Cessna to Archer transition

ebykowsky

ebykowsky

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How difficult is it to transition from a 172 to a PA28 Archer? I know the landings are a bit different, but how different? Also, what about stalls, maneuvers, and control inputs? Anything you can tell me to make the transition smoother... I'll be getting checked out in my club's Archer tomorrow and want to spend as little time as possible to get comfortable with it. They've also got a few 172s, but the low wing just looks so much cooler!
 
Once you get a feel for how the flap handle works, and very basic fuel tank management, it's all the same!
 
Two wings and an engine ;) You'll notice a bit more of a cushion when you flare. Assuming you'll have Johnson bar flaps and you'll learn fuel management since there is no BOTH position. Others will be along to tell you the myriad of ways to time the changing of the tanks. Pick a way that works for you. If I have my 296 with I let it manage the tank timing for me. Also you won't be using the carb heat like you're used to.

Have fun and enjoy
 
What they said and.......no ladder to check the tanks. :D

Cheers
 
I'd expect you will be on your own after two one hour lessons. The archer is very stable and docile.

I prefer the high wing. The main reason is because it is easy to get in and out. The trade off is that the archer will have better visibility in the pattern - a little easier to spot other airplanes.

Fuel management is up to you. Just don't forget! The POH for the warrior has a recommended management/switching procedure. I'd guess the archer has one too.
 
I did this transition at about 100 hours. I did two quick flights with an instructor, maybe 2 hours total, almost entirely focused on the new sight picture for landing.. Everything else is about the same when airborne, except flaps and fuel management.
 
The plan is an hour-1.5 in the archer, then two touch and go's in the 172S. Even though I've been flying a 172 for all my training, they still want to check me out in it. Makes sense.
Wow though, I didn't know about the fuel tanks like that, it's gonna take some getting used to.

What is the flap lever like? Is it the little handle to the right of the throttle column?
Also, it's a 71 model. Would it be direct inject? Why no carb heat if not? I'm used to not using carb heat so that would be nice...

Finally, if you have a technique for fuel tank switching, specifically so you don't forget to do it, I'd love to hear it.
 
ebykowsky said:
The plan is an hour-1.5 in the archer, then two touch and go's in the 172S. Even though I've been flying a 172 for all my training, they still want to check me out in it. Makes sense.
Wow though, I didn't know about the fuel tanks like that, it's gonna take some getting used to.

What is the flap lever like? Is it the little handle to the right of the throttle column?
Also, it's a 71 model. Would it be direct inject? Why no carb heat if not? I'm used to not using carb heat so that would be nice...

Finally, if you have a technique for fuel tank switching, specifically so you don't forget to do it, I'd love to hear it.
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The flap lever is like an emergency brake between the seats. You are going to love it. Fuel management isn't a big issue. Switch every half hour for longer flights and for shorter flights, just switch tanks at your destination (one tank going and one coming).

It is a great plane and easy to fly.
 
Not hard at all. It's easier to fly in all respects except fuel management. Not great for photos, though, as every one will have a wingtip in it.
 
MAKG1 said:
Not hard at all. It's easier to fly in all respects except fuel management. Not great for photos, though, as every one will have a wingtip in it.
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I like the wingtip. It gives context to the photos. :)
 
Switching tanks isn't a big deal, if it has a 496 or something in it, you can even tell it to remind you at an interval "switch tanks"... Just turn the fuel pump on, switch tanks, and do it at a prudent point in the flight, just in case.. Then shut the fuel pump off.
 
sounds like an exciting situation to be in! the pipers do 'look' awesome, compared to a cessna.
 
Not difficult at all -- maybe an hour on the ground to learn the systems and preflight, and hour and a half in the plane to explore all the aspects if you're already a proficient 172 pilot. However, to me, checkouts take as long as they take, not a minute more or less. We're done when you can fly the plane safely and proficiently, whether that takes 45 minutes or two days. If some told me they "want to spend as little time as possible to get comfortable with it," I would explain my philosophy on that, and if they didn't seem to get it, might tell them to find another instructor for the checkout so we don't have a problem with mismatched expectations later.
 
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ebykowsky said:
What is the flap lever like? Is it the little handle to the right of the throttle column?
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No. It's the big honkin' lever on the floor between the seats.
Also, it's a 71 model. Would it be direct inject?
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Archers have carburetors, not fuel injection.

Why no carb heat if not? I'm used to not using carb heat so that would be nice...
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It has carb heat. But you don't use it all the time you're below cruise power like you do on a Continental engine 172, only "as required".

Finally, if you have a technique for fuel tank switching, specifically so you don't forget to do it, I'd love to hear it.
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In my Tiger, I keep a flight alarm in my Garmin 530 which comes up "OPS CHECK" every 30 minutes. Others use their analog clock -- when the minute had is in the right half of the face (i.e., the 3-o'clock side), they run the right tank; when it's on the left side, they use the left tank. Others keep a small digital kitchen timer on a 30-minute countdown and switch tanks when it rings. I'm sure there are plenty of other techniques, too.

BTW, one hint that you need to switch tanks is when you find you're holding a lot of aileron pressure to keep the wings level -- probably a fuel imbalance due to running too long on one tank (but don't rely on this for normal tank switching).
 
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It was a snap for me (actually 172 to Cherokee 140). Just some review of the POH on my own time, an extended preflight lesson, and about an hour in the air.
 
Ok, thanks guys! Yeah, really looking forward to the Archer. The cockpit looks really cool and it will be a good stepping stone to the club's Arrow. I kind of like the idea of having more stuff to think about while flying.

One more Q: how is the Piper on soft-field TOL's? And would you recommend doing them with an instructor before trying them on my own, assuming I'm using a C172 which I'm pretty comfortable with?
 
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ebykowsky said:
One more Q: how is the Piper on soft-field TOL's?
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Biggest problem is being able to see over the nose.
And would you recommend doing them with an instructor before trying them on my own,
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Yes. In fact, you won't complete a checkout with me without doing them, at least on a paved runway if there's no unpaved field nearby.
assuming I'm using a C172 which I'm pretty comfortable with?
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Different look, different feel.
 
X3 Skier said:
What they said and.......no ladder to check the tanks. :D

Cheers
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Down side is getting on your hands and knees to sump the fuel tanks. There is always a trade off. I keep a knee cushion like one you would use in a garden to kneel on. Saves my knees and my pants from damage.
 
MAKG1 said:
Not hard at all. It's easier to fly in all respects except fuel management. Not great for photos, though, as every one will have a wingtip in it.
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If you bank steep enough it makes for great photos. :yikes:
 
Ron Levy said:
Biggest problem is being able to see over the nose.
Yes. In fact, you won't complete a checkout with me without doing them, at least on a paved runway if there's no unpaved field nearby.
Different look, different feel.
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Yeah, I mean, I've done tons of shoft field landings in the 172 on paved, hard runways, I'm talking about doing them on an actual gravel/weedy field in it. I would not want to take the Archer out for the first time on one--but how different is landing a 172 on gravel/grass in reality than a practice soft field landing on a 5000x100ft asphalt runway?
 
ebykowsky said:
Yeah, I mean, I've done tons of shoft field landings in the 172 on paved, hard runways, I'm talking about doing them on an actual gravel/weedy field in it. I would not want to take the Archer out for the first time on one--but how different is landing a 172 on gravel/grass in reality than a practice soft field landing on a 5000x100ft asphalt runway?
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The landings aren't as much different as the takeoffs. In any event, if at all possible, I do actual soft field work including both landings and takeoffs with taxiing in between on an actual grass runway as part of the checkout.
 
Ron Levy said:
BTW, one hint that you need to switch tanks is when you find you're holding a lot of aileron pressure to keep the wings level -- probably a fuel imbalance due to running too long on one tank (but don't rely on this for normal tank switching).
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Or when the big fan stops. :D
 
tmyers said:
Down side is getting on your hands and knees to sump the fuel tanks. There is always a trade off. I keep a knee cushion like one you would use in a garden to kneel on. Saves my knees and my pants from damage.
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hmmm, I guess I'm flexible enough to crouch down and sump the tanks. I never had to get on my knees to check sump the tanks or check the tires/brakes on my 140. Maybe being only 5' 8" helps.
 
When I was working on my ppl I spent years doing it. I think I first flew a piper 140. Then flew a grumman tiger. Then flew a piper tomahawk. Then a cessna150. Then a cessna 172. I bought a 172 to finish and still own it. Then I bought a Comanche and kept it on a grass field. Always thought flying the Comanche made me a better pilot. Sold that and bought a cessna 205 as wanted to be able to haul as much as a suburban. Probably my all around favorite plane. Can't imagine not having my flying minivan. Then last summer took tour with the cessna 172 club thru the cessna plant in independence Kansas and they had a Corvallis there. I told my wife no need to look at those as we will never have one of those. Well guess what's parked in my hanger now. So I may fly two planes in a day. High wing and low wing. Pedal steering and nose castor ing steering. They are all airplanes that fly pretty much the same. I have a checklist in each plane I go thru so I don't forget and no problems. It's still fun to fly the 172 as it is slow,(relatively) and cheap and just plain fun. I miss the view of the ground when flying the low wings but enjoy the ability to see traffic in them. It will be great for you to be able to fly both for availability of a plane. You won't have any trouble with the transition. I always try to get the operating handbook to read thru couple times before getting in new to me plane. The faster the plane the more hours in them the insurance company wants you to have for you to be insured. You may run into that on your transition.
 
MAKG1 said:
Not hard at all. It's easier to fly in all respects except fuel management. Not great for photos, though, as every one will have a wingtip in it.
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Because a strut looks so much better in a photo. All you gotta do is slip slightly while you take a picture and the wingtip disappears. The strut is always there.
 
tmyers said:
Down side is getting on your hands and knees to sump the fuel tanks. There is always a trade off. I keep a knee cushion like one you would use in a garden to kneel on. Saves my knees and my pants from damage.
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I never had to get on my knees. I did assume the role of Johnny Bench for a couple seconds.
 
EdFred said:
Because a strut looks so much better in a photo. All you gotta do is slip slightly while you take a picture and the wingtip disappears. The strut is always there.
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:D

DSC02945_zpse083b947.jpg
 
And view from the pilot seat leaned ahead a tad.

259415_10150204900883218_4554461_o_zpsafbe6a44.jpg
 
I like the Cardinal but have never been able to fly one that was well maintained. Rented one a few times but there were so many squawks on that bird it just didn't turn out to be a good airplane to rent. I did like the huge doors on it, but don't let go of it in s lot of wind.
 
EdFred said:
I never had to get on my knees. I did assume the role of Johnny Bench for a couple seconds.
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tmyers said:
Down side is getting on your hands and knees to sump the fuel tanks. There is always a trade off. I keep a knee cushion like one you would use in a garden to kneel on. Saves my knees and my pants from damage.
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What you need my friend is one of these in the hanger to perform maintenance while sitting on your butt!! Its the perfect hieght for a LOT of stuff and way more stable than an office chair.


http://www.walmart.com/ip/15423455?...1=g&wl2=&wl3=13690872670&wl4=&wl5=pla&veh=sem
 
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EdFred said:
Lotta wing in that picture.
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Never the less its a piece of cake shooting out the side windows.

I did intentionally shoot the wing in that one to give a reference for where the airplane parts are for those who have never seen it themselves. Like this one. Pretty much what you see looking over left shoulder. Lotta unobstructed view. With camera horizontal, that stuff dissapears.

257784_10150204907793218_8231869_o_zps2298eaea.jpg
 
EppyGA said:
Or when the big fan stops. :D
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Unless both tanks were pretty low, I think you'd notice the imbalance in a
Tiger long before the lower tank ran dry. And I'd be needing to pee long before both tanks got that low. :wink2:
 
bnt83 said:
Never the less its a piece of cake shooting out the side windows.

I did intentionally shoot the wing in that one to give a reference for where the airplane parts are for those who have never seen it themselves. Like this one. Pretty much what you see looking over left shoulder. Lotta unobstructed view. With camera horizontal, that stuff dissapears.
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I have quite a few hours in a Cardinal. I don't mind them so much, but I don't like turning right to turn left.
 
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