CFI/CFII Training Experiences

neilki

neilki

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neilki
Hello everyone, first post :)

I'm a slightly unusual CFI candidate, with 2000 hours ME/Turbine, after working part 135 for several years i moved to another industry and manage 50 hours a year in an SR22. Mostly IFR XC from NYC around the North East & Mid Atlantic.
I've always wanted to instruct, and my day job involves lots of 1:1 and 1: many presentations. My plan is to instruct weekends, evenings and the occasional weekday. There appears to be demand for CFI's in the NY Metro region.

I'm pretty comfortable with the G1000 equipped 172 CFII/CFI training will be in, and have a decent grasp on Aerodynamics, Wx et al.
~My question to CFI/CFII's.. as i'm trying to choose a school to train at; how many hours did you fly for, and how many (paid) hours did you spend with an Instructor to get the ratings. i've been advised to take the CFII as an initial (the world i fly in anyway) and then add on CFI & MEI. I know the requirements about requiring a CFI-A Class rating to exercise the privileges of the CFII...
Any experiences or advice much appreciated.

neilki
 
Doing the CFII first was generally recommended back when the common belief was that you could do some instrument instructing, get your feet wet, then get the CFI-A. Since that isn't the case anymore (and may never have been), there is no incentive along that line.

What some will do is get the CFII and MEI in a multi either at the same time or nearly so. This does have the benefit that now for the CFI-A you do not need to find an RG airplane to rent, which is difficult and/or expensive in some areas.

If that's not the case for you, though, I don't know of any other reason to do the CFII first before one of the others.

I did my CFI part 141, so I'm not a good guide on how long it took (since it took the required 25 hours). I figure it was probably 10-15 hours of flying before I was ready, mostly to get used to flying the manuevers in a new airplane. The CFII I did Part 61 and it took me about 5 or 6 hours, but I was already instrument current and proficient (which it sounds like you are as well). It was very easy in my opinion.

The MEI I did an little unusually, so my time isn't a good comparison, but that prep was really about the same as the CFII. If you're proficient in multis, then you should be able to get it done anywhere from 5-10 hours I'd think.

I did it in the "normal" order - CFI, CFII, MEI - and was actively instructing between them. As a result, the CFII and MEI were really easy rides - talk and fly, then talk while the examiner flies, which I was already used to doing over and over again with students. I had about 1000 hours total time when I started, so the flying part wasn't hard.

And welcome to POA, stick around and let us know how it goes!
 
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Neilki, I was about in the same position as you when I did my CFI a few years ago. It didn't take very long, if I recall correctly it took about 5 hrs or so of flying before we felt like I was good to go. If you can teach well then most of the battle is already won. Good luck
 
RussR said:
What some will do is get the CFII and MEI in a multi either at the same time or nearly so. This does have the benefit that now for the CFI-A you do not need to find an RG airplane to rent, which is difficult and/or expensive in some areas.
Click to expand...

This is what I did. Took less time and money.
 
I probably did 15hrs of flying/teaching in the plane,
30-40 hrs on the ground with an instructor

100+hrs of self study.


This rating is all about self-study..
 
ja_user said:
I probably did 15hrs of flying/teaching in the plane,
30-40 hrs on the ground with an instructor

100+hrs of self study.


This rating is all about self-study..
Click to expand...

It also makes me feel like I am a complete moron. :D
 
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The most important thing to remember about the CFI ticket is that it’s all about teaching, not flying. You will be judged more on your ability to impart learning to your student than on any demonstration of your own pilot skills. The Aviation Instructor's Handbook book is rather dry, and (considering that it’s supposed to be prepared by professionals who really know about teaching) not all that easy to learn from. However, the important data are there, and you’d best learn not only to parrot them, but to understand what they mean and apply them when you teach (and if you don’t recognize these “levels of learning” you’re not ready yet). You will have to be able to read the student’s mind to find out whether he’s really learned the material or not, and if not, WHY not. Then you must be able to figure out how to get past whatever barrier to understanding exists in that student’s mind. You’ll find that there are as many successful techniques as there are students, but there may only be one of those many that works for any one particular student. Being able to hit on one that will work quickly, before the student becomes discouraged, is the toughest part of flight instructing.

How to work through this? Get with some successful teachers, not necessarily pilots. I’m talking about someone you know who’s an experienced high school teacher, one that the kids remember long after graduation as the highlight of their experience. Talk about teaching and learning with this person. You might also consider some basic education courses at the local college.

Finally, here are a few points I put together to get your mind right for the initial CFI checkride:

1. You are a teacher, not a pilot. How you teach is far more important than how you fly the plane. It doesn't matter if you slightly screw up a maneuver, as long as you identify the screw-up as it happens, talk about why it happened, and then how to do it right.

2. Don't rush into any answers. When asked questions, show the examiner where the answer is written -- you're showing how to teach a student, not demonstrating your own superior knowledge. That means you should know COLD where to find the answers -- if asked about the red/green/white tower light gun signals, it shouldn't take you more than a few seconds to get to the right page in the AIM. And you should know instantly whether an answer to an FAR question is in Part 61 or Part 91 (HINT: If the rule applies no matter who's flying the plane, it's in 91. If not, it's in 61.)

3. Be relaxed and organized. When asked a to teach an item, take a moment to gather your thoughts and draw out any blackboard diagrams or itemized lists for the lesson. You're not on "Jeopardy" -- there's no one gonna beat you to the buzzer and steal your $200 prize.

4. Inventory your stuff before you go to the meet -- the checklist in the PTS is a good tool. Make sure you have all the source materials to teach as well as answer all the questions in the PTS.

5. Typically, during the oral, the examiner will jump on one topic and continue asking questions until you run out of answers. In the Air Force, we called this game "Stump the Dummy." As the questioner knows more than the questionee about the topic he selected (which is why the questioner selected it), the final outcome (the dummy is stumped) is never in doubt. The critical elements are how far the dummy can get before being stumped, and how he handles the situation -- straight knowledge, clear explanations, use of the book when appropriate or necessary, and no BS or tap-dancing when finally stumped.

6. Expect a long, grueling session. You're being given the authority to release others into the sky without anyone else's oversight. They want to make damn sure you can make good decisions in that respect. For that reason, I think the initial CFI is the most significant ride you'll ever take.

Good luck,
Ron Levy
CFI since 1973
 
Least expensive thing in my ticket was my CFI, well my GI was the cheapest lol

About 10hrs in the plane to get used to her and do the spin signoff (even though I had a bit of spin experience prior).

Spent 20-30hrs tutoring students at the flight school (free).

Another 10-15 helping tutor in the sim (free)

Gave my critique in planes with licensed pilots, 3-5hrs (free)

Spent about 2mo studying everything from king, FAR, Wikipedia (a good resource for FOI), etc.

Written test times 2, FOI and CFI (300 for both)

Checkride at the FSDO, long oral, bout a 1hr flight.

All in it cost me under 2k.
 
For my CFI I spent 10 hours in the airplane. I did all the ground on my own and spent at least 40 hours, but likely more. The CFII took a little more time because I wasn't super current on the little stuff of instrument flying, just the flying itself. I'd say the CFI was the cheapest rating but took the most time due to the ground stuff.
 
I took a week long class for my CFI. It was nice to know that there was a rating at the end, and just when the end was going to be. The DE ran the school. The whole class passed.

One thing we did, was he had us stand up and teach in class. We read pretty much ALL the FARS (whew) relating to piloting. Whew! Then we went flying every afternoon.
It was really satisfying. Of course you had to take a week off and do it. Cost etc. But after suffering with endless delays, disappointments and restarts with my private and instrument (I got them, the old fashioned way, 2 lessons a week etc), it was really refreshing to enroll in an intensive class. I wish I had gotten my CFII at the same time, just a couple more days and I would have gotten it. Consider that one too.
 
coloradobluesky said:
I took a week long class for my CFI. It was nice to know that there was a rating at the end, and just when the end was going to be. The DE ran the school. The whole class passed.

One thing we did, was he had us stand up and teach in class. We read pretty much ALL the FARS (whew) relating to piloting. Whew! Then we went flying every afternoon.
It was really satisfying. Of course you had to take a week off and do it. Cost etc. But after suffering with endless delays, disappointments and restarts with my private and instrument (I got them, the old fashioned way, 2 lessons a week etc), it was really refreshing to enroll in an intensive class. I wish I had gotten my CFII at the same time, just a couple more days and I would have gotten it. Consider that one too.
Click to expand...
What school is this?
 
One thing that helped me was to spend a good bit of time riding back seat and observing other instructors teach. It was time well spent.
 
JimNtexas said:
Can this DE issue an initial CFI certificate? AFAIK the schools around Austin all have to send you to the FSDO for the initial instructor certificate.
Click to expand...

It's FSDO dependant. I did my initial in Scottsdale FSDO with a DPE
 
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