Checkrides and Instrument Currency

Fearless Tower

Fearless Tower

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Does a checkride reset the clock on Instrument Currency?

FAR 61.57 doesn't really seem to address checkrides (specifies either do the 6 approaches etc or IPC), but I do distinctly remember my examiner during my Instrument ride telling me that the checkride starts the counter ticking for currency.

Reason I ask is this:

I did my initial commercial checkride a couple months ago in the twin. Going into the ride, I had a VFR only limitation on my multi cert. Did the hood work and single engine approach on the ride and the examiner endorsed the logbook as 'commercial multi instrument checkride completed satisfactorily'.

So, is my instrument currency 6 months from the date of that ride, or just continuing rolling approach counter?
 
i don't think so. i think you either need 6 approaches and whatever or an IPC in the last 6 months
 
I don't think so either, unless there's language somewhere that taking an instrument checkride (which you did when you added the instrument privileges to your MEL rating) that ISN'T your initial instrument rating counts.
 
is there language that the initial instrument rating counts?
 
dmccormack said:
You're not on any clock before you pass the checkride.
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yea, but you are after the checkride.

does taking a private pilot checkride reset currency for carrying passengers? what if you don't do 3 t/o's and landings no the checkride? what about night currency?
 
tonycondon said:
yea, but you are after the checkride.

does taking a private pilot checkride reset currency for carrying passengers? what if you don't do 3 t/o's and landings no the checkride? what about night currency?
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You had no passenger carrying privileges until you passed the checkride.

So how can you "reset currency?" :confused:
 
dan i'm not talking about currency before the checkride. we're talking about life after a checkride

the currency regs are "look back" regulations. why can't you "look back" to before a checkride to satisfy currency requirements?
 
tonycondon said:
dan i'm not talking about currency before the checkride. we're talking about life after a checkride

the currency regs are "look back" regulations. why can't you "look back" to before a checkride to satisfy currency requirements?
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Right -- and the language is ambiguous (Surprise!)

But why can't you?

Sec. 61.57

Recent flight experience: Pilot in command.

(a) General experience. (1) Except as provided in paragraph (e) of this section, no person may act as a pilot in command of an aircraft carrying passengers or of an aircraft certificated for more than one pilot flight crewmember unless that person has made at least three takeoffs and three landings within the preceding 90 days, and--

(i) The person acted as the sole manipulator of the flight controls; and

(ii) The required takeoffs and landings were performed in an aircraft of the same category, class, and type (if a type rating is required), and, if the aircraft to be flown is an airplane with a tailwheel, the takeoffs and landings must have been made to a full stop in an airplane with a tailwheel.

(2) For the purpose of meeting the requirements of paragraph (a)(1) of this section, a person may act as a pilot in command of an aircraft under day VFR or day IFR, provided no persons or property are carried on board the aircraft, other than those necessary for the conduct of the flight.
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exactly and whether or not that experience was gained before or after a checkride doesnt matter.

i asked whether it is said anywhere that taking an instrument checkride resets the clock for instrument currency (like an IPC).
 
tonycondon said:
yea, but you are after the checkride.

does taking a private pilot checkride reset currency for carrying passengers? what if you don't do 3 t/o's and landings no the checkride? what about night currency?
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I'd say, unless you have an interrupted checkride for PP, you're going to get your 3 t/o and 3 landings during it. I'd say you need to look back to your last 3 night full-stop landings for night-currency.

For instrument...is your checkride an IPC? IPC and Checkride are defined in the same PTS, so I would think that completing a checkride, which necessarily includes the same elements as an IPC, would count as an IPC...but don't quote me on that.
 
I would certainly hope that the instrument checkride counts as an IPC, and that's what I've assumed. After all, you are being certified that you performed to PTS standards. Isn't that the point of an IPC?
 
Fearless Tower said:
Does a checkride reset the clock on Instrument Currency?

FAR 61.57 doesn't really seem to address checkrides (specifies either do the 6 approaches etc or IPC), but I do distinctly remember my examiner during my Instrument ride telling me that the checkride starts the counter ticking for currency.

Reason I ask is this:

I did my initial commercial checkride a couple months ago in the twin. Going into the ride, I had a VFR only limitation on my multi cert. Did the hood work and single engine approach on the ride and the examiner endorsed the logbook as 'commercial multi instrument checkride completed satisfactorily'.

So, is my instrument currency 6 months from the date of that ride, or just continuing rolling approach counter?
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A commercial checkride is a VFR ride (even if it contains hoodwork). It doesn't contain even the number of Instrument PTS tasks tasks required for an IPC. (BTW, an instrument checkride or IPC does reset the clock)

For those who think this is a bit vague, I'm very curious: exactly what in the wording of 61.57 do you think is susceptible to the interpretation that a commercial checkride resets the instrument currency clock? I really can't see it.
 
i'm trying to figure out what in the wording of 61.57 says that an instrument checkride resets the instrument currency clock.
 
tonycondon said:
i'm trying to figure out what in the wording of 61.57 says that an instrument checkride resets the instrument currency clock.
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(d) Instrument proficiency check. Except as provided in paragraph (e) of this section, a person who does not meet the instrument experience requirements of paragraph (c) of this section within the 12 calendar months preceding the month of the flight may not serve as pilot in command under IFR or in weather conditions less than the minimums prescribed for VFR until having passed an instrument proficiency check that consists of the areas of operation and instrument tasks required in the instrument rating practical test standards.
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Does the Instrument Rating checkride not "consist of the areas of operation and instrument tasks required in the instrument rating practical test standards"?
 
sure but unless the examiner signs off an IPC does it count?
 
azure said:
I would certainly hope that the instrument checkride counts as an IPC, and that's what I've assumed. After all, you are being certified that you performed to PTS standards. Isn't that the point of an IPC?
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IIRC that widely held belief was deemed incorrect by a FAA Chief Counsel ruling some years ago although common sense (i.e. non-FAA thinking) says that since an IPC requires a pilot to perform to PTS standards, a passed checkride ought to count as an IPC. But for most pilots the point should be moot since it's very likely that you performed the required tasks for experience based IR currency during the checkride and your preparation for the ride in the week before. I'm pretty certain that any holding, tracking, and approach flying done prior to passing the checkride can be used to meet the 6 month (and 12 month) currency clock once you're rated.

Edit: I found the CC opinion and I was wrong, this one's completely logical. The opinion says the clock starts the day you pass the IR checkride.


http://tinyurl.com/checkrideVSipc
 
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gismo said:
IIRC that widely held belief was deemed incorrect by a FAA Chief Counsel ruling some years ago although common sense (i.e. non-FAA thinking) says that since an IPC requires a pilot to perform to PTS standards, a passed checkride ought to count as an IPC. But for most pilots the point should be moot since it's very likely that you performed the required tasks for experience based IR currency during the checkride and your preparation for the ride in the week before. I'm pretty certain that any holding, tracking, and approach flying done prior to passing the checkride can be used to meet the 6 month (and 12 month) currency clock once you're rated.

Edit: I found the CC opinion and I was wrong, this one's completely logical. The opinion says the clock starts the day you pass the IR checkride.


http://tinyurl.com/checkrideVSipc
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OK...so now when you send in letters asking for interpretations, you know who to request:

This response was prepared by Carol Hattrup, Attorney in the Regulations Division of the Chief Counsel
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Someone who actually looks at the regs logically!
 
I dont think simply taking a commercial checkride in a twin resets instrument currency. Why should it? In order to get VFR only removed, it probalby only requires a single approach. Not near enough to prove your instrument currency/skills. If you did holding patterns, nav radio/vor tracking, and 6 approaches, sure it would.

Unless you and your examiner specifically did an IPC along with the commercial checkride (do they do that? ever?), I say no. If you were
able to meet your currency requirements on the checkride, sure, why not.

Originally Posted by azure
I would certainly hope that the instrument checkride counts as an IPC, and that's what I've assumed. After all, you are being certified that you performed to PTS standards. Isn't that the point of an IPC?
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You might be surprised. For initial Ground Instructor currency, simply passing all the required writtens and turning them into the FSDO and getting your certificate isnt enough. For initial currency, you still have to have an instructor say you are proficient, which in my opinion is retarded if you just passed all the exams and got your certificate....
 
JeffDG said:
OK...so now when you send in letters asking for interpretations, you know who to request:



Someone who actually looks at the regs logically!
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What fun would getting logical interpretations be? I for one, enjoy seeing shady/irrational reasons to arrive at a logical answer which I agree with. HA! :crazy:
 
ajstoner21 said:
You might be surprised. For initial Ground Instructor currency, simply passing all the required writtens and turning them into the FSDO and getting your certificate isnt enough. For initial currency, you still have to have an instructor say you are proficient, which in my opinion is retarded if you just passed all the exams and got your certificate....
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I agree but that's what the Counsel told me. And in another way it makes sense - there's no check of your ability to TEACH with the ground instructor certificate on it's own. There IS a test of this ability with the CFI.

And back on topic - I believe that a ride to add instrument privileges (whether it's the initial ride or adding on a new category or class) should cover the PTS tasks - My multi ride with instrument had two approaches (one precision, one non precision) and some other basic instrument elements. But I am not sure that this would count to reset currency.
 
TMetzinger said:
And back on topic - I believe that a ride to add instrument privileges (whether it's the initial ride or adding on a new category or class) should cover the PTS tasks - My multi ride with instrument had two approaches (one precision, one non precision) and some other basic instrument elements. But I am not sure that this would count to reset currency.
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Actually if you are adding a multi-engine land class rating to your commercial certificate and hold an instrument rating, then you need only demonstrate a single engine instrument approach which does not cover all PTS tasks to meet the requirements of an IPC.
 
TMetzinger said:
I agree but that's what the Counsel told me. And in another way it makes sense - there's no check of your ability to TEACH with the ground instructor certificate on it's own. There IS a test of this ability with the CFI..
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Thats true - I guess there isn't a test on how well you actually teach.

TMetzinger said:
And back on topic - I believe that a ride to add instrument privileges (whether it's the initial ride or adding on a new category or class) should cover the PTS tasks - My multi ride with instrument had two approaches (one precision, one non precision) and some other basic instrument elements. But I am not sure that this would count to reset currency.
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I think those approaches definitely count towards currency, but I dont think they reset currency solely because it was on a checkride unless you luckily had 4 approaches before then :dunno:
 
HPNPilot1200 said:
Actually if you are adding a multi-engine land class rating to your commercial certificate and hold an instrument rating, then you need only demonstrate a single engine instrument approach which does not cover all PTS tasks to meet the requirements of an IPC.
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Not when I took my ride - we had to do two approaches, one with two engines and one with one.
 
TMetzinger said:
Not when I took my ride - we had to do two approaches, one with two engines and one with one.
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Interesting. The Commercial PTS with changes 1 & 2 dated August 2002 only requires one instrument approach with one engine inoperative if you already hold an instrument rating (if you don't want a VFR restricted commercial multi certificate).
 
tonycondon said:
does taking a private pilot checkride reset currency for carrying passengers? what if you don't do 3 t/o's and landings no the checkride?
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Since you have to do at least three takeoffs and landings to complete a PP-Airplane practical test, the question is moot.

what about night currency?
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Did you do the PP practical test at night?
 
Ron Levy said:
Since you have to do at least three takeoffs and landings to complete a PP-Airplane practical test, the question is moot.
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For the most part, yes...but what if you get most of your PP ride done, and the weather deteriorates, and you come out a couple weeks later to get that one short-field landing knocked out...angels on a pinhead...but...
 
Greg Bockelman said:
I didn't demonstrate ANY approaches on my ME ride.
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Curious, was that for a ME-IA rating, or just a VFR ME rating with the instrument add-on later? Understanding this was some years later, my ME ride was basically take off, put the foggles on, kill an engine, go do a few approaches, then take the hood off and do stalls, etc.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
Curious, was that for a ME-IA rating, or just a VFR ME rating with the instrument add-on later? Understanding this was some years later, my ME ride was basically take off, put the foggles on, kill an engine, go do a few approaches, then take the hood off and do stalls, etc.
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Back in the day you didn't need to perform any instrument tasks for the initial ME rating. This changed just prior to the time I took the ME checkride because I remember it being a new requirement at the time.
 
Everskyward said:
Back in the day you didn't need to perform any instrument tasks for the initial ME rating. This changed just prior to the time I took the ME checkride because I remember it being a new requirement at the time.
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I suspect that this was due to the majority of pilots going for the AMEL before getting their IR in the "good ol days".
 
gismo said:
I suspect that this was due to the majority of pilots going for the AMEL before getting their IR in the "good ol days".
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I thought they changed it because they thought pilots ought to be able to demonstrate instrument proficiency on one engine (of two) which is at least to some degree more difficult than when both engines are running or when you have only one engine on the airplane.
 
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