Cessna to Archer transition

EdFred said:
I have quite a few hours in a Cardinal. I don't mind them so much, but I don't like turning right to turn left.
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Crawling on the wing, hoping passengers don't hurt themselves when its icy or wet, step off the wing walk and bugger up the skin, loading through one door is a blast ;)
 
bnt83 said:
Crawling on the wing, hoping passengers don't hurt themselves when its icy or wet, step off the wing walk and bugger up the skin, loading through one door is a blast ;)
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That's what my hangar is for.
 
Also now that I'm a PP, can I count the checkout as PIC despite the fact that he's a CFI? If not what about when I'm in the club and want to take him along for xwind landings?
 
ebykowsky said:
Also now that I'm a PP, can I count the checkout as PIC despite the fact that he's a CFI? If not what about when I'm in the club and want to take him along for xwind landings?
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Bang.
Head.
Wall.
 
So am I "rated" to fly a PA28? I would assume so despite it being a low wing.
And I suppose the CFI would be sole manipulator even if I fly the plane the whole time? So no? Please help translate... The flowchart only works if you know each subsection.
 
ebykowsky said:
So am I "rated" to fly a PA28? I would assume so despite it being a low wing.
And I suppose the CFI would be sole manipulator even if I fly the plane the whole time? So no? Please help translate... The flowchart only works if you know each subsection.
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Rated:
ASEL
AMEL
ASES
AMES
Glider
Whirling overhead blades of death.
Bag of gas
Bag of gas with pushy thingy
etc...


Sole manipulator:
Are you pushing and pulling and stepping on the pushy pully things and steppy things?
 
EdFred said:
Rated:
ASEL
AMEL
ASES
AMES
Glider
Whirling overhead blades of death.
Bag of gas
Bag of gas with pushy thingy
etc...


Sole manipulator:
Are you pushing and pulling and stepping on the pushy pully things and steppy things?
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So I am rated... and I'm doing almost all of the pushing and pulling, but he could step in a bit of the time, at which point he would be PIC. But what about the legal rights to the airplane, since the club would not technically let me fly the plane without the checkout?
 
ebykowsky said:
So I am rated... and I'm doing almost all of the pushing and pulling, but he could step in a bit of the time, at which point he would be PIC. But what about the legal rights to the airplane, since the club would not technically let me fly the plane without the checkout?
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What the club says needs to happen for you to rent has absolutely ZERO bearing on what you can log. As a CFI, even if I demo something to a private pilot, I still have him log PIC for the entire flight.
 
:
EdFred said:
What the club says needs to happen for you to rent has absolutely ZERO bearing on what you can log. As a CFI, even if I demo something to a private pilot, I still have him log PIC for the entire flight.
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:yeahthat:

Cheers
 
OK well I'll show him this thread if he protests :D
 
ebykowsky said:
So am I "rated" to fly a PA28? I would assume so despite it being a low wing.
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The word "rated" refers solely to things printed on your pilot certificate. Anything else, like a logbook endorsement, is not involved in being "rated." So, assuming the Archer isn't on floats, if you have "Airplane Single Engine Land" printed on the back of your pilot certificate, you're "rated" in an Archer.

And I suppose the CFI would be sole manipulator even if I fly the plane the whole time? So no?
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"Sole manipulator" refers to the person actually manipulating the controls. While one assumes the instructor may take the controls briefly a few times for demonstration purposes, the FAA won't quibble about you logging the entire flight as PIC time under the sole manipulator clause (14 CFR 61.51(e)(1)(i).
 
ebykowsky said:
So I am rated... and I'm doing almost all of the pushing and pulling, but he could step in a bit of the time, at which point he would be PIC.
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Odds are he's going to be the pilot in command (i.e., the person with final authority and responsibility for the safety of the flight) for the entire flight. That's being the PIC. The fact that you are doing all (or nearly all) of the actual flying doesn't change his status as PIC (i.e., boss dog) for the flight.

OTOH, logging PIC time per 14 CFR 61.51(e) is another story. you'll probably both be logging PIC time for the entire flight -- you under the "sole manipulator" clause (61.51(e)(1)(i)) and the instructor under the "instructor giving training" clause (61.51(e)(1)(iii)).

But what about the legal rights to the airplane, since the club would not technically let me fly the plane without the checkout?
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That's where being the PIC as opposed to logging PIC time comes in. If anything goes wrong, the club (and the club's insurer and the FAA, if it comes to that), will hold the instructor accountable as the final authority responsible for the flight.

Yes, I know it's hard to separate in your mind the concept of being PIC from the rules regarding logging PIC time, but that's the way the FAA set it up.
 
But... during primary training, when I had my student license, I wasn't allowed to log PIC while the instructor was there because I was not the sole occupant of the aircraft and I was not rated in the aircraft yet. Correct?
 
ebykowsky said:
But... during primary training, when I had my student license, I wasn't allowed to log PIC while the instructor was there because I was not the sole occupant of the aircraft and I was not rated in the aircraft yet. Correct?
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No. You were not rated for the category and class (and type if a type rating is required). Now, you are, as long as it's a land airplane with one engine, under 12,500 lb. An endorsement is not a rating. 14 CFR 61.51(e)(1)(i).
 
EdFred said:
Because a strut looks so much better in a photo. All you gotta do is slip slightly while you take a picture and the wingtip disappears. The strut is always there.
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Not in a 177...and I find I don't get all that many struts in my photos, even in a 172. In a PA28, anything behind the wingtip is obscured. It covers much less of the field of view. In particular, anything behind the wingtip will be clear. And in a 172 or 182, you can open the windows to cut down on reflections.
 
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MAKG1 said:
No. You were not rated for the category and class (and type if a type rating is required). Now, you are, as long as it's a land airplane with one engine, under 12,500 lb. An endorsement is not a rating. 14 CFR 61.51(e)(1)(i).
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Yeah, that's what I said in the post you replied to.

I wasn't allowed to log PIC while the instructor was there because I was not the sole occupant of the aircraft and I was not rated in the aircraft yet. Correct?
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ebykowsky said:
But... during primary training, when I had my student license, I wasn't allowed to log PIC while the instructor was there because I was not the sole occupant of the aircraft and I was not rated in the aircraft yet. Correct?
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Yes, correct.
 
So for those of you who fly an archer or arrow, what's the little grey lever looking thing to the right of the throttle quadrant?
N2806M-Panel.jpg


This is the exact archer I'll be in.
 
ebykowsky said:
So for those of you who fly an archer or arrow, what's the little grey lever looking thing to the right of the throttle quadrant?
N2806M-Panel.jpg


This is the exact archer I'll be in.
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Friction lock for the levers. Mine has push-pull, and I prefer them.

I THINK the silver knob just left of the throttle is carb heat. But it's been a LONG time since I was in a throttle-quadrant Piper.
 
Gotta say, I really like the look of a throttle quadrant; makes me feel like I'm flying a jet! (A jet with a prop that gets 110kts cruise) Overall, I love the cockpit in this girl, and I can't wait to get in and go flying!
 
The round silver knob to the left of the throttle quadrant is the primer. The aluminum lever to the right of the mixture control is the friction lock for the throttle quadrant and the barely visible lever just to the right of the friction lock is the carb heat or in the case of my Arrow Alternate Air
 
tmyers said:
The round silver knob to the left of the throttle quadrant is the primer. The aluminum lever to the right of the mixture control is the friction lock for the throttle quadrant and the barely visible lever just to the right of the friction lock is the carb heat or in the case of my Arrow Alternate Air
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This one I think is alt air to the right as well; silver knob looks like carb heat, and the one below that looks like primer. I may well be wrong.
 
The same knob is used for either alt air ( fuel injected arrow, lance, etc) or carb heat ( carb Cherokees, etc)
 
I don't know what the silver and black knob is but I am positive the silver one that is partially hidden by the throttle handle is the primer
 
Left to right Primer, Throttle, Mixture, Friction Lock, Carb Heat
 
Stupid question, but do Archers have a center trim wheel with electric trim, or a ceiling mounted hand crank like older Cherokees?
 
This one has it between the seats with the flaps, I think.
 
Sac Arrow said:
Stupid question, but do Archers have a center trim wheel with electric trim, or a ceiling mounted hand crank like older Cherokees?
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The center trim trim wheel started as early as the D model Cherokee.
 
Sac Arrow said:
Stupid question, but do Archers have a center trim wheel with electric trim, or a ceiling mounted hand crank like older Cherokees?
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The 180 hp Cherokee switched from overhead crank to trim wheel between the seats with the "Cherokee D" in 1968. So anything with the name "Archer" (1974-75 for the straight-wing Cherokee Archer; 1976-present for the taper-wing Archer II and III) has the trim wheel. Electric trim was an optional item, so not all have that.

The Cherokee 140 didn't switch from overhead crank to trim wheel until 1972.
 
Sac Arrow said:
Stupid question, but do Archers have a center trim wheel with electric trim, or a ceiling mounted hand crank like older Cherokees?
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A lot of Archers, (All I have been in), have extra's like electric trim too.
 
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