Cessna 172 insurance $3,000 a month????

DMD3.

Pre-takeoff checklist
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DMD3.
According to one of the ladies that works at the counter at our FBO, the insurance for the rental aircraft (a 1979 Skyhawk) is $3,000 a month! I've asked her if she wasn't sure if that's what it cost to insure it for a year, but she insists that that's the monthly cost.

Does this seem farfetched to anyone, even for a rental aircraft? You could simply buy another Skyhawk in 2 or 3 years with that kind of money.
 
Sounds crazy. $3000 a year would be 3x a personal insurance policy. Do they have other planes under that policy?
 
36k/yr ? I don't see how they'd have competitive rental rates and pay for fuel, maintenance, and depreciation that way. Nm make a profit.
 
That sounds like a yearly premium. She's probably confused since usually you pay the year up front, and not monthly like car insurance. Probably saw a $3k insurance bill due in a couple weeks and just assumed it was monthly.....unless they have a HORRENDOUS claim record.
 
It can't be per month. What does a very active rental fly, maybe 60 hours a month? The insurance alone would be $50/hour.
 
According to one of the ladies that works at the counter at our FBO, the insurance for the rental aircraft (a 1979 Skyhawk) is $3,000 a month! I've asked her if she wasn't sure if that's what it cost to insure it for a year, but she insists that that's the monthly cost.

Does this seem farfetched to anyone, even for a rental aircraft? You could simply buy another Skyhawk in 2 or 3 years with that kind of money.

Sense check says BS. You could probably buy some FBOs beat up 1979 Skyhawk for $36k. No way it costs that much to insure each year.

Must be an annual rate, or total bill for many aircraft.
 
According to one of the ladies that works at the counter at our FBO, the insurance for the rental aircraft (a 1979 Skyhawk) is $3,000 a month! I've asked her if she wasn't sure if that's what it cost to insure it for a year, but she insists that that's the monthly cost.

Does this seem farfetched to anyone, even for a rental aircraft? You could simply buy another Skyhawk in 2 or 3 years with that kind of money.

That is what the husband told her. to hide what he spends on his girl friend.
 
Sounds yearly, or maybe monthly for all their insurance, all planes, cars, fuel trucks, buildings, etc.
 
That sounds like a yearly premium. She's probably confused since usually you pay the year up front, and not monthly like car insurance. Probably saw a $3k insurance bill due in a couple weeks and just assumed it was monthly.....unless they have a HORRENDOUS claim record.

They have had some claims in the past with a different aircraft. They used to have a Sundowner for rent. In the past it's had a prop strike, a nosewheel damaged during landing, and most recently it purpoised with a student during a landing, damaging the prop and the engine. It's currently sitting in the hangar with the engine off, and while the manager plans to fix it and sell it eventually, it won't be anytime soon.
Sundowner are not hard to fly, but they're not the best trainers for inexperienced students. I might have wrecked it myself had I flown it during my student days.
 
They have had some claims in the past with a different aircraft. They used to have a Sundowner for rent. In the past it's had a prop strike, a nosewheel damaged during landing, and most recently it purpoised with a student during a landing, damaging the prop and the engine. It's currently sitting in the hangar with the engine off, and while the manager plans to fix it and sell it eventually, it won't be anytime soon.
Sundowner are not hard to fly, but they're not the best trainers for inexperienced students. I might have wrecked it myself had I flown it during my student days.

I suspect you're not getting good information.

If they're forced to pay $36,000/year for insurance, they need to get out of the aircraft rental market.
 
When I was involved in leasebacks, the rates pretty much followed hull value. We were paying about $4500/year for $50000 hull.
 
Yeah because FBO girls are hired for their brains.... Most likely she doesn't understand, and even if she did know I do t think she should be telling the general public
 
According to one of the ladies that works at the counter at our FBO, the insurance for the rental aircraft (a 1979 Skyhawk) is $3,000 a month! I've asked her if she wasn't sure if that's what it cost to insure it for a year, but she insists that that's the monthly cost.

Does this seem farfetched to anyone, even for a rental aircraft? You could simply buy another Skyhawk in 2 or 3 years with that kind of money.

More like $3k to $4k per year. Which still isn't pocket change.

Just having an aircraft "available" for rent costs us a fixed of about $500/mo per 172 (insurance, hangar).

Variable costs go up as well, since we have have about $12/hr that goes towards the 100/hr we wouldn't have to do if we weren't renting it. Plus the fact that you have to put new tires on at pretty much every hundred hour, sometimes you don't even make it that long.

Renting airplanes isn't "cheap" but it sure the hell isn't $3k to $4k per month in insurance.
 
According to one of the ladies that works at the counter at our FBO, the insurance for the rental aircraft (a 1979 Skyhawk) is $3,000 a month! I've asked her if she wasn't sure if that's what it cost to insure it for a year, but she insists that that's the monthly cost.

Does this seem farfetched to anyone, even for a rental aircraft? You could simply buy another Skyhawk in 2 or 3 years with that kind of money.

3k per month would be 36k per year. That would just about buy some 172s.
 
According to one of the ladies that works at the counter at our FBO, the insurance for the rental aircraft (a 1979 Skyhawk) is $3,000 a month! I've asked her if she wasn't sure if that's what it cost to insure it for a year, but she insists that that's the monthly cost.

Does this seem farfetched to anyone, even for a rental aircraft? You could simply buy another Skyhawk in 2 or 3 years with that kind of money.

Figure the declared value at $70k commercial insurance would be about $600mo, perhaps she is referring to a fleet policy premium with 5 or 6 planes on it. Figure commercial training is going to be around 10% insured value. CFI/Owners usually have a 5 student at a time exemption that allows them to operate on a Business/Personal policy.
 
More like $3k to $4k per year. Which still isn't pocket change.

Just having an aircraft "available" for rent costs us a fixed of about $500/mo per 172 (insurance, hangar).

Variable costs go up as well, since we have have about $12/hr that goes towards the 100/hr we wouldn't have to do if we weren't renting it. Plus the fact that you have to put new tires on at pretty much every hundred hour, sometimes you don't even make it that long.

Renting airplanes isn't "cheap" but it sure the hell isn't $3k to $4k per month in insurance.

An 100hr inspection costs $1200? Is that an error or are they really that much?
 
An 100hr inspection costs $1200? Is that an error or are they really that much?

It depends, if the FBO owns both the flight school and maintenance shop, yes they do if that is what the accounting department thinks works to their best overall tax picture. Internal billing numbers are artificial assignments that can vary in a wide range and not draw attention.
 
An 100hr inspection costs $1200? Is that an error or are they really that much?

Henning's post above does not apply to this scenario. Yes, that's about what I figure it will cost, it's no less work than an annual. When you figure that the oil is also going to get changed, the tires will probably get changed, the brakes need attention about every 200 hours, and there is bound to be something that has broke in the last hundred hours. I really try and only do maintenance during 100 hour window. This means deferring things that pop up between 100 hours if it can safely be deferred. So there is more to it then just the inspection itself.

In addition we're going to burn about $100 in avgas getting it to the airport where we do maintenance and getting us back in another airplane.

Sometimes it is less, sometimes it is more, for budgeting purposes I use $1200.

Now rental aside, some of those costs we'd still have if not renting, but we wouldn't be changing tires every hundred hours, or going through brakes so much.

Things you would do as a private owner, like owner assist, to keep costs down aren't really practical in a commercial operation. We're trying to keep up with usually 6 to 8 airplanes. If I owner assisted all the maintenance I wouldn't have time left to actually make a living. It's hard enough just to keep up with instruction, following up on leads, billing, maintenance tracking, ferrying airplanes around, retrieving ones that people get stuck places, dealing with the TSA, FAA, FBO, airport authority, and whichever other government entity will want to get involved next month.
 
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You're paying $1200 on a 172? How regularly calendar wise? Seems a lot, but haven't priced one in a long time. I'm used to them being $750-$900, $1200 maybe on a complex.
 
You're paying $1200 on a 172? How regularly calendar wise? Seems a lot, but haven't priced one in a long time. I'm used to them being $750-$900.

See above. Figure it'll take someone 10 hours or so at $70/hr. Now add oil, filter, tires, whatever has broke in the last hundred hours and there WILL be something. Add another hundred or so in ferrying costs. Pretty easy to average $1200 per 172.

I really can't ***** about the cost, since I can make a parts list a day before, send it to the A&P, drop the thing off at 6PM, and it'll be done and on the line the next day.

Very rare we have downtime that exceeds 1 to 2 days on a 100 hr / annual. Pretty stark difference compared to the amount of time an airplane goes down for private owners.

You can't have fast and cheap...and if anything is suspect where the mechanic doesn't think it'll be good for another hundred hours, that gets taken care of as well.

Downtime from maintenance will kill a rental operation faster than anything else.
 
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The FAA had a 100 hour program where you dont have to take the plane apart, as much. Should be cheaper.
 
See above. Figure it'll take someone 10 hours or so at $70/hr. Now add oil, filter, tires, whatever has broke in the last hundred hours and there WILL be something. Add another hundred or so in ferrying costs. Pretty easy to average $1200 per 172.

I really can't ***** about the cost, since I can make a parts list a day before, send it to the A&P, drop the thing off at 6PM, and it'll be done and on the line the next day.

Very rare we have downtime that exceeds 1 to 2 days on a 100 hr / annual. Pretty stark difference compared to the amount of time an airplane goes down for private owners.

You can't have fast and cheap...and if anything is suspect where the mechanic doesn't think it'll be good for another hundred hours, that gets taken care of as well.

Downtime from maintenance will kill a rental operation faster than anything else.

Yeah, when I worked for Foley and did the flight school planes, they were all 1/2 - 3/4 day 'work them into the schedule where required', because they are bread and butter jobs. They make the payroll every week while the big jobs make the overhead and profit at the end of the month, and the 'shop project' to fill slack time in the corner makes the creme.
 
Jesse's numbers are real world - maybe a little low if you are using mechanics in Dallas... for me it's 1K flat for a no-problems 100-hr and that includes NO parts. Closer to $4K for insurance than to $3K for me as well.
 
A 100 hr is an annual, here anyway. Costs are the same as an annual too, only difference is the signature. And you might as well get the annual signed off every time, just in case you need it later..
 
A 100 hr is an annual, here anyway. Costs are the same as an annual too, only difference is the signature. And you might as well get the annual signed off every time, just in case you need it later..
Yep, the shop I work with is the same way.
 
A 100 hr is an annual, here anyway. Costs are the same as an annual too, only difference is the signature. And you might as well get the annual signed off every time, just in case you need it later..

Used to be a stamp with both, circle one or the other.
 
According to one of the ladies that works at the counter at our FBO, the insurance for the rental aircraft (a 1979 Skyhawk) is $3,000 a month! I've asked her if she wasn't sure if that's what it cost to insure it for a year, but she insists that that's the monthly cost.

Does this seem farfetched to anyone, even for a rental aircraft? You could simply buy another Skyhawk in 2 or 3 years with that kind of money.

I would ask an Airplane insurance company in your area because it varies from location to location! Quotes should be free because they want your business!
 
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Now rental aside, some of those costs we'd still have if not renting, but we wouldn't be changing tires every hundred hours, or going through brakes so much..

When we went to the flight training specific retreads our tire performance doubled overnight , especially with the Cessna

To the OP the lady obviously has confused the annual premium with the monthly payment if they finance it . Monthly it should be about $300 ish a plane for commercial insurance .
 
I would ask an Airplane insurance company in your area because it varies from location to location! Quotes should be free because they want your business!

If you want to shop insurance, just remember to not identify the exact plane and pilot and call a human, don't use an online application.
 
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