charging dual rates for solo flights?

Discussion in 'Pilot Training' started by exncsurfer, May 6, 2019.

  1. genna

    genna Cleared for Takeoff

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    Well. I have about 300 hours post PPL in my log book. Less than 100 of that was additional training. All renting. If my FBO charged 30-40$ more, I’d probably not be flying.
     
  2. Daniel L

    Daniel L Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Agreed. My school operated a similar way and was delighted to meet a cfi at a brewery one night. The next i was flying with him.

    Sent from my SM-T350 using Tapatalk
     
  3. Juliet Hotel

    Juliet Hotel Line Up and Wait PoA Supporter

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    You're the exception not the rule IME.
     
  4. genna

    genna Cleared for Takeoff

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    You are possibly correct. But I submit that, short of people going for the carrier, PPL students are often convinced to take the plunge by ability to rent after they get the license. Sure, once they actually get the license they often quickly realize that renting is complicated and give up(or buy). However, without that carrot they may never even get to be pilots at all.

    I think the most fair way of accomplishing it all is to have CFIs as hourly employees, paid buy the school(for all the time they are working) without any direct relationship to student charges. Plane is rented at its rate, CFI is "rented" at his/her rate. Hobbs is used for both. The CFI overhead is baked into CFI rates just as administration overhead is baked into plane rates. This is fair for renters, CFIs, and very easy and clear for students.

    Any school that has operated for a little while can figure out what the overhead is and price their rates accordingly
     
  5. Juliet Hotel

    Juliet Hotel Line Up and Wait PoA Supporter

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    Building the CFI compensation into all rental rates in no way removes the ability to rent after the license is obtained.
     
  6. genna

    genna Cleared for Takeoff

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    yes, but it's immediately obvious that it's significantly more expensive. Flying at $160/h vs $210/h(after PPL) would make quite a lot of people think twice if the whole thing is worth it.
     
  7. Juliet Hotel

    Juliet Hotel Line Up and Wait PoA Supporter

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    Who said the CFI would get paid $50/hr?
     
  8. genna

    genna Cleared for Takeoff

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    CFI's rate around where i am is $60-90/hour. What CFI get paid is irrelevant to my argument. What renters pay is. Even if difference(vs just plane rate) is not 50 but say 40.. you will get a lot less renters and then the burden has to be shouldered more and more by students(raising the CFI surcharge). Essentially bringing us back to "dual" price for student all the time. My point is that the school will lose renters and potential students intending to rent after PPL.
     
  9. Juliet Hotel

    Juliet Hotel Line Up and Wait PoA Supporter

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    Well since we're talking about restructuring the business model, I think what the CFI gets paid is entirely relevant. And I doubt very many on-staff CFI's are getting $60/hr in their pocket. If they are, I'll start working on a CFI cert tomorrow.

    The point is, I bet lots of FBO's could do this by increasing the rates not more than $20-25/hr. A $25/hr increase will no doubt reduce utilization some but probably not by a whole lot.
     
  10. genna

    genna Cleared for Takeoff

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    I just looked at my school's schedule to see how this would work out. Sunday has 33h in plane schedules and 15 hours in instructor scheduled. Assuming that all show up and instructors will bill(handshake to handshake) 12 hours @60/h.. That's $720 revenue. Now assuming that 33h scheduled produces 17 hours Hobbs. That means that plane's rate has to increase by $42 to produce the same $720 in revenue. That's a 25% rate increase on 172. I'd say this is significant.

    In reality, the instructor rate here is more than $60 on average since they charge much higher rate for CFII and Multi( I cannot tell what type of instruction is scheduled)
     
  11. MauleSkinner

    MauleSkinner Final Approach

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    Why don’t you buy an FBO and let us know how that pricing structure works for you?