_Six]

Inspect the inboard sections of the wings between the gear very carefully, that is the weak area I have seen in them for cracking sheet metal including ribs. There is also the bearings in the trim spool, if that falls apart, which it can, enough to cause problems, it can cause control issues. Outside of that, same as looking at any other plane.

no...there is more.

the fuel tanks can leak and need rebuilding - $3-4K

the fuel selector is a nightmare also...and could require sending out for OH. Most are not just o-ring replacements - $1-3K

corrosion can be an issue in the tail and behind the fuel tanks on the spar (spar AD).

Lycoming valve guides are crap....there's a 500 hr wobble test SB or AD can't recall?

other usual Cherokee related issues....yoke AD, switch AD, Bendix Mag ADs, landing gear torque link AD, fuel drain door AD, oiler cooler hose AD, loose seat AD, balance tube (elevator) AD, mufflers are prone to crack.

that's bout what I can remember for now....

BTW I actually owned one....and signed off the annual for a few years.

 

[German guy]

OK, it's only a 6/260, the bang for the buck is IMHO quite a bit better, though.
http://www.trade-a-plane.com/detail...Piston/1966/Piper/Cherokee+6_260/2050991.html

Year:1966
Manufacturer: Piper
Model:Cherokee 6/260
Price:$67,000.00
Location: Norfolk VA, USA
Airframe Total Time:5653
Engine Times: 679 SMOH
Prop Times: 354 SPOH

Custom modern 6 pack panel
Garmin 430W
Garmin 496 linked to G430 with XM weather.
Garmin GPSS steering
Garmin 327 transponder
King KX155 Navcomm coupled
King KI525 indicator/HIS
King indicator and glideslope (Nav #2)
King KN64 DME
King Audio panel with 3 lite marker beacon
Stec 30 auto pilot with hold
Shadin Fuel Flow
Second King Transponder, KT76A

 

[Henning]

OK, it's only a 6/260, the bang for the buck is IMHO quite a bit better, though.
http://www.trade-a-plane.com/detail...Piston/1966/Piper/Cherokee+6_260/2050991.html

Year:1966
Manufacturer: Piper
Model:Cherokee 6/260
Price:$67,000.00
Location: Norfolk VA, USA
Airframe Total Time:5653
Engine Times: 679 SMOH
Prop Times: 354 SPOH

Custom modern 6 pack panel
Garmin 430W
Garmin 496 linked to G430 with XM weather.
Garmin GPSS steering
Garmin 327 transponder
King KX155 Navcomm coupled
King KI525 indicator/HIS
King indicator and glideslope (Nav #2)
King KN64 DME
King Audio panel with 3 lite marker beacon
Stec 30 auto pilot with hold
Shadin Fuel Flow
Second King Transponder, KT76A

At $22k more, in Tom's situation, how is this more bang for the buck when it will do no more for him?

 

[Clark1961]

At $22k more, in Tom's situation, how is this more bang for the buck when it will do no more for him?

more salvage value at end of the day...

 

[Henning]

more salvage value at end of the day...

Not $22k more, it's not that nice. If he doesn't need IFR GPS avionics, he will not get the usage value out of the stuff since he can do better VFR with an iPad, or 796, and a GDL-39-3D.

 

[Checkout_my_Six]

At $22k more, in Tom's situation, how is this more bang for the buck when it will do no more for him?

cause when he's done with it....it won't be junk.

 

[Clark1961]

Not $22k more, it's not that nice. If he doesn't need IFR GPS avionics, he will not get the usage value out of the stuff since he can do better VFR with an iPad, or 796, and a GDL-39-3D.

may well be 22k more if he doesn't have to sell it as parts...

 

[Henning]

may well be 22k more if he doesn't have to sell it as parts...

You show me a plane that's not worth more as parts than flying. I see an extra $7 k there.

 

[Clark1961]

You show me a plane that's not worth more as parts than flying. I see an extra $7 k there.

did ya notice that the engine wasn't run out?

 

[RyanB]

At $22k more, in Tom's situation, how is this more bang for the buck when it will do no more for him?

Also has a lower time engine, overhaul alone on an IO-540 is probably in the range of 20k

 

[Henning]

did ya notice that the engine wasn't run out?

Irrelevant at salvage in a few years, it will be valued run out as well.

 

[Henning]

Also has a lower time engine, overhaul alone on an IO-540 is probably in the range of 20k

No relevance to Tom. The engine can explode tomorrow and he can replace it for less than $22k. Tom is not in the same situation as the typical aircraft owner. His maint expenses are parts only. You can find a low/mid time pull out for <$17k

 

[Zeldman]

Tom, don't do it. I don't think you can fly one of those new fangled nose wheel jobbies!

Also, for what it's worth, you've heard of the 30 in Alaska that are being retired after the FAA shutdown L.A.B. Flying service.

http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archives/avflash/1179-printable.html

Stick around, you can have a fleet of old Six's!

In July 2008, Alaska Public Media reported that the FAA had grounded LAB's entire fleet, because, in their words, "LAB Flying Service lacks the care, judgment and responsibility required to hold an air carrier certificate." One of the seven counts listed in the grounding order stated that LAB mechanics took an engine off of an airplane that had been destroyed in a fire with temperatures in excess of 2,000 degrees Fahrenheit and re-mounted it on another airplane, intending to put it back into service. [3] LAB's website and email system turned off August 26, 2008.

I think these planes are long gone by now.

 

[Clark1961]

Irrelevant at salvage in a few years, it will be valued run out as well.

very relevant since Tom has said that he doesn't plan to fly much

 

[Tom-D]

At $22k more, in Tom's situation, how is this more bang for the buck when it will do no more for him?

That's just it, who needs more bang for the bucks?

 

[Tmcdavitt]

for a $45K purchase?.....crazy money.

my old Six recently resold.....it had ~4,000TT, a GNS 430W, wing leveler, nice leather interior, and a 600hr factory engine......for $53K ($20K below where I sold it).

Dang! That sounds like it was a great deal!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

[Checkout_my_Six]

That's just it, who needs more bang for the bucks?

so....what's the delta in scrap value....vs airworthy value?...for this deal vs others?

I bet the scrap value is less than $25K....that's a $20K loss right there.

Buy the other one.....and re-sell it for what you paid in a few years.

 

[Checkout_my_Six]

Dang! That sounds like it was a great deal!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

you tell us?.....

BTW....you did well.

 

[Henning]

very relevant since Tom has said that he doesn't plan to fly much

In 5 years it will value at run out regardless of the hours. While people may not consider the 12 year TBO when flying, they do when buying.

 

[Tom-D]

You show me a plane that's not worth more as parts than flying. I see an extra $7 k there.

There are lots of projects lying around. total aircraft for 5k

 

[Tom-D]

Talked to the owner today, they are going to put into rental at a local club hoping the insurance company will pay full price .

That will actually be better for me, I can rent it when needed.

 

[German guy]

At $22k more, in Tom's situation, how is this more bang for the buck when it will do no more for him?

Well, as others have said, what do you think would be the scrap value of the plane Tom was looking at? With old avionics and a high time airframe and engine? Tom wasn't very specific, when he stated that he want to 'fly the snot out of it', but in any case the risk is relatively high, that some significant repairs costs (along with frustration) have occurred until he finally recognizes that the plane is a money sink and that the best solution is to scrap it. He would then have to take the hit for the loss of value and the very most of the expenses for repair costs would also be wasted.

IMHO, when it come to planes, 'cheap' tends become 'very expensive' very quickly. Frankly, I am glad to see that somebody else bought the plane.

 

[jesse]

Well, as others have said, what do you think would be the scrap value of the plane Tom was looking at? With old avionics and a high time airframe and engine? Tom wasn't very specific, when he stated that he want to 'fly the snot out of it', but in any case the risk is relatively high, that some significant repairs costs (along with frustration) have occurred until he finally recognizes that the plane is a money sink and that the best solution is to scrap it. He would then have to take the hit for the loss of value and the very most of the expenses for repair costs would also be wasted.

IMHO, when it come to planes, 'cheap' tends become 'very expensive' very quickly. Frankly, I am glad to see that somebody else bought the plane.

If you turn your own wrenches and know how to find parts cheap then it's very viable.

 

[Tom-D]

I am glad to see that somebody else bought the plane.

No, It's just a lease back.

 

[Checkout_my_Six]

If you turn your own wrenches and know how to find parts cheap then it's very viable.

That works if you like laying under them....more than being in them.

 

[Henning]

That works if you like laying under them....more than being in them.

That is also true regardless what you pay. Paying $100k more does not keep you out of problems.

 

[JoseCuervo]

It makes sense because he doesn't NEED all that crap and doesn't want to pay for it.



Believe it or not, not everyone is into all the latest and greatest equipment (read EXPENSIVE). A basic VFR flyer with one radio and a transponder is more than enough for most people.

I can't figure out how to get my panel switch to turn my 2nd radio into the headset. 8 months without using it, and counting.

 

[Tom-D]

I flew the 6/300 today, It is totally foreign to me, I hadn't been flying since 34V left, so I was very rusty. With a new to me aircraft, it was like being a new student.

I was impressed with the aircraft, It lacks cosmetics, but all systems were working, and the carrying capacity is awesome. with 2 aboard, less than half fuel, I saw climb rates at 1300+ feet per minute. It's very docile does what it's told, and a very stable plate form.

What really was an eye catcher was how high above the horizon that long nose gets on take off at 1300'+
And how long it will float, I guess that gets shorter with practice.

This old aircraft needs a lot of TLC, but not much more to get 4-500 hours flying. It will be coming on line at BVS as a 6 pax rental. Soon I hope.

 

[Tom-D]

Well, as others have said, what do you think would be the scrap value of the plane Tom was looking at? Who cares, it won't get scrapped With old avionics and a high time airframe and engine? ASlong as they work use them.Tom wasn't very specific, when he stated that he want to 'fly the snot out of it',To me? that's 25 hours per year. but in any case the risk is relatively high, that some significant repairs costs (along with frustration) have occurred until he finally recognizes that the plane is a money sink and that the best solution is to scrap it. He would then have to take the hit for the loss of value and the very most of the expenses for repair costs would also be wasted.

IMHO, when it come to planes, 'cheap' tends become 'very expensive' very quickly. Frankly, I am glad to see that somebody else bought the plane.

If it goes 200 more hours it wouldn't be me scrapping it 15 years from now.

 

[Henning]

If you fly "the numbers" in a Six with a light load, you will definitely float You can typically slow down 10 knots with 2 up and less than half fuel. Do a stall horn speed check at the top of final to determine your target speed at the bottom.

The long nose does take some getting used to, it's almost the view from the back of a Cub on a good landing. The nose typically tags in a pretty high sight picture.

Hmmm, a rental 6 in the PNW..., that could be useful. Any thoughts on the rate?

 

[Greg Bockelman]

This thread is useless without pictures. LOL

 

[Tom-D]

If you fly "the numbers" in a Six with a light load, you will definitely float You can typically slow down 10 knots with 2 up and less than half fuel.

The long nose does take some getting used to, it's almost the view from the back of a Cub on a good landing. The nose typically tags in a pretty high sight picture.

Hmmm, a rental 6 in the PNW..., that could be useful. Any thoughts on the rate?

Now you are the authority on the 6 too?

 

[Henning]

Now you are the authority on the 6 too?

270 some hours in them, my first flying job.

 

[Checkout_my_Six]

Now you are the authority on the 6 too?

.....

 

[Tom-D]

270 some hours in them, my first flying job.

show us your log book entries. really easy to do these days.

 

[Tom-D]

This thread is useless without pictures. LOL

The aircraft pictures are in the Ad at T-A-P

Today I was too self absorbed to think of pictures.

But I did get two safe landings.

 

[Greg Bockelman]

The aircraft pictures are in the Ad at T-A-P

So they are.