CFI said- Airports cannot use salt on runways. True?

charheep

charheep

Cleared for Takeoff
Joined
Feb 5, 2013
Messages
1,422
Location
Aurora, IL
Display Name
Display name:
charheep
I can kinda see trying to avoid FOD, but is that the real reason? Or so it doesnt corrode AL? Or was he just passing along bad info? We were talking about reduced braking and it came up.

What is done to commercial airport runways to keep them clear?
 
charheep said:
I can kinda see trying to avoid FOD, but is that the real reason? Or so it doesnt corrode AL? Or was he just passing along bad info? We were talking about reduced braking and it came up.

What is done to commercial airport runways to keep them clear?
Click to expand...
Correct, airports do not put down chemicals that would be corrosive to aircraft metals. They plow and use the sweeper, and occasionally they'll use sand or certain deicing fluids specifically for runway use, but no salt or brine solution.
 
Salt + aluminum is a big no-no. I don't think I've ever seen an application of anything on a runway; here in MN they just plow and/or brush the snow off as needed.
 
Merrill puts sand on taxiways when it gets too icy


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Liquids are better at dispersion and adhesion which is one of their biggest advantages over solids such as salt. Wind and jet blast would scatter the solids quickly.

Plenty of liquid chemicals to choose from depending on environmental concerns, pavement types, etc.
 
ChiefPilot said:
Salt + aluminum is a big no-no. I don't think I've ever seen an application of anything on a runway; here in MN they just plow and/or brush the snow off as needed.
Click to expand...

I agree, no chemicals, but sanding is done when necessary like on January 23 at St Paul MN after a 6" snowfall.
 
champ driver said:
I agree, no chemicals, but sanding is done when necessary like on January 23 at St Paul MN after a 6" snowfall.
Click to expand...

I can guarantee that they're applying deicer to runways at commercial service airports there, particularly at MSP. Even more so with new TALPA and FICON requirements.

In fact, it looks like they average 240,000 gallons of liquid deicer, 65 tons of solid deicer, and 7,000 tons of sand at MSP every winter season:
http://www.airportimprovement.com/a...-offers-peek-inside-its-snow-removal-playbook
 
I thought they used uria (sp?)..?? Cow urine??
 
https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Advisory_Circular/150-5200-30D.pdf

All you ever wanted to know about airport snow removal. Section 4.6 covers approved and prohibited ice control chemicals.

"However, these chemicals are known to be corrosive to aircraft and therefore are prohibited for use on aircraft operational areas."

Turningfinal said:
I can guarantee that they're applying deicer to runways at commercial service airports there, particularly at MSP. Even more so with new TALPA and FICON requirements.
Click to expand...

TALPA didn't change how we do snow removal, just how its reported to pilots.
 
Thank god they aren't allowed to, with NYs fetish with salt there wouldn't be a single airworthy plane left up here otherwise.


When it comes to runways, plow and sand if needed, sand can chew up props a little, especially when operating in beta range.
 
So, I'm curious about another point - do you mean to tell us all that you doubted what your instructor told you ;)
 
Not officially sanctioned, but in and around hangars we used urea at KVLL. Nasty smelling, but much less corrosive than sodium chloride.
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
Heated runways, baby!
Click to expand...

I have heard about this. This particular article was the first that had a cost to operate. $.19 per square meter. Just doing some rough numbers for a 9000x150 foot runway, comes out to about $28,500 per use. I question the economic feasibility. Also you would develop an ice ridge at the edge of the heated pavement where the melted snow refreezes.
 
And from the pedant prospective:

It's likely true the CFI said it. The accuracy of the CFI's statement seems high based on the responses thus far.
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
Heated runways, baby!
Click to expand...

This is how we do "Heated Runways" in Carolina.
https://www.foxsports.com/nascar/sh...ay-jet-dryers-concord-regional-airport-021815

B-EHzv5IIAAD46Z.jpg


midwestpa24 said:
I have heard about this. This particular article was the first that had a cost to operate. $.19 per square meter. Just doing some rough numbers for a 9000x150 foot runway, comes out to about $28,500 per use. I question the economic feasibility. Also you would develop an ice ridge at the edge of the heated pavement where the melted snow refreezes.
Click to expand...

And no disrespect, but this is 'Merica, we don't do meters here....
 
champ driver said:
I agree, no chemicals, but sanding is done when necessary like on January 23 at St Paul MN after a 6" snowfall.
Click to expand...

Good to know. I've seen the snow removal equipment, but never anything that could spread sand around. I wonder if it's done just in unusual circumstances?
 
ChiefPilot said:
Good to know. I've seen the snow removal equipment, but never anything that could spread sand around. I wonder if it's done just in unusual circumstances?
Click to expand...
I’m betting if/when they sand, it’s not road sand with sizable rocks. I have no way of verifying this, but if I was a betting man I would say there is some sort of aviation grade sand.
That’s just a guess....
Apparantly the urea has been seconded.
 
Kritchlow said:
I’m betting if/when they sand, it’s not road sand with sizable rocks. I have no way of verifying this, but if I was a betting man I would say there is some sort of aviation grade sand.
That’s just a guess....
Apparantly the urea has been seconded.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't doubt it - but the equipment I've seen has been plows only, or at a couple of places a large brush. No place to put any kind of hopper on either.
 
TRocket said:
And no disrespect, but this is 'Merica, we don't do meters here....
Click to expand...

Just going off the article. For my round figuring one meter is about one yard. Close enough.

Kritchlow said:
I’m betting if/when they sand, it’s not road sand with sizable rocks. I have no way of verifying this, but if I was a betting man I would say there is some sort of aviation grade sand.
That’s just a guess....
Apparantly the urea has been seconded.
Click to expand...

There is a FAA specification for the sand in the Advisory Circular I linked above. It has to be fairly fine screened sand.

We don't always use sand. As a matter of fact we hate to, but it is a necessary evil. We will only use it if we are ice covered and braking is poor or nil. For most snows, a runway broom will give you bare pavement and there is no need to sand.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top