Checkride: Will you know what the approaches are beforehand?

Bonchie

Bonchie

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Bonchie
Obviously, you'll have your approach that's part of the flight plan you made. But do DPE's usually tell you pre-flight what the other two will be so you can study them and have the plates sorted?
 
I don't remember mine giving me any approach info until I showed up. Oral took so long I flew the majority of the ride at night. Of course it didn't help that the PA-28 I got at the last minute has no AP, no IFR GPS and crappy lighting. I jumped thru hoops and made it happen.:)
 
I pretty much knew what approaches my DPE liked. We did one that o never did before but it was a GPS approach so it wasn't too difficult.
 
I got the approaches before the ride, just asked the DPE what plates I should print up.

Frankly it's real world, you don't launch into IMC with no idea about where you're heading.
 
There are 4 possibilities here:
1. The DPE may let you pick them yourself as long as they meet the requirements. I've seen this happen.
2. The DPE may always use the same approaches with every applicant, so you can easily talk to previous checkridees.
3. The DPE does (IMO) a good job of switching them up each checkride so you have to be prepared for anything.
4. Given the equipment on the plane and the approaches at surrounding airports, you may very well be able to figure out at least one or two of them beforehand even without talking to anybody. (For example, if you don't have GPS or DME, and there is only one VOR approach nearby that doesn't need DME, you can bet you'll be flying it).

So in 3 of those 4, you should be able to figure out at least some of the approaches.
 
I wasn't told until we got in the plane and I asked what airports we were going to use so I could paper clip them which was my standard procedure. I didn't much need to review them because I had flown them all that week.:lol:
 
My DPE didn't make up his mind on which approaches he wanted- hell, which airports he wanted- until we were in the airplane. (Granted, he wasn't from the area and I was his first IR checkride here.) It rattled me a bit when I ended up having to fly an approach I'd never done before. To make matters more fun, this was the one he decided to make partial panel, less than a mile from the IAF.
 
James331 said:
Frankly it's real world, you don't launch into IMC with no idea about where you're heading.
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While I certainly can't argue with that statement, I'd prefer the DPE not reveal all the approaches to be used prior to the checkride. Maybe one or two, but to me it's important to make sure the applicant can react to and fly an unplanned approach as well. Therefore simulating a runway closure, wind shift changing runways, ATC assigning runway 17L instead of 17R, equipment outage either in the airplane or on the ground, diversions, etc.
 
RussR said:
While I certainly can't argue with that statement, I'd prefer the DPE not reveal all the approaches to be used prior to the checkride. Maybe one or two, but to me it's important to make sure the applicant can react to and fly an unplanned approach as well. Therefore simulating a runway closure, wind shift changing runways, ATC assigning runway 17L instead of 17R, equipment outage either in the airplane or on the ground, diversions, etc.
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You mean like happened IRL in my IFR cross country?

I planned an ILS, and it was refused. Instead, I got a non precision RNAV in the opposite direction.

That sure made it fun.
 
Most won't tell you ahead, but sometimes the instructor learns from other students before you.

To some degree, it's dependent on the plane's equipment. But you will get a precision approach (most likely ILS, if none nearby and you have WAAS, you'll get a GPS precision). When I did mine, it was pre-WAAS, but I'd pulled the ADF from the plane. So I got an ILS (at LUK), the back course to the ILS at LUK, and a VOR circling approach at the home field.
 
I had an ILS into Torrence, NDB into LGB that he had me fly level at 3000',mother a Partial Panel VOR into LGB in actual; the marine layer had rolled in during the ride. Approaching the VOR he told me to take off my Foggles, I thought I had busted, but saw that the gear was at the top of the clouds. He said "I cannot make you shoot this approach,met he regs are clear about Day VFR. You've done fine so far, if you wan, I'll take it, and we can finish up tomorrow, all you need is this approach, it'll be 15 minutes. OR... you can decide to continue the approach and if we come out the bottom right de up with the runway somewhere in front of us, you've got your ticket." Right about then we got to the VOR so I just did the T's and went for it. Around 1000' he pulled the sticky notes of the gyros, "enough of that" and we broke out around 800' with the runway right where it was supposed to be.
 
Bonchie said:
Obviously, you'll have your approach that's part of the flight plan you made. But do DPE's usually tell you pre-flight what the other two will be so you can study them and have the plates sorted?
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The expected approach is NOT part of the flight plan. That said, instrument approach design is all based on a few variations of the same thing. The numbers are just different, if you've flown approaches of the various designs you should be able to fly any of 'em.
 
Mine told me which approaches we were doing when he saw me tabbing all the local airports in the approach book. No harm in asking him.
 
The examiner told me after the oral and before the flight which approaches we would do for both my instrument and my CFII checkride (different examiners).
 
I asked the examiner if he would tell me which approaches we would do so I could paper clip them to make them easy to find. He told me that I should know the requirements in the PTS so tell him how I wanted to conduct the flight in order to meet all of the requirements. I got to choose the approaches and the order that everything was done.
 
My DPE was forthcoming about the approaches I would fly, including the order and which one would be partial panel. There were still a couple of surprises on the ride, but none as regards the approaches to be flown.
 
I was told the airports but not the specific approaches. We chatted ahead of time about my equipment and he did tell me the type of approaches that we would be doing...but not which approach at which airport.

I asked during debrief why he didn't provide the approaches so that I could be more prepared rather than scrambling in the air. His response: Well sometimes things don't go as prepared so you have to be able to be ready for anything.

Sure enough...on my third ever IFR flight post ticket...destination did not rise above mins as forecast...diverted to closest Charlie airport next door that was above mins...set up for a new approach in the soup...then ATC turned the airport around...yet another approach to brief...I then understood his point.
 
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Mine told me during the oral that I could pick whatever I wanted as long as one of them was non-precision. Said I could use Auto-Pilot on 1 approach and fly the other two and I got to choose it all... Down in Vero Beach, FL.

The oral was a lot tougher than the flight.. The guy never flew a Cirrus and he "stopped" the test twice to hand fly the plane - fine by me!
 
I knew where we would probably go, which changed that morning (final destination was not where we started). I was familiar with the. Ew place, had been there VFR many times and shot a few practice approaches, so it wasn't totally new. Did a circle to land there.

For the checkride, you should be at peak proficiency. A change or two shouldn't bother you at all. I'd rather visit someplace else than just do three laps around the Class Charlie anyway. Final airport was uncontrolled, with a little hill preventing a rectangular pattern--turn from downwind about 135° and aim just before the numbers, otherwise you'll be underground. Easy 3150 x 30 field with a turn around at each end.
 
My IR DPE told me he wanted two precision one non precision...or something close to that...didn't care where or which ones...

I had flown them ALL the day before...two or three times...
 
An approach is a procedure. And a procedure is a procedure.
Focus on the working parts of the procedure so ANY can quickly be digested (literally in a few moments) . As an instructor, for check-ride prep I would always intentionally insert something I knew for a fact a student hadn’t prepared for just to get that point across. (Like an emergency)..With all that said, I’m all for preparation and expectations so go over every piece of gouge you can find on your DPE and take it as Gospel (along with all the remote possibilities) the Devil is always within the details in the check environment .
 
We hit up the examiner with the guise of making an introduction and inquiring of his weight for the W&B and if he wanted me to do anything in prep for the ride. Technically, you're supposed to do all that stuff (flight planning) in front of the examiner, but every one I've ever scene will tell you to plan it out in advance. You most likely should expect not to be going to the destination you planned (way too far away especially if you believe the FAA requirement to do it at the max aircraft range which in my plane is 800 miles or so away depending on what reserves are). Nearly every approach near your departure point is likely especially at the field you depart from.

In my case we did all the approaches at the departure field (and I'd flown them all before in practice).

I did an IPC once where the instructor worked off the table in the PTS and just told me to fly whatever I wanted so long as it hit all the tasks on the list.
 
I was told what approaches to expect during my oral. I was given an RNAV GPS approach but he told me for that one he wanted me to do the NON-precision approach. It had an LPV as well as a LNAV. I was given another ILS as the precision approach. When the time came to do that approach , due to nervousness or whatever I started to fly it as the LPV (the plane I was using had WAAS) and at some point when the DPE realized what I was doing he shouted (yes shouted :lol: ) "What the hell are you doing?" I told him the LPV... He said "I told you back on the ground I want you to do the non-precision approach!" He didn't bust me, he let me do it again. Good lesson for me! During all my practices I had never done the LNAV approach at this particular airport since it had the LPV. I had done LNAV approaches at other airports. So watch out for that too.
 
narchee said:
I was told what approaches to expect during my oral. I was given an RNAV GPS approach but he told me for that one he wanted me to do the NON-precision approach. It had an LPV as well as a LNAV. I was given another ILS as the precision approach. When the time came to do that approach , due to nervousness or whatever I started to fly it as the LPV (the plane I was using had WAAS) and at some point when the DPE realized what I was doing he shouted (yes shouted :lol: ) "What the hell are you doing?" I told him the LPV... He said "I told you back on the ground I want you to do the non-precision approach!" He didn't bust me, he let me do it again. Good lesson for me! During all my practices I had never done the LNAV approach at this particular airport since it had the LPV. I had done LNAV approaches at other airports. So watch out for that too.
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That's a good point, I had the same situation. My 3 approaches were all at KFNT: the ILS 27, the VOR 27, and the RNAV (GPS) 18, which has LPV minimums but he specifically wanted me to fly it as a non-precision approach. It is sheer luck that I didn't make the same mistake you did, since right after the partial panel VOR 27 is when I accidentally flipped my Sandel into map mode and needed a couple of minutes to figure out how to get it back into HSI mode. I was somewhat flustered and wondered if he would bust me for the mistake, but did manage to remember to NOT intercept the GS.

They have quite a bit of latitude in how much they tell you about the approaches going in. In my case, I knew not only the approaches I would fly, but the order and how they were to be flown - the ILS as a precision approach, the VOR as partial panel, and the RNAV as an LNAV-only approach. Gave me a chance to do a mock checkride with my instructor, which of course I did. By some people's standards, I had it too easy. By others... well let's just say it was a difficult checkride for other reasons.
 
narchee said:
I was told what approaches to expect during my oral. I was given an RNAV GPS approach but he told me for that one he wanted me to do the NON-precision approach.
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All RNAV GPS approaches are non-precision. I assume he meant he wanted you to fly it without vertical guidance. Note, I don't know how you'd force that to happen. None of the WAAS GPSs I know let you shut it off. As long as you don't bust a non-LPV stepdown or MDA, flying the vertical guideance wouldn't be illadvised.
 
flyingron said:
All RNAV GPS approaches are non-precision.
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Only from a technical legal standpoint. As the experts have said here repeatedly, for all intents and purposes, an LPV approach with a 200 foot DH is a Cat I precision approach.
I assume he meant he wanted you to fly it without vertical guidance. Note, I don't know how you'd force that to happen. None of the WAAS GPSs I know let you shut it off. As long as you don't bust a non-LPV stepdown or MDA, flying the vertical guideance wouldn't be illadvised.
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Well, you can force it if you want by switching off WAAS. You can do that in the 480, as I'm sure you know; I'm not sure about the 430W/530W. But all my DPE wanted me to do was to ignore the vertical guidance and observe the LNAV minimums. Beats me why, maybe to see if I knew that the LNAV MDA would be the applicable minimum if I didn't have vertical guidance. Anyway I know for 100% sure that I'd be flying the GS if it was for real. Inside the non-precision FAF, I'm pretty sure you aren't required to double check stepdown altitudes if flying the LPV... similar to on an ILS.
 
azure said:
Well, you can force it if you want by switching off WAAS. You can do that in the 480, as I'm sure you know; I'm not sure about the 430W/530W.
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Yes, you can turn it off on a 430/530W as well, if I remember right it's a Menu option when in the Aux pages (SBAS on/off). I've done it once or twice with students for training purposes. It does take a few knob twists though, not something you'd do for any other reason that I can think of. But if you do, don't forget to turn it back on!
 
It depends on the examiner and your CFI's familiarity with him/her. If your CFI has used the examiner before, he likely will know exactly what your checkride will entail. Personally, I interview any examiner before using him. There's no harm in asking in advance which airports will likely be involved. If the examiner is hellbent on keeping everything a secret, I find another examiner.
 
I've since scheduled and we are going to file IFR from 2W6 to SBY, cancel IFR, fly approaches there, I'm guessing a missed to hold over the SBY VOR, and come back VFR to clean up whatever is left (unusual attitudes).

So that means it's almost assuredly a VOR approach and ILS approach at SBY, then a GPS with a circle back into 2W6.

When I asked where we'll fly over the phone, he sounded laid back about it and that he juts goes where he can get the approaches in, typically to SBY. He's since confirmed this.
 
Watch out for crazy guys flying souped up grumman cheetahs.
 
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