Checklist and Flow

dmccormack

dmccormack

Touchdown! Greaser!
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Dan Mc
I've become a convert to flow over paper checklists in simpler airplanes (Chief, C150/152, VFR 172/PA-28, and the like) that I fly often.

I find I remember more, miss less, and know exactly where I was interrupted.

Any other converts?
 
I use flows in the aircraft I fly as well.
 
Ok, I'll bite. What's a flow? Some kind of decision tree? Can anyone link to an example, for, say a C172?
 
GeorgeC said:
Ok, I'll bite. What's a flow? Some kind of decision tree? Can anyone link to an example, for, say a C172?
Click to expand...

Start at one point in the Aircraft and work your way across, ending at some other specific point (I start with doors, end with trim in the Chief. Trim is ceiling mounted)
 
Mine starts in the lower left of the panel (where the master switch is) and flows along then bottom of the panel the up the right side and back to the left at the top of the panel. Its easier, quicker and I think more accurate than a paper checklist.
 
I was taught mnemonics and flows from day #1. That said, I do have checklists for planes that I don't fly regularly as I don't have the flows ingrained the way that they should be for you to trust your life to them.
 
My Cardinal checkout CFI introduced me to flows back in fall 2003. His flow was a "backwards sign of the cross" form that started in the bottom center of the panel, climbed upward to the top, then went across the rest of the panel from right to left, going from top to bottom inside each horizontal part, if that makes sense. You touch *everything* to make sure that you have thought about whether or not you need to do something with it at this time. I've adapted that flow to every plane I've flown since then (all Cessnas, it might make a difference), and still use it in the Branded Bird.

My feeling about flows vs checklists is that I'm MUCH more likely to skip something using a printed checklist, and if interrupted when using a checklist, all bets are off. I consider checklists fairly unreliable except to check the flow, and then only when flying an unfamiliar airplane. Once I've got the routine down in a particular plane, I look over the checklist only once in a blue moon.

Obviously I'm an enthusiastic convert. :)
 
I teach all Cessna pilots to start their flow with their right hand on the floor between the seats, and then move their hand forward. Fuel selector, gages, flaps (if manual) trim power quadrant, up to the lower panel, then left across the sub-panel to the sidewall, up and across the flight instruments, radios, and engine instruments then back across the environmental controls and gages and complete at the power quadrant.

Works like a charm on everything from 170 to 441. I back up the flows with the written list, because it requires very little time and helps prevent me doing something stupid. Also good practice for flying bigger airplanes, not that I do it much now.



azure said:
My Cardinal checkout CFI introduced me to flows back in fall 2003. His flow was a "backwards sign of the cross" form that started in the bottom center of the panel, climbed upward to the top, then went across the rest of the panel from right to left, going from top to bottom inside each horizontal part, if that makes sense. You touch *everything* to make sure that you have thought about whether or not you need to do something with it at this time. I've adapted that flow to every plane I've flown since then (all Cessnas, it might make a difference), and still use it in the Branded Bird.

My feeling about flows vs checklists is that I'm MUCH more likely to skip something using a printed checklist, and if interrupted when using a checklist, all bets are off. I consider checklists fairly unreliable except to check the flow, and then only when flying an unfamiliar airplane. Once I've got the routine down in a particular plane, I look over the checklist only once in a blue moon.

Obviously I'm an enthusiastic convert. :)
Click to expand...
 
azure said:
Once I've got the routine down in a particular plane, I look over the checklist only once in a blue moon.
Click to expand...
I use flows, followed by checklist for critical items (so two checks of critical items).

The checklist also is useful for non-standard procedures (short-field takeoff so flap setting is something other than "up", non standard speeds, etc).

Also, keep in mind that flows touch EVERYTHING, so are good for preflights or after leveling at cruise, etc. Memory item checklists are for places where you need to touch specific items, like GUMPS, or after landing checklist, etc, and where you don't have lots of time.
 
Not sure if this will help anyone else, but I use a simple trigger that lets me know that I need to run a flow/checklist and it works really well -- every time I touch the throttle, I know that I need to do something else. Works from engine start to takeoff to leveling to climbing, descending, shutdown, you name it. If you have to touch the throttle, you have to run your checks. It becomes very mechanical, once you develop the habit.

I figure a checklist or flow really doesn't do a damn bit of good if I don't remember to use it. Figured I'd share in case anyone else wanted to give it a try.
 
GeorgeC said:
Ok, I'll bite. What's a flow? Some kind of decision tree? Can anyone link to an example, for, say a C172?
Click to expand...
When you were working on emergency procedures, did your CFI have you place your hand on the fuel selector and then work your way up to the mixture/throttle group and then left to the door, checking each item along the way?

Do you do your preflight by starting at one place on the airplane and then checking everything that you encounter as you move around the airplane back to where you started?

Both of those are flows.
 
I learned by checklist first, then my instructor showed me the flow starting between the seats of the 152, then over to the right side of the panel and back to the left. Helped me very much and during emergency procedures my mind already knew where the fuel / mixture / feeling across te CBs were so I could fly the plane and reach for the items immediately.

Helps with couch flying too :)
 
IMO, best of all is a checklist based on the flow. You're less likely to skip things, due to interruption or whatever. But for emergencies especially, it's more useful to just practice the motions. Blindfold optional...:D
 
I prefer flows. I do use a checklist for some items (particularly pre-takeoff, and especially if something is "non-standard", like short-field takeoff). In flight, it's almost always flow.
 
wabower said:
I teach all Cessna pilots to start their flow with their right hand on the floor between the seats, and then move their hand forward. Fuel selector, gages, flaps (if manual) trim power quadrant, up to the lower panel, then left across the sub-panel to the sidewall, up and across the flight instruments, radios, and engine instruments then back across the environmental controls and gages and complete at the power quadrant.

Works like a charm on everything from 170 to 441. I back up the flows with the written list, because it requires very little time and helps prevent me doing something stupid. Also good practice for flying bigger airplanes, not that I do it much now.
Click to expand...

Ha, same one I used to teach too... I called it the inverted L :)
 
I'm with Greg and Wayne -- flows are great for a lot of things, but sometimes you need a checklist to make sure you didn't miss anything critical. Checklists don't all have to be printed, but they must be a list of items to be checked in an appropriate order to be sure everything critical has been accomplished. So, I use a flow to set everything up for engine start, but I use my CIGARTIP checklist before takeoff.
 
Ron Levy said:
I'm with Greg and Wayne -- flows are great for a lot of things, but sometimes you need a checklist to make sure you didn't miss anything critical. Checklists don't all have to be printed, but they must be a list of items to be checked in an appropriate order to be sure everything critical has been accomplished. So, I use a flow to set everything up for engine start, but I use my CIGARTIP checklist before takeoff.
Click to expand...

I've heard GUMPS. I recently heard of CIGAR (still don't know what it is) and now you throw this one at me???
 
rottydaddy said:
IMO, best of all is a checklist based on the flow. You're less likely to skip things, due to interruption or whatever. But for emergencies especially, it's more useful to just practice the motions. Blindfold optional...:D
Click to expand...
I agree with this.

One of the things I have done for many of the planes I regularly fly is to custom make my own checklists. I'll take the POH checklist for a plane and add additional items that I feel are appropriate, then arrange them in a pattern that works well as a flow.

I use one of these checklist binders that currently contains my custom tailored and tabbed checklists for the BE-76, PA28, PA28R, PA32 and C172:
flt%20crew%20checklists.jpg



For single pilot flying, I generally use flows and will pull the checklist out to verify I haven't missed something. For example, my after take-off/climb checklist is a memory/flow and then once I am stable in the climb, I'll review the checklist to make sure that nothing was missed. If it is a 2 pilot op, then PF generally calls for the checklist and PNF runs it.

For emergency procedures, I have always been a firm believer in memorizing what we in the Navy engineering world refer to as Immediate and Controlling Actions. The initial procedures for engine failure, fire...etc should be committed to memory. The emergency checklist comes out after the initial emergency is dealt with.
 
I have some kind of mental block that has prevented me from memorizing the checklist even after using it somewhere around 100 times. Somehow, going line-by-line on the checklist removes my attention from the action, and I focus more on keeping my place than understand what I'm actually doing. My problem is that I use it as a 'do list' rather than a 'check list'. I've read recently about using the flow method and thought it would be a great idea to incorporate.
 
jasc15 said:
I have some kind of mental block that has prevented me from memorizing the checklist even after using it somewhere around 100 times. Somehow, going line-by-line on the checklist removes my attention from the action, and I focus more on keeping my place than understand what I'm actually doing. My problem is that I use it as a 'do list' rather than a 'check list'. I've read recently about using the flow method and thought it would be a great idea to incorporate.
Click to expand...


In that case, the value of the written checklist is something to read through and verify, "Yep, did that..."
 
Perhaps it is more important to understand WHY you check certain things. I recall when I read through the DA-40 manual, I found there was a critical item missing from the preflight checklist and it stuck with me to remember to do it.

The pilot who has never read the AFM wouldn't know about the manufacturer's warning and the mfr can say, 'it's right there in the manual on page so and so'.
 
Jaybird180 said:
Perhaps it is more important to understand WHY you check certain things. I recall when I read through the DA-40 manual, I found there was a critical item missing from the preflight checklist and it stuck with me to remember to do it.

The pilot who has never read the AFM wouldn't know about the manufacturer's warning and the mfr can say, 'it's right there in the manual on page so and so'.
Click to expand...

This is why I make my own checklists that include the POH items and ADD the critical, missing items.
 
dmccormack said:
This is why I make my own checklists that include the POH items and ADD the critical, missing items.
Click to expand...
Exactly! That is why I do the same as well. I have found that many GA manufacturers checklists are pretty sparse - especially in some of the older planes.
 
And the after landing checklist that I made for the 152 includes "turn off headset batteries".......... I remember but the students wouldn't necessarily so I put it in big letters so they see it.
 
Jeanie said:
And the after landing checklist that I made for the 152 includes "turn off headset batteries".......... I remember but the students wouldn't necessarily so I put it in big letters so they see it.
Click to expand...

Isn't buying batteries incentive enough?
 
One nice benifit of flows is the efficiency at which you can confidently manage the cockpit. One thing about flows. .....if you rarely fly....... a do list might serve you better until you are truly comfortable with the aircraft you are flying ,then go to a flow/check system.
 
Jaybird180 said:
I've heard GUMPS. I recently heard of CIGAR (still don't know what it is) and now you throw this one at me???
Click to expand...
You ain't seen nuthin yet.

The number of mnemonics to replace written checklists has reached the point that I've seen mnemonic checklists that have mnemonic sub-checklists to help remember what the main checklist item is supposed to be.
 
taters said:
One nice benifit of flows is the efficiency at which you can confidently manage the cockpit. One thing about flows. .....if you rarely fly....... a do list might serve you better until you are truly comfortable with the aircraft you are flying ,then go to a flow/check system.
Click to expand...

Very true. If it's been a while since I've flown any airplane I reference the do list. Usually doesn't take long to get re-acquainted.
 
dmccormack said:
I've become a convert to flow over paper checklists in simpler airplanes (Chief, C150/152, VFR 172/PA-28, and the like) that I fly often.

I find I remember more, miss less, and know exactly where I was interrupted.

Any other converts?
Click to expand...

A flow isn't a replacement for a checklist and if you are using a flow instead of a checklist, I'd offer you are using them incorrectly.
 
BellyUpFish said:
A flow isn't a replacement for a checklist and if you are using a flow instead of a checklist, I'd offer you are using them incorrectly.
Click to expand...

At what point does a checklist become more of a hazard than a flow pattern?

A CE150 is about as complicated as a lawn tractor. Seriously.
 
fgcason said:
At what point does a checklist become more of a hazard than a flow pattern?

A CE150 is about as complicated as a lawn tractor. Seriously.
Click to expand...

And a Chief is about as complicated as a push mower:

Pre Landing Checklist:

  • Find field
  • Reduce power
  • Carb heat on
  • Trim for 60
  • Land
 
fgcason said:
At what point does a checklist become more of a hazard than a flow pattern?

A CE150 is about as complicated as a lawn tractor. Seriously.
Click to expand...

Bingo - Rod Machado wrote an article in the last year talking about that sort of thing - he was flying with a guy who was trying to fly his little piston single like it was an airliner and his head was totally focused inside the cockpit - not looking outside and flying the bloody airplane.
 
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