Chasing my PPL - Progress Thread...

[Hobobiker]

I didn't want to keep adding to my intro thread to track my progress, so I decided to log it here and pick up where I left off. First three out of four lessons were full hours or more, and one was cut short by bad weather and some thermals that bounced us around enough that we cut it short at .6 on the Hobbs meter.

First three lessons: Discovery flight, Slow flight, multiple touch and go's, rectangular pattern work, circle pattern work, 'S' pattern work over a road, simulated engine failure, etc.

Lesson 4, last night: 8 landings, using both sides of the runway. One simulated engine failure using the runway as my cornfield and actually landed it power off from 2400 MSL. Slow flight exercises. Had me do multiple slips on final to show how we can drop altitude quickly if needed. Also noted that my 'color issues' do not keep me from seeing the red and white lights on approach. I can see them just fine! Stalls are next lesson he tells me.

Kept messing up my longer radio calls and thought I had them down. Frustrating, but my CFI reminded me that it was only my third time up after my discovery flight.

 

[DaleB]

Sounds like you're doing fine. What are you flying?

 

[Hobobiker]

Sounds like you're doing fine. What are you flying?

Thanks Dale - Enjoying the heck out of it right now. I've done everything in the Piper Archer below as of right now, although the school has the Cessna below as well that I'm sure I'll get some seat-time in...

 

[DaleB]

If you want a little unsolicited advice... tell your CFI you want to learn stalls in the Cessna. I did stalls in a Cherokee just fine, and the first time I tried it in a 172 I just about had a heart attack. The Cessna pretty much demands that you keep the ball centered, and if you let a power on stall break you'll definitely know it happened. The Piper really couldn't care less whether you're coordinated or not, and by comparison to the Cessna a stall is pretty much a non-event.

 

[Hobobiker]

If you want a little unsolicited advice... tell your CFI you want to learn stalls in the Cessna. I did stalls in a Cherokee just fine, and the first time I tried it in a 172 I just about had a heart attack. The Cessna pretty much demands that you keep the ball centered, and if you let a power on stall break you'll definitely know it happened. The Piper really couldn't care less whether you're coordinated or not, and by comparison to the Cessna a stall is pretty much a non-event.

Thanks...I'll definitely bring it up...

 

[jer.lawrence]

If you want a little unsolicited advice... tell your CFI you want to learn stalls in the Cessna. I did stalls in a Cherokee just fine, and the first time I tried it in a 172 I just about had a heart attack. The Cessna pretty much demands that you keep the ball centered, and if you let a power on stall break you'll definitely know it happened. The Piper really couldn't care less whether you're coordinated or not, and by comparison to the Cessna a stall is pretty much a non-event.

Glad to read this as well -- been doing stall practice in a WarriorII -- does the Cessna try to spin easier? Ya know, I don't know why, but I'm terrified of stalls. I'm trying to get over it. We spent a good hour last time practicing stalls and recovery, and I'm so timid during the practice of those. That, and landing. Everything else, I seem fine with. :/

We climbed to ~3500 and did power-off recoveries, back into another stall and power-off recovery, repeatedly. Just to sort of "show me" that the plane would more or less right itself. It's still scary, for some reason. I guess I just need to get over it.

 

[DaleB]

Glad to read this as well -- been doing stall practice in a WarriorII -- does the Cessna try to spin easier? Ya know, I don't know why, but I'm terrified of stalls. I'm trying to get over it. We spent a good hour last time practicing stalls and recovery, and I'm so timid during the practice of those. That, and landing. Everything else, I seem fine with. :/

We climbed to ~3500 and did power-off recoveries, back into another stall and power-off recovery, repeatedly. Just to sort of "show me" that the plane would more or less right itself. It's still scary, for some reason. I guess I just need to get over it.

I never once noticed the Cherokee trying to enter a spin. The Cessna will do so if you aren't coordinated. It'll definitely teach you to pay attention to the ball in a way that the Piper won't.

Power-off stalls have never been a problem for me in either plane. One day (at my CFI's suggestion) I just kept the 172 stalled, didn't recover and kept the wings level as we dropped about 1000' or so. No big deal.

Power-on (in the 172 -- the Piper was a cinch) was a different story -- always scared me since the first one I tried, when we ended up pitched sharply down and in a tight right turn. It sure looked like the beginning of a spin to me. Anyway, we did them one day non-stop -- stall, recover, right into the next power-on stall. No delay. We did that until two things happened... I finally started getting queasy, and I got over being afraid of it.

When you fly the Cessna, you have to learn to use rudder pedals. Especially the right one. I like Pipers, but I think they can be a little too forgiving of poor technique.

 

[AuntPeggy]

In both a Cessna and a Piper, I can move into and out of a stall without having an event. Just learn how to use the rudder and how to move the yoke back and forth to cause-break-cause-break the stall. Loads of fun after you get the hang of it. Learn to do a falling leaf. Learn to fly in a stall from point a to point b. Laugh all the way.

You must really work hard at it to spin a C-172. Probably the same for a C-152. Even then, you can't get it to stay in a spin very long.

 

[denverpilot]

On the radio stuff, has your CFI offered up this one?

Every call...

- Who you're calling.
- Who you are.
- Where you are.
- What you want.

In that order. That'll cover 95% of VFR radio work.

 

[jspilot]

Sounds like your training is going very well. Radio calls are tough in the beginning because it's tough to concentrate on flying and talking. Try and listen to the liveatc web site. Pick a general aviation airport and listen to the calls of other pilots. It's a really good source to listen to when you are learning what to say. After a while what you say to ATC gets repetitive and it just comes out of your mouth correctly!

No experience with stalls is pipers but several stalls in 172's. Just keep the ball centered and all is fine. I liked the stalls in 172's because the plane will let you know its no longer generating lift very clearly and it's not just a gradual fall like it was in the 152 I flew.

Keep enjoying the training and take it all in!

 

[Hobobiker]

On the radio stuff, has your CFI offered up this one?

Every call...

- Who you're calling.
- Who you are.
- Where you are.
- What you want.

In that order. That'll cover 95% of VFR radio work.

Thank you...very helpful!

 

[AggieMike88]

Another resource for learning Radio Comm's: Bob Gardner's book "Say Again, Please..."

A related podcast: http://castroller.com/podcasts/TheFinerPoints/340089

 

[AggieMike88]

"using both sides of the runway"

Ummm.... both ends? Right and left side?

 

[Hobobiker]

"using both sides of the runway"

Ummm.... both ends? Right and left side?

Lol. Yep, both ends. 28 and 10 at my home airport...

 

[AggieMike88]

Lol. Yep, both ends. 28 and 10 at my home airport...

Ahhh. When you get good at short field landings, tell your instructor you want to try the really wide runway at your home field... RWY01/19

 

[BurtM]

Thanks Dale - Enjoying the heck out of it right now. I've done everything in the Piper Archer below as of right now, although the school has the Cessna below as well that I'm sure I'll get some seat-time in...

If you can fly both as part of your PP training, that would be good, IMO. Biwingual, or something like that.

Plus, if you're landing now on a runway that you can pick which side you touch down on, that's great, but you might want to talk to your CFI about finding a narrow runway to deal with. Turf, too, if you can.

My 2 pesos.

 

[AggieMike88]

I agree about turf. You will learn and practice that on pavement. But doing it on actual grass is a good experience. Not to mention it's own brand of fun.

That's a nice looking Archer. If the rental cost is reasonable, you have access to a great aircraft to use once you have your license.

 

[Meanee]

I've done stalls in both Warrior II and C172. Thing is, my CFI showed me Warrior II stalls, but the C172 was solo. While in Warrior, stalls were more or less a non-event, in Cessna, I felt the plane was trying to break to the side constantly. Required significant rudder to keep ball centered. I was actually anticipating this and for that reason I decided to do my stalls at 8000' thinking if spin develops, I may need some room lol.

 

[BurtM]

I've done stalls in both Warrior II and C172. Thing is, my CFI showed me Warrior II stalls, but the C172 was solo. While in Warrior, stalls were more or less a non-event, in Cessna, I felt the plane was trying to break to the side constantly. Required significant rudder to keep ball centered. I was actually anticipating this and for that reason I decided to do my stalls at 8000' thinking if spin develops, I may need some room lol.

You'd be doing yourself a favor IMO if you went up with an instructor and did a whole stall series in a 172. It's really a docile plane, but yes, you do have to work the rudder a little.

Maybe do some good slow flight practice first, then go on to the stall series - power off, power on, departure, etc.

If there's a 150/152 available to rent, do that too. The 150 and 152 will make you work the rudder more than a 172 in my experience.

I think a side benefit to the slow flight and stall practice is that it gives you a better feel for learning what the rudder can do for you in crosswind landings.

My 2 rupees.

 

[Hobobiker]

My CFI offered to take my kids and I up in his plane, and my son got to take the pilot's seat. Kids LOVED it, and it's all they've talked about...

Dad got to take the pilot seat on the trip back...

 

[denverpilot]

Sweet. Happy flying family.

 

[Meanee]

You'd be doing yourself a favor IMO if you went up with an instructor and did a whole stall series in a 172. It's really a docile plane, but yes, you do have to work the rudder a little.

Maybe do some good slow flight practice first, then go on to the stall series - power off, power on, departure, etc.

If there's a 150/152 available to rent, do that too. The 150 and 152 will make you work the rudder more than a 172 in my experience.

I think a side benefit to the slow flight and stall practice is that it gives you a better feel for learning what the rudder can do for you in crosswind landings.

My 2 rupees.

Thanks for tips. I am kind of over that part already. Checkride came and passed back in April. I just had a weird training. Dual in Warrior, Solo in 152, checkride in 172 (I am not the lightest one out there, plus DPE is not exactly skinny)

Cross country was done in 152, and PTS maneuvers in 172. But I should go grab that 152 and try out some PTS stuff there as well, to keep myself on my toes.

 

[Henning]

On the radio stuff, has your CFI offered up this one?

Every call...

- Who you're calling.
- Who you are.
- Where you are.
- What you want.

In that order. That'll cover 95% of VFR radio work.

I'll modify that just a touch; on initiatial call, especially on a busy frequency:
- Who you're calling
- Who you are
- Wait for acknowledgement

e.g. My call up would be "Miami approach, 69SA" and I'll get anywhere from "69SA Go ahead" to "Aircraft calling stand by" and then they machine gun instructions to 5 planes and get back to me.

Now, here's a question for the OP, say I'm looking for entry into Class C airspace, if I get the latter response, am I ok to enter the Charlie?

 

[MDeitch1976]

Another resource for learning Radio Comm's: Bob Gardner's book "Say Again, Please..."

 

[EppyGA]

I'll modify that just a touch; on initiatial call, especially on a busy frequency:
- Who you're calling
- Who you are
- Wait for acknowledgement

e.g. My call up would be "Miami approach, 69SA" and I'll get anywhere from "69SA Go ahead" to "Aircraft calling stand by" and then they machine gun instructions to 5 planes and get back to me.

Now, here's a question for the OP, say I'm looking for entry into Class C airspace, if I get the latter response, am I ok to enter the Charlie?

Nope, gotta hear you're tail number.

 

[denverpilot]

I'll modify that just a touch; on initiatial call, especially on a busy frequency:
- Who you're calling
- Who you are
- Wait for acknowledgement

e.g. My call up would be "Miami approach, 69SA" and I'll get anywhere from "69SA Go ahead" to "Aircraft calling stand by" and then they machine gun instructions to 5 planes and get back to me.

If it's that busy, I add "request" to it. And be mentally prepared to get "Maintain VFR, Remain clear of the Class Bravo airspace."

"Request" is short and sweet and also keeps the controller from having to look around their scope and strips to see if I'm a tail number that was just handed off and doing a bad call-up, or someone they forgot about that they're already working.

Basically it says, "fresh meat" in their head.

I've read that some controllers HATE this, though... they prefer you just spit it out. Then they don't have to go back and forth with you. Others prefer the "request" and like to get back to you later.

If you listen a bit, sometimes you can tell by inflection which one annoys them more. But since they're mostly working IFR traffic and not a lot of requests, usually you just have to wing it.

What I also listen for a bit for is to see if I'm hearing all the responses from other aircraft. If I'm only hearing the controller's side of the conversations, I know right then that they're operating multiple frequencies and a long drawn out call up might be mixing in their headphones with higher priority traffic in their headset. Better to use the "request" technique when they're operating split frequency. Otherwise, I just get it over with and give the full request.

Controllers are really good at picking out details from two simultaneous call ups on two frequencies in their headsets and doing things like this if they heard a Heavy check in and someone ask for something on the other frequency...

"Continental 2202 Heavy, Climb and Maintain One, One -- eleven -- thousand, cleared direct EXTAN."

"One, One thousand, direct EXTAN, Continental 2202 Heavy."

"And the aircraft calling near Aurora Reservoir, say type and request again?"

Most controllers have great auditory brain filters.

Side-note: "Where you are" gets dropped by inexperienced or thoughtless pilots on *hand offs* all the time. It always leads to this...

"Denver Center, Skylane 1279M *with you*."

(Insert the never-ending debate and admonishments over the total uselessness of "with you" here...)

"Skylane 79M, Radar Contact, Denver Altimeter Two Niner Niner Two, SAY ALTITUDE."

You just wasted his time. He MUST confirm your Mode C matches what you say. Now he has to ask.

Better call-up for a handoff...

"Denver Center, Skylane 1279M LEVEL Niner Thousand Five Hundred".

I beat "with you" out of my head by replacing it with "LEVEL" in most cases. Of course, "climbing" and "decending" also work.

Since your Mode C has to match, best to give altitude at and going to. Then he can hit the button that the altitude is confirmed and also tag your final altitude at the exact same time. One "touch" of the datablock/strip info.

"Denver Center, Skylane 1279M, Six Thousand Seven Hundred, climbing Niner Thousand Five Hundred". All done in one transmission.

And if course if it isn't busy, then add the niceties... Everyone likes a "good afternoon" but not when they're waiting on you to shut up to give three other commands.

 

[Henning]

Nope, gotta hear you're tail number.

Now how about a Delta?

 

[Hobobiker]

Flew again yesterday. Power on stalls, power off stalls, and acceleration stalls (turning stalls). Did them all in the piper, but he did discuss wing drop/spins and how much easier the 172 would drop a wing vs the piper in a stall. Did 8 stalls and 5 landings. Fun stuff!

 

[Hobobiker]

Watched the King video of Taming Stalls and Spins today. Good timing after my stall practice, and added some clarity and additional info to what my CFI told me. Might go and bench fly while sitting in the plane seat today...helps me with a lot of things and much better than bench flying from my couch...

 

[iWantWings]

Watched the King video of Taming Stalls and Spins today. Good timing after my stall practice, and added some clarity and additional info to what my CFI told me. Might go and bench fly while sitting in the plane seat today...helps me with a lot of things and much better than bench flying from my couch...

Glad to hear to hear you "bench fly", especially if you can do it in the plane while parked. Prior to getting the endoresment to solo, I used to get the airport some minutes earlier just so that I could bench-fly after i had done my pre-flight (i didn't actually move any of the controls, but just imagined how things played out).

I also did some of that at home on a game with yoke, rudder and some other "controls".

Procedurally it helped me a lot with stalls because I wasn't thinking anymore what I had to do, item by item, while doing the actual stalls. And so it become almost an instinct and the procedure for stalls and recovery became easier.

Also, another thing that helped me was to take some photos of the cokpit of the plane I would fly most often, print and post them on the wall (work and home). That also helped in the days when I would not fly for weeks.

Sounds like you're doing all the right things - I enjoy reading your progress.

 

[Hobobiker]

Thanks Wings. My instructor told me after my last landing that he was confident I could land the plane in the event he died during flight. While I know it was a compliment, I respectfully asked that he not fake/demonstrate a heart attack during my next lesson...

 

[Hobobiker]

No flying today, but was able to spend most of my lunch in the cockpit while the plane was in the hanger. Practiced all my checklists, benchflew a bunch of takeoffs and landings while making the radio calls, practiced a few engine failures, etc. Also started completing some of the AOPA courses to compliment what my CFI is teaching me. Next flight scheduled tomorrow eve, weather permitting. More stall practice and landings, I'm sure...

 

[MBDiagMan]

Glad to see that you're still at it Hobo!

 

[Hobobiker]

Glad to see that you're still at it Hobo!

I'm hoping the novelty never wears off Doc! Finished up four AOPA lessons and got the certificates, if for no other reason than it's an additional learning resource. Flew bench again today, and even ended up moving the Cherokee out of the hanger, moving out the Cessna 172 for a guy and his wife to fly, and then put the Piper back in again. At least I provided a little value while hanging out at the hanger "practicing". :wink2:

Scheduled to fly again tomorrow afternoon. Guess it's stalls, landings, crabbing, and slipping if the wind plays along...

Instructor also provided me this link, which was helpful...\

http://www8.garmin.com/support/download_details.jsp?id=3527

 

[BurtM]

Thanks for tips. I am kind of over that part already. Checkride came and passed back in April. I just had a weird training. Dual in Warrior, Solo in 152, checkride in 172 (I am not the lightest one out there, plus DPE is not exactly skinny)

Cross country was done in 152, and PTS maneuvers in 172. But I should go grab that 152 and try out some PTS stuff there as well, to keep myself on my toes.

In this day and age, if you have more than one basic FG single to rent, you're ahead of the curve. I think a lot of people settle in to a 172 or Warrior/Archer because that's what they trained in and don't really stretch out or change from there. I never really understood ground effect until I flew a PA-28.

Around here, no one really has a 150/152 to rent any more. And that's a shame, because it's a really a nice little plane for stick and rudder flying.

 

[jpower]

Guess it's...crabbing, and slipping if the wind plays along...

The wind never seems to do what I want it to do. Every single time I went to the airport this summer (made the final push starting in May), it was either dead calm or the wind was straight down the runway. So my first crosswind landing of a few months was in around 8 knots of variable crosswind on my checkride. It turns out I remembered what a slip was and how to do it, but still not the kind of excitement I was hoping for!

 

[BurtM]

The wind never seems to do what I want it to do. Every single time I went to the airport this summer (made the final push starting in May), it was either dead calm or the wind was straight down the runway. So my first crosswind landing of a few months was in around 8 knots of variable crosswind on my checkride. It turns out I remembered what a slip was and how to do it, but still not the kind of excitement I was hoping for!

Every time I woof on a crosswind landing, I break out the old Walt Disney and/or Grizzly Adams video of ducks crash landing on a frozen lake. Makes me feel better.

 

[CMTowner]

It's refreshing to read your posts, Hobo, and fun at the same time. Takes me back to some of my training days, especially our comments about the instructor and having a heart attack. I think a few times during my initial landings I about gave the instructor a cardiac arrest. I look forward to reading more updates of your progress. Keep on having fun with the learning.

 

[Hobobiker]

It's refreshing to read your posts, Hobo, and fun at the same time. Takes me back to some of my training days, especially our comments about the instructor and having a heart attack. I think a few times during my initial landings I about gave the instructor a cardiac arrest. I look forward to reading more updates of your progress. Keep on having fun with the learning.

Thanks CM. Not trying to bore anyone to tears, but wanted to chronicle my training for a couple of reasons. My 11-year old son wants to be a pilot so I thought it might show him some struggles and timeframes that I went through. Also, it might help other newbies as well.

As an update, I work at a hospital so I talked to the local AME here yesterday about my color issues. He told me to go have a nurse walk me through the 17-page color booklet to see how bad it was. Got the first one right, and I thought "cool, I'm greasing this test this time..." Not so much... I missed the next 16 in a row. Needless to say, the AME is checking into my options but it looks as if I'll do a Class III and have an FAA resource give me a light test.

I can see the red/white slope lights just fine and can tell the difference, but those stupid color cards get me every time. Anyway, my CFI wants a copy of my passport today and wants me to schedule my Class III as soon as possible. I have 5.6 hours in so far and he's talking about my solo, which is why he wants the documentation and test out of the way...

 

[Hobobiker]

Another 1.3 on the Hobbs last night, taking me to 6.9 total hours. Seven landings, including two where he cut my engine and had me use the runway as my emergency landing spot. Two landings where he did absolutely nothing and even moved the mike away from his mouth. Power on stalls, Power off stalls. For some reason it was more work than fun last night, and the plane seemed to be flying ME rather than the other way around. One of my landings was even a nosewheel because I let my airspeed drop. I realize I'm new and just learning, but yesterday went down as one of the "Ugh" flying days. Looking forward to a better one next time...

Evidently I need to take a written very soon for my solo work, and need to get my Class III Medical ASAP. Sounds like he has my solo in mind...