Checklists, Do-lists, and Flows

Somedudeintn

Somedudeintn

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somedudeintn
Hello all, I'm a guilty do-lister. I use the checklist as a set of instructions to follow not as a secondary check to verify my flows. Primarily because I'm not sure where to start with flows or even mnemonics. Aside from the GUMPS check, do any of you have suggestions for flows you follow for various phases of flight for a piston SE? I was about to sit down with my checklist and come up with some but why reinvent the wheel if they are already out there.

FWIW I realize that there are slight variances for each plane, but I also realize that the major items are the same for the planes I've flown with the major differences being fuel injected vs a carb.
 
Cessna. Start at the floor going up through fuel. Then go from the right to left across the instruments and knobs then profit! Works for most planes.

The Ce208B had a nice little flow like that.
 
Familiar with a cross? Go from between the seat, straight up, to anything overhead. Then, go from the left side of the panel to the right side, covering every single item installed.

Run through the checklist, checking off each item and verifying its accuracy.

After that, sit back as far as you can in the seat, and look around to see if anything looks abnormal.

However, before you're able to do something like that, you have to be able to identify, explain, and be able to troubleshoot every knob, switch, gauge, and light in the cockpit.
 
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NJP_MAN said:
Cessna. Start at the floor going up through fuel. Then go from the right to left across the instruments and knobs then profit! Works for most planes.

The Ce208B had a nice little flow like that.
Click to expand...

That worked pretty well in the Cessna I trained in. Had to modify it some to fit the Mooney. Your radio stack may also affect it some. Do you have anything on the right side to check often?
 
I always used CIGAR TIPS for takeoff in Pistons...not really a "flow" as such, but it worked well for me.
 
I've had instructors not care about checklist usage (flows were fine) and others get upset if I only used a flow.

Then I printed a checklist, taped it to the back of my clip board and pretended to read from it while I did my flows. Tada. Everyone's happy.
 
Cpt_Kirk said:
Familiar with a cross? Go from between the seat, straight up, to anything overhead. Then, go from the left side of the panel to the right side, covering every single item installed.

Run through the checklist, checking off each item and verifying its accuracy.

After that, sit back as far as you can in the seat, and look around to see if anything looks abnormal.

However, before you're able to do something like that, you have to be able to identify, explain, and be able to troubleshoot every knob, switch, gauge, and light in the cockpit.
Click to expand...

The only context I really learned this sort of flow was for an engine failure. It makes sense that it can be used to help prevent emergencies too!
 
Somedudeintn said:
Wouldn't forgetting the Trim be a potential critical item?
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I have a KILLER items check that I do holding short of the runway. It involves things that if forgotten, will kill you.

-Gas - quantity, mixture, selector, and pumps
-Flight controls
-Trims
-Flaps - or, configuration
 
warthog1984 said:
Controls
Instruments
Gas
Aeronautics (trim and flaps)
Run-up
Click to expand...
"Aeronautics" is a pretty big word? When I learned it back in '66 "A" stood for "Air", IOW which way is the wind blowing? A lot of trainers back then didn't even have flaps and trim was so easily overcome that it wasn't all that critical.
 
MauleSkinner said:
I always used CIGAR TIPS for takeoff in Pistons...not really a "flow" as such, but it worked well for me.
Click to expand...

I use CIGARRS and PPT - pitch, power, trim... Add in instrument and mixture and I use that doing climb, cruise and descents. Landing I use CGUMPS and that's it.

Oh and in CIGARRS - I have the A as "attitude" so flaps and trim. The extra R is radios and works into my Instrument training flights.
 
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Somedudeintn said:
Nice. I just looked this one up and found this reference for anyone else who is interested. CIGAR TIPS seems like a fairly complete pre-takeoff check.

http://macsblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/046-050_leftseatJUNE.pdf
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Hmmm... Jim doesn't remember who taught him CIGARTIP?
EDIT: Upon rereading the quote, he DOES remember! It's a printed one he doesn't. I don't either.

"I don’t recall having a printed checklist in my first airplane, a Cessna 140, or in the Piper Colt I flew some for primary instruction. But what I do remember, and still use in my Baron and in most piston airplanes as a checklist, is the mnemonic CIGAR TIP." J. Mac McClellan​
Pretty sure I taught my younger brother who then taught him in the Colt. Then I checked him out in the Cessna 140 he bought from me, so I'd have shown him myself too. CIGARTIP was promoted by the FAA on posters, IIRC, at many FBOs back in the '60s and '70s.

The "A" is for "Altimeter", btw.

dtuuri
 
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NJP_MAN said:
Cessna. Start at the floor going up through fuel. Then go from the right to left across the instruments and knobs then profit! Works for most planes.
Click to expand...

Cpt_Kirk said:
Familiar with a cross? Go from between the seat, straight up, to anything overhead. Then, go from the left side of the panel to the right side, covering every single item installed.
Click to expand...

There are modifications around that look at the specific layout of some panels, but the basic cross works pretty universally.

I think the big thing to avoid is to try to create different flows for different phases. The problem with doing that is that now you have to remember or create muscle memory for multiple things. With a universal flow, you may pause at an item and thing (or say) "irrelevant" but that takes about 1/4 second. So you check the gear handle in cruise? Big deal (and you might actually catch that you forgot to retract it!).

The other tip when starting to use flows generally is to say them out loud. Lot of folks recommend doing that always but that's pretty much personal choice. But doing it out loud in the beginning helps to lock it in so you do it all the time. It also helps you debrief yourself after the flight to see how your transition to a flow SOP is coming along.

IMO, don't waste your time with stupid mnemonics since
Mnemonics Never Eliminate Man's Only Nemesis - Insufficient Cerebral Storage
 
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Cpt_Kirk said:
Familiar with a cross? Go from between the seat, straight up, to anything overhead. Then, go from the left side of the panel to the right side, covering every single item installed.
Click to expand...

An easy way to remember your method would be a slight variance on the way some folks remember the sequence to crossing themselves Catholic style...

Testicles, spectacles, wallet, watch​
 
Somedudeintn said:
The only context I really learned this sort of flow was for an engine failure. It makes sense that it can be used to help prevent emergencies too!
Click to expand...

Run the same flow on pre start. Run up . Pre departure. Before landing and just plain anytime you want to make sure you're configured correct for the particular phase. Touch everything, everytime.
 
In my plane it's just a simple left to right, then up to check the trim, down to check the fuel.
 
If I still had my ERAU SOPA, I would post it. It had all the flows from before start to all emergencies in it.
 
nimdabew said:
If I still had my ERAU SOPA, I would post it. It had all the flows from before start to all emergencies in it.
Click to expand...
I've seen other ones that do the same.

But I think "all the flows" — different flows for different phases — raises its own problems and is kind of contrary to the whole idea of a flow.
 
Somedudeintn said:
Wouldn't forgetting the Trim be a potential critical item?
Click to expand...


Depends on how malnourished the pilot is.

When you are touching down, you have the trim set for landing, what happens on a go around? Full power climb (kinda like takeoff) with the trim still set for landing, use your muscle with one hand, retrim with the other. :dunno:



NASA did a great study on the concept, use and design of cockpit checklists.

I'd read their study and go from there.

Good stuff

http://ti.arc.nasa.gov/m/profile/adegani/Cockpit Checklists.pdf
 
James331 said:
Depends on how malnourished the pilot is.

When you are touching down, you have the trim set for landing, what happens on a go around? Full power climb (kinda like takeoff) with the trim still set for landing, use your muscle with one hand, retrim with the other. :dunno:



NASA did a great study on the concept, use and design of cockpit checklists.

I'd read their study and go from there.

Good stuff

http://ti.arc.nasa.gov/m/profile/adegani/Cockpit Checklists.pdf
Click to expand...

Yea, during a go around I think it helps that you are already expecting the plane to be out of trim. I would think that during takeoff if you are thinking the airplane is trimmed differently than it actually is, the surprise food be an issue. Probably not most of the time, but there is a potential.
 
Checklists, do-lists, flows... might as well discuss religion. :popcorn:
 
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