Cessna VS Piper

I trained in Warriors and 172s, but I have a low wing preference. It's something comforting about looking out the window and seeing the top of the wings in flight. High wing planes lack the view above my eye level peripherally(except Cardinals) and that turn from base to final is way cooler in a Warrior. Also, when flying high wing planes, I feel like I'm dangling from a pterodactyl's talons. It used to bug me, but I eventually got over that sensation.
 
I recently flew right seat in a Piper (PA-28, I think.) It flew very nicely, and was quite fun. It just felt a little cramped compared to my 177B. Of course, the 177B is unusually wide for an entry level trainer, regardless of make, and noticeably wider than a 172. So that's not really a Cessna v. Piper thing.
 
bartmc said:
Call AQI if you have any more gyros that need to be rebuilt. $1000 is STEEP.
Click to expand...

I'll keep that in mind. I wouldn't be surprised if the DG is next seeing as how it was just as old and also a vacuum operated gyro, seems like I have to adjust it a little more often than I should in flight.
 
1555508_10202194547764240_1887462463_n.jpg
 
cowman said:
I'll keep that in mind. I wouldn't be surprised if the DG is next seeing as how it was just as old and also a vacuum operated gyro, seems like I have to adjust it a little more often than I should in flight.
Click to expand...

When I started my IFR training and we got into "for real" IMC over the Montana Rockies.... all the gyros came out and went to AQI.

If you're handy with an agreeable mechanic, they're not hard to remove/install yourself.
 
Henning said:
Hell too, there's still Beech and Commander to go along with a myriad of others.
Click to expand...

I'll take an S model Vtail Bonanza with the IO550 up front over just about anything. It'll do soft fields, it'll go fast and it'll haul a decent amount of crap.
 
Arbiter419 said:
I'll take an S model Vtail Bonanza with the IO550 up front over just about anything. It'll do soft fields, it'll go fast and it'll haul a decent amount of crap.
Click to expand...

I like the S best myself, but I'd prefer it with a TNIO-470.
 
Arbiter419 said:
I'm assuming the N is a typo for S? I can't find anything about the N code.
Click to expand...

Turbo Normalized, an aftermarket appellation of a turbo to maintain sea level manifold pressure on a naturally aspirated engine. Much more efficient than the TSIO models which have a lowered compression ratio and operate at supercharged (above SL atmospheric) manifold pressures. Typically 8.5:1 vs 7.5:1 in the TSIO factory engines.
 
Henning said:
Turbo Normalized, an aftermarket appellation of a turbo to maintain sea level manifold pressure on a naturally aspirated engine. Much more efficient than the TSIO models which have a lowered compression ratio and operate at supercharged (above SL atmospheric) manifold pressures. Typically 8.5:1 vs 7.5:1 in the TSIO factory engines.
Click to expand...

Oh that's actually really neat. Definitely the only way I'd own a boosted airplane on this side of the Mississippi. Is it a traditional wastegate setup that regulates the boost?
 
Arbiter419 said:
Oh that's actually really neat. Definitely the only way I'd own a boosted airplane on this side of the Mississippi. Is it a traditional wastegate setup that regulates the boost?
Click to expand...

It depends on which kit, some are self regulating, some are manual waste gates with either cable or electric motor control. My Travelair had electric motor control. The nice thing about manual, if you need to push the power to save your life, it's there.
 
Henning said:
It depends on which kit, some are self regulating, some are manual waste gates with either cable or electric motor control. My Travelair had electric motor control. The nice thing about manual, if you need to push the power to save your life, it's there.
Click to expand...

That's the way I'd do it. Pretty neat, gives me something to read about. Take it easy Henning.
 
Beech Fans, tell me about ruddervator flutter and mag corrosion, and a AD list that is the longest in GA.
 
somorris said:
2) they (most of them) have a decent window to open in the summer while taxiing;
Click to expand...
By the way, I found high wing Cessnas cooler inside on a hot summer day while taxiing, Pipers can get really hot because of green-house effect. But overall I preferred handling in the air of Piper Archer II (plus I think they look better) that I flew over a Cessna though I like them both.
 
Tom-D said:
Beech Fans, tell me about ruddervator flutter and mag corrosion, and a AD list that is the longest in GA.
Click to expand...

Ruddervator flutter has brought down how many planes? When was the last? Most of the ADs are long since complied with, there are some recurring but that is true for most planes. Most all the issues have been modded and worked out decades ago. Mag corrosion is an issue, and ACR deals with it quite well as a preventative. Re skinning is same as any other and should be figured into the purchase agreement if corrosion issues are found. Some of the mag skins have aluminum replacements as well. The biggie these days is the spar carry through AD, but even that isn't particularly onerous as long as you keep the area clean for inspection. Very few are found as defective. It's not like 210s or Cardinals don't have some issues with their spar carry through, mostly corrosion issues. The repair for either is about the same cost/complexity, the advantage may even go to the Beech since you don't have to deal with the headliner, minor difference though. The rest of the ADs are pretty much either nickel-dime stuff like greasing the up lock rollers and checking the spring condition, or are common across brands like the Harzell prop ADs and Bendix mags.
 
Henning said:
Ruddervator flutter has brought down how many planes? When was the last? Most of the ADs are long since complied with, there are some recurring but that is true for most planes. Most all the issues have been modded and worked out decades ago. Mag corrosion is an issue, and ACR deals with it quite well as a preventative. Re skinning is same as any other and should be figured into the purchase agreement if corrosion issues are found. Some of the mag skins have aluminum replacements as well. The biggie these days is the spar carry through AD, but even that isn't particularly onerous as long as you keep the area clean for inspection. Very few are found as defective. It's not like 210s or Cardinals don't have some issues with their spar carry through, mostly corrosion issues. The repair for either is about the same cost/complexity, the advantage may even go to the Beech since you don't have to deal with the headliner, minor difference though. The rest of the ADs are pretty much either nickel-dime stuff like greasing the up lock rollers and checking the spring condition, or are common across brands like the Harzell prop ADs and Bendix mags.
Click to expand...
doing all that = $10,000 annual.
 
Henning said:
No, a normal Bonanza annual is no where near $10,000 even on the years where you have to do the spar carry through inspection.
Click to expand...

My "thorough" dreaded first annual done by a BPPP A&P was…… $2,500.
 
Henning said:
No, a normal Bonanza annual is no where near $10,000 even on the years where you have to do the spar carry through inspection.
Click to expand...

I've had 2 bo owners approach me this year to do there annuals because they no longer can afford to own their beeches. both stated their annuals cost over 10k
 
Any airplane not correctly maintained will eventually become a money pit.

AD's most of the time are born out of improperly maintained aircraft. The Piper turnbuckle AD is one. Too many owners skimping maintenance and using IA's to pencil whip inspections rather than doing it properly. A Piper that has had real inspections performed over it's life the turnbuckle AD is not an issue.
 
Tom-D said:
I've had 2 bo owners approach me this year to do there annuals because they no longer can afford to own their beeches. both stated their annuals cost over 10k
Click to expand...

They have pieces of ****.. or a king air.

And don't you mean "13 month maintenance periods"

The actual annual inspection on a Bo is MUCH less labor intensive than a C172 or PA28.
 
Tom-D said:
I've had 2 bo owners approach me this year to do there annuals because they no longer can afford to own their beeches. both stated their annuals cost over 10k
Click to expand...

Don't know how bad of condition they allowed their planes to get into or who was doing them, but typically they are $2500 or less. If they had to overhaul their props (not a Beech specific issue) that would drive it up. If they don't do any corrosion prevention treatment and have to reskin some surfaces, that would drive it up, but $10k is a lot of work done on top of an annual, and that is not a Beech specific issue. If you neglect any plane, it will cost. Plenty of 210s see $10k plus annuals as well if they aren't cared for. At any rate, the $10k was not to resolve Beech specific ADs unless they did the spar carry throughs, and that's one time, you replace them with the new ones and the AD is over.
 
Last edited:
This thread is typical of why you don't rag on anyones aircraft.
 
Tom-D said:
This thread is typical of why you don't rag on anyones aircraft.
Click to expand...

Well, you started it and I wasn't ragging. I think I was actually complementing Cessna in that they seem to hold their values better than Pipers. I bought a Piper because it had "what I was looking for" cheaper than a comparable Cessna. I wanted a 4 seater lycoming O-320 Powered bird. There was a $10,000 price delta between the two. And when you bank account reads $25,000…. that's significant.
 
Tom-D said:
This thread is typical of why you don't rag on anyones aircraft.
Click to expand...

That's because in reality, there's no major difference in cost between brands of planes with similar capability. Past care and current condition of a specific tail number have far more effect than what brand badge that number is on. Buy the plane that makes you happy, and find a copy of it that's in the best condition you can find, preferably one that's been housed in a hangar all its life.
 
bartmc said:
They have pieces of ****.. or a king air.

And don't you mean "13 month maintenance periods"

The actual annual inspection on a Bo is MUCH less labor intensive than a C172 or PA28.
Click to expand...

Tell me which Cessna or Piper has a mechanical gear box to clean and lube.
 
Tom-D said:
Tell me which Cessna or Piper has a mechanical gear box to clean and lube.
Click to expand...

Not sure, was too busy removing inspection panels on the C172 to notice.

Which mechanical gear box are you cleaning and lubing? The one on the C175?

There's a big green thing between the seats in my Bo. You remove a screw and look at where the oil is on the threads… then put the screw back.

Do you really want to compare the hot hydraulic fluid shower retract mechanism on a Cessna to the one a Bonanza?
 
Tom-D said:
Tell me which Cessna or Piper has a mechanical gear box to clean and lube.
Click to expand...

Tell me which Beech has hydraulic pumps and hoses to replace? How about Gear saddles? It just doesn't matter. You can be a Cessna fan, no worries,heck, I own a Cessna, and BTW, it has mechanical gear, so there you go for your answer. It's all the same, same argument happens over Ford, Chevy, and Dodge, just as ridiculous of an argument.
 
Henning said:
Tell me which Beech has hydraulic pumps and hoses to replace? How about Gear saddles? It just doesn't matter. You can be a Cessna fan, no worries,heck, I own a Cessna, and BTW, it has mechanical gear, so there you go for your answer. It's all the same, same argument happens over Ford, Chevy, and Dodge, just as ridiculous of an argument.
Click to expand...

172 is what we were talking about, so show me the hydraulic pumps and hoses/
 
Hopefully the part 23 re-write alleviates some of these tiresome arguments regarding maintenance costs on these crotchety crafts/hieroglyphic paper trails for every little de facto automotive rusted bolt.
 
Henning said:
Show me the gear box on a Sundowner. Compare apples to apples.
Click to expand...

Show me a Piper or Cessna " sundowner " or did you for forget this thread was about P vs C
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top