Cherokee 6/300 - overhaul and IFR update worth it?

Discussion in 'Hangar Talk' started by Buck Rizvi, Oct 1, 2017.

  1. Buck Rizvi

    Buck Rizvi Filing Flight Plan

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    Hello,

    I'm considering purchasing a very low-time Cherokee 6/300 with an engine that's just past it's TBO.

    2 newbie questions:

    1. What is the average cost to overhaul a 6/300?

    2. I'd also like to install a Garmin 430W for GPS IFR. What might this cost if I source used equipment?

    I'm weighing the +/-'s of buying a low-time aircraft that's in good shape, but needs updating vs. a much higher time (2x+) airframe that already has updates.

    Thanks in advance for your help!

    Buck in Boulder
     
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  2. BillTIZ

    BillTIZ En-Route

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    Can't speak to the radios, but while going with a used 430W, also consider the ADS-B out requirements and transponder upgrade to handle that. A 430W cannot display ADSB in data. So now you may be looking at a GTN650?

    What engine is in the 6/300? Lyc 0-540 or IO-540? 30K or more plus R&R labor (remove and install)?
     
  3. Clark1961

    Clark1961 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Welcome to POA. Can’t help much with the questions. Can talk about good shops for avionics work in Colorado if you are in Boulder CO.
     
  4. hindsight2020

    hindsight2020 Pattern Altitude

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    6/300 is the IO-540 300HP angle valve. aka the spendy cylinders, like my Arrow. But at least they're real cylinders, not tinker toy paper mache conti jugs. :D

    The six 300s also benefit from having single mags, as opposed to the Lances that only got certified with the siamese mag.

    Me? I'd go for the higher airframe sample with the goodies pre-installed.
     
  5. Checkout_my_Six

    Checkout_my_Six Final Approach

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    I'd pass....and buy one with a mid time engine with the panel you want. I'd guess a factory new engine is going to be north of $40K and the 430W will be $5K plus install (~$6,500).....and most of that will not be recoverable should you need to sell.
     
  6. catmandu

    catmandu Line Up and Wait

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    Pass. Low-time aircraft in need of work are not valuable, to me anyway. A well cared for high airframe time and mid engine time aircraft with proper avionics is what you want if you are looking for a deal.
     
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  7. ktup-flyer

    ktup-flyer Pattern Altitude

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    Agreed. My 182 has 11,000 hours on it and you’d never know it even had half of that.
     
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  8. GRG55

    GRG55 En-Route

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    I agree with this observation, and this is what I would do.

    However, if one is looking for a "project plane" a sound, low time, zero-damage airframe is probably preferable. Engines and props can be overhauled or replaced, avionics can be upgraded, paint and interiors can be redone, but airframe time and airframe damage is permanent on the record. But now that airplane values are not reliably inflating like they used to, a project plane is almost certainly not a rational economic proposition.
     
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  9. swingwing

    swingwing Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I could not agree more. Old low time airplanes probably have seen many years of neglect. I cringe every time I see a hanger queen come out of hiding once a year for its annual
     
  10. Ken Ibold

    Ken Ibold Final Approach

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    I once bought a neglected Mooney M20J. Crappy avionics, crappy paint, crappy interior, leaky tanks, neglected mx, but low time. As you might expect, I got back some, but by no means all, of the money I'd put into the upgrades. But that's OK because it was MY airplane when I owned it. The fact that I'd made it exactly what I wanted is what made the effort worthwhile.

    Bottom line: Update/upgrade that old Cherokee Six if you want, but do it because you want to. Do not for a moment think it will be a financial wash.
     
  11. Stewartb

    Stewartb En-Route

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    Updating to your specs and preferences is a good plan if you expect to keep the plane. Engine overhaul expense depends on what you have and what you want to end up with. You should be able to have it overhauled to new tolerances for under $25K. Maybe less. Avionics are changing quickly so anything any of us does is going to be outdated in a few years. That doesn't make what you want any less functional than it is on the day you install it, but something better WILL come out later. If adding a new radio triggers a complete new panel? The budget depends on you. $30-40K is easy to spend on a panel but with the new approvals coming out of Dynon and Garmin the panel costs are coming down. Beware, when you add a new shiny toy in your panel the rest of the appliances look old. The key to maintaining a budget is discipline. Or lack of money! :)
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2017
  12. Buck Rizvi

    Buck Rizvi Filing Flight Plan

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    Hi BillTIZ, It's an IO-540-K1A5. I'm getting quotes in the $33K - $48K range, depending on whether it's overhauled or new cylinders.

    Buck
     
  13. Buck Rizvi

    Buck Rizvi Filing Flight Plan

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    I'm all ears! Currently working with Western Plains Aviation in Greeley, CO.

    Buck
     
  14. Buck Rizvi

    Buck Rizvi Filing Flight Plan

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    Amen, Ken. That's my plan. The plane sailed through the pre-buy at a shop I selected. A little corrosion in the cylinders, which was expected because it's been sitting in the hangar. Moving ahead with the overhaul, so not an issue.
     
  15. Buck Rizvi

    Buck Rizvi Filing Flight Plan

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    Hi Stewartb, Completely agree! Buck
     
  16. murphey

    murphey Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    Depot avionics in Alamosa. Talk to Mark.
     
  17. murphey

    murphey Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    What shop for the overhaul?
     
  18. Ravioli

    Ravioli En-Route PoA Supporter

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    Except for the fact that it does display 8 targets of ADS-B and TIS-B traffic and also Regional NEXRAD, CONUS NEXRAD, METARs, and TAFs via FIS-B... when coupled with a compatible transponder like the GTX 345.
     
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  19. Buck Rizvi

    Buck Rizvi Filing Flight Plan

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    Hi Murphey,

    Looking at Aircraft Cylinders & Engines in Greeley, CO.

    Buck
     
  20. Buck Rizvi

    Buck Rizvi Filing Flight Plan

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    Thanks, Murphey!
     
  21. Buck Rizvi

    Buck Rizvi Filing Flight Plan

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    Hey Catmandu,

    Thanks for the feedback! Based on the report from the shop performing the pre-buy, I am moving ahead (and crossing my fingers).

    Buck
     
  22. Clark1961

    Clark1961 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I agree that Depot is a good suggestion. They stand behind their work.

    Haven’t had any work done by Western Plains. How are they to work with?
     
  23. murphey

    murphey Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    Is that Joe's company name?
     
  24. Buck Rizvi

    Buck Rizvi Filing Flight Plan

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    I dropped by Steve McIntire's shop in Greeley while his team was performing the pre-buy. He's recently expanded his hangar (possible sign of a growing business) and the parking slots were filled with his Western Plains logo'ed truck and his tech's cars.

    Steve greeted me wearing a Western Plains uniform (I like a guy who takes pride in his shop) and promptly gave me the tour. The expanded hangar was completely full and there were 4-5 techs busily working away. The old saying of "if you want something done, give it to the busiest person" may hold true here.

    The shop was spotless with no tools lying around. Steve and I are both ex-military and it seems that he's instilled good discipline and camaraderie. I was there around lunch time and noticed that all of the techs sat together during lunch and talked shop.

    Phone, email and text communication with Steve have been very good throughout the process.

    Other than the pre-buy, I've not had any substantive work done by Steve's shop yet, but I'm seriously considering it.
     
  25. Buck Rizvi

    Buck Rizvi Filing Flight Plan

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    Yes.
     
  26. NLPinson

    NLPinson Filing Flight Plan

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    DNT Avionics at Grand Junction Regional Airport is a great place to get your avionics upgrades. 40 years experience.
     
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