Checkride tougher than medical boards?

jhoyt

jhoyt

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Jim
Mid-50s board certified surgeon sweating the checkride. :mad2::mad2::mad2:

I figure there a bunch of teenage punks that passed this thing, why can't I? Wondered how many of you out there that have been through other grueling paths to your careers felt a little anxious prior to your checkride? With my crazy work schedule this has been a 2 year process which hopefully will come to fruition this month with the ticket. Addicted to the whole thing--"another obsession" whines my wife--and she is probably correct. I have really loved the training. Has really been a journey and I've got to say much more challenging than I thought. However, what a great accomplishment for those of you that are pilots. And those that are IFR trained? I am not worthy.

Congrats to the teenage pilots, and I apologize for the "punks" comment. Truly am impressed with you all and hope to join the frat very soon.:goofy::goofy::goofy:

Love to hear from others who found the challenge a little more than anticipated!
 
no big deal. Don't worry so much. DE's are typically pretty seasoned, treat it as a learning opportunity.
 
You ARE going to make mistakes and not know the answer to every question. The examiner wants to pass you. Give him a reason to. Good luck!
 
I am a DVM, and the national licensing exam was way way more stressful. Plus you had to wait for like 2 months for results, here you know by the end of the day.
 
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jhoyt said:
Mid-50s board certified surgeon sweating the checkride. :mad2::mad2::mad2:

I figure there a bunch of teenage punks that passed this thing, why can't I? Wondered how many of you out there that have been through other grueling paths to your careers felt a little anxious prior to your checkride? With my crazy work schedule this has been a 2 year process which hopefully will come to fruition this month with the ticket. Addicted to the whole thing--"another obsession" whines my wife--and she is probably correct. I have really loved the training. Has really been a journey and I've got to say much more challenging than I thought. However, what a great accomplishment for those of you that are pilots. And those that are IFR trained? I am not worthy.

Congrats to the teenage pilots, and I apologize for the "punks" comment. Truly am impressed with you all and hope to join the frat very soon.:goofy::goofy::goofy:

Love to hear from others who found the challenge a little more than anticipated!
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Seriously? You aren't putting in the required time and effort. You're a board certified surgeon so this little gig that "punk kids" could manage, just didn't register that you really need to work at this to get done. It's why lots of upper level professionals fail or crash, it just doesn't register just how seriously you have to take not only the studying and the learning, but the mindset of PIC as well. They are much the same, PIC & MD, in the regards that your failure at either medicine or flying is going to take lives, the difference with being a pilot rather than a surgeon is it is more equitable in the failure mode, since as a pilot you kill yourself as well, that's why pilots don't carry malpractice.:lol:
 
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I had the same anxieties pre check ride. What got me though it was looking at some of the other people that managed to pass and think...wow, if they can do it...i should have NO problem!

The hardest part was having everyone else saying "just relax, you will do fine". The anxiety for me was not knowing what to expect...not from a not being prepared or having done mock check rides and orals...but not knowing what to expect of the whole situation and interaction with the DPE.

Now, having gone through it...relax, you will do fine!
 
As a teenage "punk", I'll echo the previous comments and say treat it as a learning experience and don't get thrown off by the mistakes you will make.

Good luck!
 
I didn't really find the checkride challenging (although my first dpe was very trying).

But you do have to go in with the mindset that on any given day, flying can kill you- it's not something you can phone in or give less than 100% to.
 
Make a resident take the checkride for you.
 
Henning said:
Seriously? You aren't putting in the required time and effort. You're a board certified surgeon so this little gig that "punk kids" could manage, just didn't register that you really need to work at this to get done. It's why lots of upper level professionals fail or crash, it just doesn't register just how seriously you have to take not only the studying and the learning, but the mindset of PIC as well. They are much the same, PIC & MD, in the regards that your failure at either medicine or flying is going to take lives, the difference with being a pilot rather than a surgeon is it is more equitable in the failure mode, since as a pilot you kill yourself as well, that's why pilots don't carry malpractice.:lol:
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That's kinda where I was headed. Dr's and Lawyers think theyre right 100% of the time. The oral will be a beating because youre going to talk yourself into a corner pretty quick. To say nothing of the actual checkride...
 
The body of knowledge is much less, the complexities also. The eye-hand thing is obviously different but you would not be released for a checkride unless you were at least close to being ready. Think about it this way, how many teenage surgeons are out there?
 
Am I the only one that sees every single response so far as having misinterpreted a question about nerves as a question about skills?

There is no question that initial check rides play games with your head. I compared it unfavorably to my dissertation defense. Not because it's harder -- it isn't -- but because of how important it is to manage your nerves. It's much more like an audition than a "board," but even that analogy is a bit stretched.
 
MAKG1 said:
Am I the only one that sees every single response so far as having misinterpreted a question about nerves as a question about skills?

There is no question that initial check rides play games with your head. I compared it unfavorably to my dissertation defense. Not because it's harder -- it isn't -- but because of how important it is to manage your nerves. It's much more like an audition than a "board," but even that analogy is a bit stretched.
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The nerves and skills are not unrelated, but the consequence of failure as a doctor is someone else dies, consequence of failure as a pilot you die. That is the greatest difference and block to confidence.
 
Henning said:
The nerves and skills are not unrelated, but the consequence of failure as a doctor is someone else dies, consequence of failure as a pilot you die. That is the greatest difference and block to confidence.
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Yes, they are unrelated.

You get nervous as hell on stage at an audition, but no one dies if you F up. I can only presume you've never done one.

Nerves will play a dominant role any time you submit your real-time performance to review from an elder. It has little relationship to the consequences of blowing it.

And of course there are many, many ways to blow a check ride that don't kill anyone.
 
MAKG1 said:
Yes, they are unrelated.

You get nervous as hell on stage at an audition, but no one dies if you F up.

Nerves will play a dominant role any time you submit your real-time performance to review from an elder. It has little relationship to the consequences of blowing it.

I guess you've never done one.

And of course there are many, many ways to blow a check ride that don't kill anyone.
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Your chances of dying from your mistakes on a check ride are considerably less than your chances of dying on a flight with no other pilot in the plane. You'll fail the ride, but not many DPEs are going to let you kill them. Once you PASS the checkride, now you are wholly responsible as PIC.
 
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Henning said:
Your chances of dying from your mistakes on a check ride are considerably less than your chances of dying on a flight with no other pilot in the plane. You'll fail the ride, but not many DPEs are going to let you kill them. Once you PASS the checkride, now you are wholly responsible as PIC.
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While that's true, it has nothing to do with nerves during a check ride.
 
Wonder if there is an accident rate difference between doc/pilots that learned pre med school, compared to those who learned to fly post med school
 
MAKG1 said:
There is no question that initial check rides play games with your head. I compared it unfavorably to my dissertation defense. Not because it's harder -- it isn't -- but because of how important it is to manage your nerves. It's much more like an audition than a "board," but even that analogy is a bit stretched.
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I think I'd compare it very favorably with mine. At my defense, I knew one person would be there who I expected to grill me mercilessly, even though he was not on my committee. As it turned out, he was a pussycat, but I didn't know that going in.

For my PPL checkride I think I was more excited than genuinely nervous, and anxious to just be done with being a student pilot. Didn't stop me from forgetting that the DPE wanted me to do my first takeoff as a SOFT FIELD instead of the normal kind. Not a bust though, I caught it, she asked me to explain how I would have done it, and the brain fart was quickly forgotten.

I didn't read any lack of seriousness in the OP, not sure where Henning is coming from on that. I think he'll do fine, whatever it takes to calm those nerves (only FAA-approved methods, of course :nono:)... :D
 
jhoyt said:
Mid-50s board certified surgeon sweating the checkride. :mad2::mad2::mad2:

I figure there a bunch of teenage punks that passed this thing, why can't I? Wondered how many of you out there that have been through other grueling paths to your careers felt a little anxious prior to your checkride? With my crazy work schedule this has been a 2 year process which hopefully will come to fruition this month with the ticket. Addicted to the whole thing--"another obsession" whines my wife--and she is probably correct. I have really loved the training. Has really been a journey and I've got to say much more challenging than I thought. However, what a great accomplishment for those of you that are pilots. And those that are IFR trained? I am not worthy.

Congrats to the teenage pilots, and I apologize for the "punks" comment. Truly am impressed with you all and hope to join the frat very soon.:goofy::goofy::goofy:

Love to hear from others who found the challenge a little more than anticipated!
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Practice, practice , practice, until you are confident you can do things with your eyes closed (pun intended). You studied and flew on ,weekends, for two years. You studied to become a Dr., minimum 8 years , every day, and then another 5 years to become a General Surgeon, before you took your boards. As an Internist been there done that.

Cheers
 
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azure said:
I didn't read any lack of seriousness in the OP, not sure where Henning is coming from on that. I think he'll do fine, whatever it takes to calm those nerves (only FAA-approved methods, of course :nono:)... :D
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We get nervous when we are unprepared, we fear failure when we know we haven't put in the effort. It's an element of subconscious self analysis.
 
Henning said:
We get nervous when we are unprepared, we fear failure when we know we haven't put in the effort. It's an element of subconscious self analysis.
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That assumes we're logical creatures, and we are in many ways but we also operate in a conditioned response mode. Our subconscious flashes back to an earlier test where we really weren't prepared and had our butt handed to us. Very difficult to overcome by conscious thought. Even some actors who know their parts cold and have rehearsed it to the nth degree experience stage fright.
 
azure said:
That assumes we're logical creatures, and we are in many ways but we also operate in a conditioned response mode. Our subconscious flashes back to an earlier test where we really weren't prepared and had our butt handed to us. Very difficult to overcome by conscious thought. Even some actors who know their parts cold and have rehearsed it to the nth degree experience stage fright.
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No, it assumes we are irrational, emotional creatures with experience at failing. We fail at everything before we succeed. Thing is, here a failure may be fatal.
 
"Thing is, here a failure may be fatal." Small mistakes not so much, major mistakes, career and life ending. Eg. failure to turn navigation lights on, minor. Failure to put the cap back on the oil sump after checking the oil, on an SR 22, likely fatal.

Cheers
 
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my PPL wasn't so bad. My instrument checkride was nerve racking. Mainly b/c I felt pretty good with my PPL stuff. I'm a pretty smart guy but there is a ton of stuff to know about instrument flying. IMO there is more stuff you can do to get yourself into a mess flying instrument than VFR, so they treat it accordingly.
 
Only one DPE that I know that says any deviation or mistake is an automatic failure, no questions asked, despite what the test standards say. I doubt you're going to him. The key is to not consistently make mistakes and fail to realize them and correct.
 
jhoyt said:
Mid-50s board certified surgeon sweating the checkride. :mad2::mad2::mad2:

I figure there a bunch of teenage punks that passed this thing, why can't I? Wondered how many of you out there that have been through other grueling paths to your careers felt a little anxious prior to your checkride? With my crazy work schedule this has been a 2 year process which hopefully will come to fruition this month with the ticket.
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Don't sweat it. Your everyday work gets to the point you can do it in your sleep. This is new, and you're a little nervous. The thought of failing it will keep you up the night before.

I'm not an MD, but am in the medical field. Years ago we did the Friday to Monday on-call 16's and work the 8's in-between. I thought I'd be slick and do an all nighter 2 days before checkride, thatway I'd sleep well the night before ... suffice it to say, don't try that trick, it failed. Also having the CFI tell me they never had a student fail in 15 years of teaching didn't take any pressure off either. On the plus side, the material isn't that hard ... and as suggested, don't over-answer the oral questions.
 
jhoyt said:
Mid-50s board certified surgeon sweating the checkride. :mad2::mad2::mad2:

I figure there a bunch of teenage punks that passed this thing, why can't I? Wondered how many of you out there that have been through other grueling paths to your careers felt a little anxious prior to your checkride? With my crazy work schedule this has been a 2 year process which hopefully will come to fruition this month with the ticket. Addicted to the whole thing--"another obsession" whines my wife--and she is probably correct. I have really loved the training. Has really been a journey and I've got to say much more challenging than I thought. However, what a great accomplishment for those of you that are pilots. And those that are IFR trained? I am not worthy.

Congrats to the teenage pilots, and I apologize for the "punks" comment. Truly am impressed with you all and hope to join the frat very soon.:goofy::goofy::goofy:

Love to hear from others who found the challenge a little more than anticipated!
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18 year old teenage punk here :D The ppl check ride was more of a learning experience than a test to me. Actually had a lot of fun. Hope you will too and good luck!
 
jhoyt said:
Mid-50s board certified surgeon sweating the checkride. Love to hear from others who found the challenge a little more than anticipated!
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My anesthesia boards were MUCH more difficult than any of my check rides. The only check ride even remotely close to boards was the initial flight instructor 'ride.

I'll do my last check ride before too long, I hope, ATP. I just need to check the "night" hours box and I'll take that one :yes:
 
As one who passed the private checkride at 20, just barely past the punk teens, I'm guessing that a successful professional in some other field may have higher expectations of themselves which might possibly make them more nervous about failure.
 
jordane93 said:
You ARE going to make mistakes and not know the answer to every question. The examiner wants to pass you. Give him a reason to. Good luck!
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This exactly.

Take a CFI ride if you want to really sweat :D

In all seriousness, the private ride is fairly relaxed. Know the items listed in the PTS and youre good.
 
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