Cessna 210L

C

chickenwing

Filing Flight Plan
Joined
Feb 6, 2015
Messages
2
Display Name
Display name:
chickenwing
I work for a bankruptcy trustee and in one of our cases we have a Cessna 210L. At the moment, I am trying to determine a range of values to present to the trustee, so we can decide on how or whether to proceed with seizure and sale.

I unfortunately know very little about aircraft and have spoken to several people about it, but they may have an interest in it, so I want to make sure I am not being lowballed out of the gate.

While the plane looks to be in pretty good shape to my untrained eye, I realize that it has 2 major issues: 1) no logbooks and 2) it was last flown 12 years ago and parked. So I don't know whether I am looking at something that can be repaired/fixed/updated and flown, or whether I am looking at scrap/parts value at this point.

Here is a link to 3 photos

Any help or insight as to where I might go to find this info would be appreciated. Thank you,
 
I would say your 2 major issues listed are top 1 and 2 kiss-of-death items for any kind of decent price ... but more knowledgeable folks should be along shortly.
 
12 years and no logs?....you'll be happy if they come and truck it away.

it's a mechanic's special......worth about $25-35K

then again....it might have liens on it too.:dunno:
 
Last edited:
Thank you. This is the type of info I was looking for.
 
Checkout_my_Six said:
12 years and no logs?....you'll be happy if they come and truck it away.

it's a mechanic's special......worth about $25-35K

then again....it might have liens on it too.:dunno:
Click to expand...

I would hardly say its scrap :rolleyes2:


That said with that panel, no logs (BIIIG problem), and sitting for over a decade, 25-35 might even be optimistic shy of a sweet engine conversion or something.

Besides you might not even be able to touch the plane in the first place, check here for liens,

http://aircraft.faa.gov/e.gov/ND/

The registered owner of the plane I just bought maybe owned 10% of the plane! even though according to the registration he was the only one listed.


Order the CD, you might end up giving it to a diffrent bank anyways.
 
No logs.... Honestly, I'd sell it to a scrap yard. Think of it like this....


You can buy a purebred dog worth, say, $2500 on the up and up with papers, bloodline and verifiable Ch. history. Or you can buy what you are told is a purebred, but nobody knows who the sire is and the bithc is not papered. Its really only worth pet value, which may be $500 on a good day.

A plane w/o logs is doomed and has "part out" values.
 
Unit74 said:
No logs.... Honestly, I'd sell it to a scrap yard. Think of it like this....


You can buy a purebred dog worth, say, $2500 on the up and up with papers, bloodline and verifiable Ch. history. Or you can buy what you are told is a purebred, but nobody knows who the sire is and the bithc is not papered. Its really only worth pet value, which may be $500 on a good day.

A plane w/o logs is doomed and has "part out" values.
Click to expand...



Why is No Logs = Scrap Value?


Great, no logs on an engine that hasn't ran for 12 years, price the plane with needing an overhaul.

No logs on an airframe? Price the plane needing a bunch of ADs researched and complied with.

Not sure what is specific on a 210L, but many ADs could be knocked out in an "extensive" annual.

(Not sure what the gear would entail.)


The point is, logbooks from the 60's-70's, and 80's are entertaining reading, but, at the end of the day, they aren't show stoppers if they are lost.

The more recent entries, just assume everything needs checked.

What is the value of this 210 if it had complete logs, showing 3 gear ups, plus compliance on all ADs on a run out engine?
 
JoseCuervo said:
Why is No Logs = Scrap Value?


Great, no logs on an engine that hasn't ran for 12 years, price the plane with needing an overhaul.

No logs on an airframe? Price the plane needing a bunch of ADs researched and complied with.

Not sure what is specific on a 210L, but many ADs could be knocked out in an "extensive" annual.

(Not sure what the gear would entail.)


The point is, logbooks from the 60's-70's, and 80's are entertaining reading, but, at the end of the day, they aren't show stoppers if they are lost.

The more recent entries, just assume everything needs checked.

What is the value of this 210 if it had complete logs, showing 3 gear ups, plus compliance on all ADs on a run out engine?
Click to expand...
Maybe the bigger question is 'is it worth the effort?'

Lot of unknowns with trying to restore this one and also a lot if other 210s for sale without the same issues.
 
Send it to the scrap yard. They'll be no-hassle and give you money fast, and probably more money than anyone else. White Industries is one I like.
 
Don't even bother with proceedings, hardly worth the time in this market. The plane has nothing going for it, and unless you can get hold of the logbooks, the plane will basically be unsellable as anything but scrap and core. The plane currently has a value of about $8k and it will cost a salvor more than that to get it out of there if they need to truck it out.

What you have there is what is known as a "White Elephant."
 
JoseCuervo said:
Why is No Logs = Scrap Value?


Great, no logs on an engine that hasn't ran for 12 years, price the plane with needing an overhaul.

No logs on an airframe? Price the plane needing a bunch of ADs researched and complied with.

Not sure what is specific on a 210L, but many ADs could be knocked out in an "extensive" annual.

(Not sure what the gear would entail.)


The point is, logbooks from the 60's-70's, and 80's are entertaining reading, but, at the end of the day, they aren't show stoppers if they are lost.

The more recent entries, just assume everything needs checked.

What is the value of this 210 if it had complete logs, showing 3 gear ups, plus compliance on all ADs on a run out engine?
Click to expand...


Because the cost of compliance spread when compared to what you can buy an in annual flying one for turns the value of this against a flying copy to a negative number, i.e. It'll cost $65k and a year before I fly it, when I can buy one flying with a fresh annual for $50k today . "Scrap and Salvage" is the higher value figure than the "project plane" figure.
 
Lindberg said:
He works for the bankruptcy trustee, so that shouldn't be a problem. The liens should be wiped out by the bankruptcy.
Click to expand...

It doesn't matter, he is looking at a liability, not an asset, either way, the only difference would be how great a liability. I wouldn't attach it if I was him.
 
Henning said:
Because the cost of compliance spread when compared to what you can buy an in annual flying one for turns the value of this against a flying copy to a negative number, i.e. It'll cost $65k and a year before I fly it, when I can buy one flying with a fresh annual for $50k today . "Scrap and Salvage" is the higher value figure than the "project plane" figure.
Click to expand...


The value is then set on the $50k end state based on other flying examples, and not on the missing logs.

I would think a P-51 with missing logs (to use the extreme on the other end) would have value due to the end state.

The real issue is 210's aren't worth much, not the missing logs as many claimed above.

The Trustee is charged with maximizing the $$& to the creditors. He needs to know the maximum value. And what it would take to get there.

If it was 2 days out of annual with no logs, would you still scrap?




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Like I said, you NEED to get te FAA CD to see if you are even in a position to sell it.
 
JoseCuervo said:
The value is then set on the $50k end state based on other flying examples, and not on the missing logs.

I would think a P-51 with missing logs (to use the extreme on the other end) would have value due to the end state.

The real issue is 210's aren't worth much, not the missing logs as many claimed above.

The Trustee is charged with maximizing the $$& to the creditors. He needs to know the maximum value. And what it would take to get there.

If it was 2 days out of annual with no logs, would you still scrap?




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Call White Industries, see what they will give, heck, put a salvage bid out through the insurance pools and see what hits. It won't be the first airplane that people had to pay to get rid of. I suspect the creditors will be best served by leaving it alone.:lol:
 
Last edited:
The reality of that plane to sell it is that you will overhaul the engine, due to age and satisfying various AD inspections. Figure installed that's $32k, another $5000-$12,000 on the prop.

We haven't touched the airframe yet. We have gear saddles to inspect, hydraulic lines, pumps, flap actuators, trim actuators,all been sitting around over a decade deteriorating. If you have to pay retail pricing, by the time the airframe is in annual with a fresh set of log books, it'll be between $15-$30k. Depending on what is found in the gear saddles, you may run into a problem getting the parts you need, I don't know if that has been resolved yet or not.

The only people that would buy it will be shops looking for a project and they'll be looking at the insurance bid sheets, list the plane there and see what it does. Only thing is, they mostly bid the value of the avionics, and yours have no value.
 
Last edited:
Henning said:
The reality of that plane to sell it is that you will overhaul the engine, due to age and satisfying various AD inspections. Figure installed that's $32k, another $5000-$12,000 on the prop.



We haven't touched the airframe yet. We have gear saddles to inspect, hydraulic lines, pumps, flap actuators, trim actuators,all been sitting around over a decade deteriorating. If you have to pay retail pricing, by the time the airframe is in annual with a fresh set of log books, it'll be between $15-$30k. Depending on what is found in the gear saddles, you may run into a problem getting the parts you need, I don't know if that has been resolved yet or not.



The only people that would buy it will be shops looking for a project and they'll be looking at the insurance bid sheets, list the plane there and see what it does. Only thing is, they mostly bid the value of the avionics, and yours have no value.
Click to expand...



Trade a plane has "call for price" on the only 2 listed.....



If it is a T210L, and we don't know that it isn't, they are listed for $99k on up.
 
James331 said:
Like I said, you NEED to get te FAA CD to see if you are even in a position to sell it.
Click to expand...



Do you understand how bankruptcies work?

Do you think filing a lien on an airplane puts you in a better priority position than all the other creditors in the filing?
 
JoseCuervo said:
Trade a plane has "call for price" on the only 2 listed.....



If it is a T210L, and we don't know that it isn't, they are listed for $99k on up.
Click to expand...

If it was a T-210L they said Turbo Centurion IIRC, there was enough hub bub about fueling errors confusing Turbine that a lot of people removed the Turbo, however that's been within the past 12 years. I can't see the instruments well enough to see the red line MP. If it is a T-210L it may bring $10-$15k as is.
Anybody that wants to deal with it in this market will want to steal it so they can make some money.
 
Henning said:
If it was a T-210L they said Turbo Centurion IIRC, there was enough hub bub about fueling errors confusing Turbine that a lot of people removed the Turbo, however that's been within the past 12 years. I can't see the instruments well enough to see the red line MP. If it is a T-210L it may bring $10-$15k as is.

Anybody that wants to deal with it in this market will want to steal it so they can make some money.
Click to expand...



And that is what the OP is asking for, are the people who have expressed interest really "stealing", which the Trustee has a duty to not allow happen, or, is this plane a "steal" to the right person, but, for the most part, due to the market for 210L, the best use for the Trustee, who answers to a Judge, is to sell to Scrappers.
 
JoseCuervo said:
Do you understand how bankruptcies work?

Do you think filing a lien on an airplane puts you in a better priority position than all the other creditors in the filing?
Click to expand...

If this dead best owed a bunch of people money it might behoove you to know, might even work to your advantage if someone else has a interest in the plane.

Ether way without the CD you're approaching this half cocked at best.
 
Last edited:
James331 said:
If this dead best owned a bunch of people money it might behoove you to know, might even work to your advantage if someone else has a interest in the plane.



Ether way without the CD you're approaching this half cocked at best.
Click to expand...



Which part of that is English?
 
JoseCuervo said:
Which part of that is English?
Click to expand...

Autocorrect...ether way I'd image if you can operate a computer you should be smart enough to understand the point I was making.
 
James331 said:
Autocorrect...ether way I'd image if you can operate a computer you should be smart enough to understand the point I was making.
Click to expand...



No, that is why I asked.

Nobody has to be dead for a bankruptcy. So, not sure what your trying to communicate.


Do you think liens filed on a plane will trump the other creditors in the bankruptcy filing?
 
JoseCuervo said:
And that is what the OP is asking for, are the people who have expressed interest really "stealing", which the Trustee has a duty to not allow happen, or, is this plane a "steal" to the right person, but, for the most part, due to the market for 210L, the best use for the Trustee, who answers to a Judge, is to sell to Scrappers.
Click to expand...

The only offers he will get are people "trying to steal it", and it will only be possible to steal and give money for if it is a T-210L. Otherwise the value is that of salvage, and the hauling cost may exceed the value.
 
JoseCuervo said:
No, that is why I asked.

Nobody has to be dead for a bankruptcy. So, not sure what your trying to communicate.


Do you think liens filed on a plane will trump the other creditors in the bankruptcy filing?
Click to expand...

Doh.

"Deadbeat"

If one of the creditors is a A&P you might be able to work a mutually beneficial deal.

Should one day I become a APIA, Id love to haul away that "scrap" for ya.
 
Last edited:
James331 said:
Doh.



"Deadbeat"



If one of the creditors is a A&P you might be able to work a mutually beneficial deal.



Should one day I become a APIA, Id love to haul away that "scrap" for ya.
Click to expand...



Again, please explain how the liens you keep wanting ordered on the CD will have senior position to other creditors in the bankruptcy.
 
Oh screw it, nevermind.
 
James331 said:
If one of the creditors is a A&P you might be able to work a mutually beneficial deal.
Click to expand...

My last A&P tried that sort of deal a few times.

You have no idea how many ADs can exist over a 40+ year period that you have absolutely no idea of and require things like a complete teardown of the engine, and basically a complete disassembly of the aircraft. You can either come away just fine or lose your shirt.

The smart thing to do is scrap it.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
My last A&P tried that sort of deal a few times.

The smart thing to do is scrap it.
Click to expand...

Not on aircraft that may have a finished selling price of over $100,000.

Remember you make your money buying, not selling.

Bring it into the shop, wash it, inspect it see what needs repair, order a used engine, start new logs, (if needed) yank the Cessna arc radios, install new windows, interior, 1 new GPS com.

1 hell of a family hauler / cross country aircraft.

$125,000 possibly.
 
Tom-D said:
Not on aircraft that may have a finished selling price of over $100,000.

Remember you make your money buying, not selling.

Bring it into the shop, wash it, inspect it see what needs repair, order a used engine, start new logs, (if needed) yank the Cessna arc radios, install new windows, interior, 1 new GPS com.

1 hell of a family hauler / cross country aircraft.

$125,000 possibly.
Click to expand...

How do you even know how many hours this thing has on its airframe? Something might turn up in the FAA CD, but maybe not.

A buyer in the $125k airplane market expects full logs, or at least mostly complete logs. A plane with NO logs is only going to be attractive to bottom feeders. I'd argue you're unlikely to find bottom feeders will to spend more than $50k.
 
chickenwing said:
I work for a bankruptcy trustee and in one of our cases we have a Cessna 210L. At the moment, I am trying to determine a range of values to present to the trustee, so we can decide on how or whether to proceed with seizure and sale. Thank you,
Click to expand...

can you give us the N number ? we can better tell you value.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
My last A&P tried that sort of deal a few times.

You have no idea how many ADs can exist over a 40+ year period that you have absolutely no idea of and require things like a complete teardown of the engine, and basically a complete disassembly of the aircraft.
Click to expand...

Actually : the FAA search says

"" Showing 1–25 of 45 airworthiness directives.""

you'd be surprised how many do not apply.
 
Tom-D said:
why so much?
Click to expand...
cause I'd bet after a weekend of doing some AD research and verification....it won't be all that bad.:D

It's really only the last 12 or 14 years that will need to be brought up to date. Years prior are likely in compliant and just needing documented and verified.
 
Checkout_my_Six said:
cause I'd bet after a weekend of doing some AD research and verification....it won't be all that bad.:D
Click to expand...

Maybe, but there has to be a profit for me, at your price you'd be breaking even. It will have to sell under 20 to make it worth while.
 
Checkout_my_Six said:
cause I'd bet after a weekend of doing some AD research and verification....it won't be all that bad.:D

It's really only the last 12 or 14 years that will need to be brought up to date. Years prior are likely in compliant and just needing documented and verified.
Click to expand...

Do we have records or no?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top