Changes due to ASRS?

[MauleSkinner]

Didn’t want to hijack the ASRS chopping block thread, but it raised a question in my mind. Have there been any changes made to regulations/policies/whatever based on ASRS filings, or is it simply used as supporting information for changes that someone decides need to be made?

For example, after the KDCA midair, it was reported that there have been fairly regular filings of TCAS RAs and near midairs between fixed wing and helicopter traffic there. Changes were/are being made, but they aren’t directly driven by ASRS.

I’m not doubting the value of ASRS in any way, either for the reports or the protections. Just curious about how it’s used.

 

[Bell206]

Have there been any changes made to regulations/policies/whatever based on ASRS filings, or is it simply used as supporting information for changes that someone decides need to be made?

Both. But mainly in a supportive way. For example, you will see ASRS references in an NPRM or in a work group white paper, etc. The ASRS database is also used extensively for public and private research projects. So its a very important resource at many levels. Plus there is an ICAO requirement to have a voluntary reporting system which the ASRS system is considered the benchmark. However, as I mentioned in the other thread, this notice is for renewal not direct cancellation of the program. And I wouldn't be surprised if there are other NASA based info collection programs listed in the Federal Register along with the ASRS going through the same renewal process.

 

[flyingron]

Note that a TCAS RA that causes a pilot to deviate from an ATC instruction already requires an NTSB submission. Years ago, I'm flying up the Chicago lakeshore at 10,500' talking to C90. I'm hearing them hold departures first from MDW and then ORD to 9000' to keep them from climbing into me. However one UA MD-80 (gives you an idea how long ago this was) is climbing up toward my flight path. He's far enough away that it's not a problem, but then I see him start a descent. "Hey, I got a TCAS RA" he announces. "Oh, yeah. There's a Navion up at 10,5." I pointed out I had him in sight all the time and it wasn't a factor.

Anyhow, I knew that the UA crew was going to file an NTSB report. I figured that it might help if I voluntarily submitted my side of the incident so I did. What I didn't realize was that the guy who receives these reports at the NTSB was one of my wife's volunteers at the museum. She gets an email saying, "Can you guys go to Oshksoh without scaring the **** out of some airline pilot in the process."

 

[MauleSkinner]

Note that a TCAS RA that causes a pilot to deviate from an ATC instruction already requires an NTSB submission.

Does an RA automatically assume “substantial risk of collision” per NTSB 830? Seems like there’s a fair amount of wiggle room in that definition for whether or not an RA needs to be reported especially if “He's far enough away that it's not a problem.”

 

[flyingron]

Does an RA automatically assume “substantial risk of collision” per NTSB 830? Seems like there’s a fair amount of wiggle room in that definition for whether or not an RA needs to be reported especially if “He's far enough away that it's not a problem.”

You're not supposed to second guess the RAs and the pilot is certainly going to justify is violating ATC instruction by arguing that it was so necessary.

 

[Sam D]

@RussR you may have experience here. I believe that instrument approach changes have been made based on ASRS reports.

 

[RussR]

@RussR you may have experience here. I believe that instrument approach changes have been made based on ASRS reports.

Unfortunately I'm at the opposite end of the process, and we usually wouldn't have that kind of information as to "why" an approach was changed. We have a lot of changes that simply say "ATC request" or something similar, without any details of what happened earlier in the process.

 

[MauleSkinner]

You're not supposed to second guess the RAs and the pilot is certainly going to justify is violating ATC instruction by arguing that it was so necessary.

I’m not talking about second guessing anything or needing to justify anything to ATC beyond “TCAS RA.” But the four I’ve been involved in posed no risk of collision unless one or both of us tried. T me, that’s not a “significant” enough risk to report to the NTSB.