Cessna Rigging

A

alexl

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Alex
Hi All...

Looking for a bit of input here. I recently purchased a C-175. The airplane flies quite well but has a slightly heavy left wing. I have been doing some research on this which basically states check rudder rigging, Flap Rigging, Aileron rigging and if all else fails, adjust the rear spar cam to change the angle of attack on the wing. With this in mind, i went back out to the airport to check out what i could visually inspect on the airplane. I found something that i am appalled i did not catch in pre-buy. It appears that the left wing has already been lowered to at least close to it's maximum angle of attack. So much so that a small notch was cut out of the door to clear the tank sump! It appears that the right wing is in the "nominal" position. Obviously i need to get this to my mechanic to check out. I am hoping that an incompetent mechanic went straight for the angle of attach adjustment, and the fix here is as simple as resetting both wings to nominal, re-rig control surfaces and then make minor changes to the angle of attach to fine tune. However, having just purchased the airplane, i have a tendency to be paranoid and go straight to the worst case... so the only thing i have been thinking all day is the entire left wing is screwed and will need replacement or rebuild. Anyone else experience something like this? Again- I DID have a mechanic inspect the airplane and i did my own inspection as well... cant believe this was missed. Alas, what is done is done - and now it's time to fix!
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I know you feel bad enough, but how does someone miss THAT!?
 
was focused on internal corrosion and engine health. A case of "Cant see the forest for the trees", it is a mistake i will not make again. So long as this is a case of poor rigging and an even worse bandaid, i will count my blessings.
 
For 1 thing it has the wrong sump drain installed.
the next thing check the vertical for proper off set.
next check the flap travel.
the full up on one side and full down on the other tells me the fuselage is bent.
 
Tom-D said:
For 1 thing it has the wrong sump drain installed.
the next thing check the vertical for proper off set.
next check the flap travel.
the full up on one side and full down on the other tells me the fuselage is bent.
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yikes... trying to be a bit optimistic and not jump quite to that conclusion yet...

Thanks for the info on the fuel sump
 
alexl said:
yikes... trying to be a bit optimistic and not jump quite to that conclusion yet...

Thanks for the info on the fuel sump
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easy to check. get out the tape measure, and start comparing sides.
 
If they put the wrong drains in it, and they fit, you may have the wrong tanks. That would be a real PITA
 
Whatever the result Alexi, you've got a great attitude. Hopefully not this worst case discussion.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk
 
Alex, where are you? If within striking distance of Fort Worth or Jackson,TN then you're in luck. There's a Cessna rigging specialist in both places. Paul New in Jackson and John Efinger in Ft. Worth.

I'm sure there are a few more good ones out there (where's Adam Halop these days?) but these two are far better than the typical run of the mill A&P who has taken the Cessna rigging class and now thinks he's an expert. I know a few of those to but I'll keep their names in my back pocket.
 
SkyDog58 said:
The genius who cut that door to clear the fuel drain certainly should be recognized by the FAA for his creativity. Wow!
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Crazy!
He could so easily just placarded the door, “Depress fuel drain before opening this door!”
 
No kidding. It is a small notch, and while a REALLY sketchy bandaid, with no logbook entry (none for the wing adjustment either), I do not believe I to be any airworthiness issue. However, if a mechanic disagrees at annual, at least doors are relatively inexpensive from a salvage yard. What I am more concerned about is the wing. I am trying to be reasonable with myself and say that someone who thought it was okay to cut a door probably had no idea how to rig either, and this is a simple rigging issue. However, my overactive mind likes to keep me up at night with worst case Scenarios
 
Tom-D said:
For 1 thing it has the wrong sump drain installed..
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Yeah I've never seen a Cessna fuel valve stick out so far. My guess is that they wouldn't have had to cut the door if the correct one was installed, even with that wing rigged all the way down.
 
Well I can feel your pain. If you want any hope of solving this, I'd recommend starting with the Cessna rigging experts as Tim suggests. Mine flies right wing low and always has. There was an aileron tab on it when I bought it which masked the issue some. I have spent some dollars and effort getting it to straighten up including having the wing angle bolts at their full stops and dropping a flap some. The one thing we haven't done is had a competent Cessna rigger get everything perfect first, and then start tweaking. I have had some incompetent A&Ps try. Since I'm VFR only, I'm resolved for now that the twitch in my left wrist every few seconds to pick up the low wing is by now muscle memory. Live & learn.
 
alexl said:
No kidding. It is a small notch, and while a REALLY sketchy bandaid, with no logbook entry (none for the wing adjustment either), I do not believe I to be any airworthiness issue. However, if a mechanic disagrees at annual, at least doors are relatively inexpensive from a salvage yard. What I am more concerned about is the wing. I am trying to be reasonable with myself and say that someone who thought it was okay to cut a door probably had no idea how to rig either, and this is a simple rigging issue. However, my overactive mind likes to keep me up at night with worst case Scenarios
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Of course it isn't in the logbook. Mechanics or owners (most likely the latter) who do such shoddy shade tree stupid things, do not typically log them. What I really wonder about is how many annuals it has gone through in this condition without being gigged. Both the door notch and the incorrect fuel drain stick out like a sore thumb and should have been caught during any inspection. I'd be very concerned about the overall condition of the aircraft and what other shortcuts have been taken.
 
alexl said:
No kidding. It is a small notch, and while a REALLY sketchy bandaid, with no logbook entry (none for the wing adjustment either), I do not believe I to be any airworthiness issue. However, if a mechanic disagrees at annual, at least doors are relatively inexpensive from a salvage yard.
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I hear that it's a real PITA to get a salvage door to fit another plane. Seems there was some custom work done at manufacturing to make the doors fit each fuselage snugly.
 
Studying the picture, I seem to think that the tank is setting too low in the wing, I don't recall ever seeing that much of the tank drain fitting sticking out of the wing's lower skin.
You can pay a lot at some fancy rigging shop that will do the same thing as the A&P following the book, It's not brain surgery, one step at a time, block one, step one, do the whole procedure, don't start in the middle and think every other thing is right.
 
timwinters said:
Wow, hasn't been flown for at least 25 years. Tied down outside with no tail feathers on it. Parts? Maybe...

Current bid is $9k, already too much...unless someone's buying it for the engine.
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Good gears and bushings for that gear box are now selling for way more than that.
That aircraft as a whole ain't worth hauling away. unless you need parts
 
SkyDog58 said:
Of course it isn't in the logbook. Mechanics or owners (most likely the latter) who do such shoddy shade tree stupid things, do not typically log them. What I really wonder about is how many annuals it has gone through in this condition without being gigged. Both the door notch and the incorrect fuel drain stick out like a sore thumb and should have been caught during any inspection. I'd be very concerned about the overall condition of the aircraft and what other shortcuts have been taken.
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I get it, when any inspector saw the notch in the door, why didn't that lead to an investigation as to "WHY"?
But to the rigging, My big question is, Why is it that way? and it flys good that way? It is compensating for something, "WHAT"? This may be some thing as simple as a flap or aileron adjustment.
But there again this aircraft might be bent, it takes very little to do this
 
Tom-D said:
I get it, when any inspector saw the notch in the door, why didn't that lead to an investigation as to "WHY"?
But to the rigging, My big question is, Why is it that way? and it flys good that way? It is compensating for something, "WHAT"? This may be some thing as simple as a flap or aileron adjustment.
But there again this aircraft might be bent, it takes very little to do this
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I question how far the rigging is actually off. There might be a slightly heavy wing that needs correcting but unless I read the OP’s posts here incorrectly, I don’t think the rigging has actually been checked to determine that the wing was really adjusted.

I suspect there are two different problems going on here. As you mentioned earlier, the tank seems to be sitting low within the wing. I’d figure out why the tank is sitting low to start with, then have a look at the rigging after the tank problems are addressed. My guess is that the wing hasn’t been adjusted at all...
 
Sounds like the plane is in the right owner’s hands to get things back to where they need to be (or better). When are you going to get it looked at? Staying tuned for some results/answers.
 
Will do.

Tom- I agree, the tank seams to have fallen low in the wing, which is one problem (good thing I just filled it to the brim 1/2 hour ago...

The left wing is certainly lower than the right wing when measured from the door opening. However, it appears that the right flap is lower than the left, effectively counter-acting the left wing adjustment. Of course this is all conjecture until I get it in the shop. I can get it up to Tennessee if necessary, but there is a mechanic here in east Georgia that restores these things, and he says he can take care of it. I also have a maintenance manual that I will study. I would like to take care of this myself under the watchful eye of an expert. Nothing like learning the airplane by getting a little greasy.

I really don't feel that the fuselage is bent, but then, this is a 60 year old bird. Staying optimistic for now...
 
Your plane isn't out of rig, it's just that drain adding so much drag! :)

Good luck, hopefully the solution isn't too painful.
 
That's just it, while there is obviously some unlogged items, I also have a large binder full of all the receipts, invoices, 337s, stc, etc. Very carefully filed. It is very strange. In some instances, previous owners were very careful and meticulous, in others, they obviously looked the other way
 
SkyDog58 said:
I am thinking very little was logged by whoever maintained it.
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Which is not uncommon. You’d swear light airplanes never need work if the number of logbooks I’ve seen with minimal maintenance documented in them is any indicator.

Yet for some reason people get all wound up about buying an airplane with missing logs. As if the missing logs would actually tell them something...
 
alexl said:
That's just it, while there is obviously some unlogged items, I also have a large binder full of all the receipts, invoices, 337s, stc, etc. Very carefully filed. It is very strange. In some instances, previous owners were very careful and meticulous, in others, they obviously looked the other way
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It’s a common occurrence. Owners often don’t know what documentation needs to be retained and what doesn’t. They often save the wrong things or don’t push for the proper log entries.
 
mondtster said:
I question how far the rigging is actually off. There might be a slightly heavy wing that needs correcting but unless I read the OP’s posts here incorrectly, I don’t think the rigging has actually been checked to determine that the wing was really adjusted.

I suspect there are two different problems going on here. As you mentioned earlier, the tank seems to be sitting low within the wing. I’d figure out why the tank is sitting low to start with, then have a look at the rigging after the tank problems are addressed. My guess is that the wing hasn’t been adjusted at all...
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That is the biggest problem we have with internet trouble shooting, We don't really know what is happening.
 
SkyDog58 said:
I think a lot of missing logs did not go missing accidentally.
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There is an old and tired joke about the A&P keeping the logs, and telling the owner, "if you crash, I'm going to throw these in the fire".
 
alexl said:
That's just it, while there is obviously some unlogged items, I also have a large binder full of all the receipts, invoices, 337s, stc, etc. Very carefully filed. It is very strange. In some instances, previous owners were very careful and meticulous, in others, they obviously looked the other way
Click to expand...

Keep the 337s and STC, throw the rest away.
Then Get ADlog and verify every AD in their package. and start the new binder from the Tach Time on the TACH

And state on the first page of the maintenance record.
This maintenance record started on "__DATE__" at TACH __NUMBER __. and is record "_#_"
After that you can pretty much keep just one binder.
 
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