Can't seem to nail the center line

Jimmy cooper said:
Your need to schedule more lessons, devoting more time to actual flying verses asking silly questions.
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And you need to devote more time to learning how to spell before making silly remarks.
 
pilot_dude said:
And you make that judgment after what, 5 hours of total training? Yep, that makes you acutely aware of who is good and who is horrible :rolleyes:
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I think my observation is pretty accurate when I get better advice on this website than from my own CFI's.
 
Hocky said:
I think my observation is pretty accurate when I get better advice on this website than from my own CFI's.
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Or you express concerns better in written form than verbal.
 
This is what his CFI is saying...


Hocky said:
My CFI told me to look at the end of the runway but to be honest I can't do that I feel the need to look where I'm landing not into the distance.
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RoscoeT said:
Yeah, forget all that mess - it will have you focusing on the wrong things at a bad time. Just pretend the airplane around you doesn't exist and just line your ass up with the centerline. If you're landing 3' off, that will get you very close - like probably a foot. You can perfect it from there. Look far down the runway. It's just a practice and sight picture issue. Somehow we learn to drive cars down the center of the lane even though we sit a little off center...even more off center in cars.
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Brought back a memory of an ex-GF that used to drive right on the double yellow....tires on it. I used to cringe while sitting in the passenger seat with her driving - her car only, only let her drive mine once and that was enough.

Needless to say, I drove most of the time we went places.
 
Hocky said:
I think my observation is pretty accurate when I get better advice on this website than from my own CFI's.
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Well there's your fix. Get this website to sign you off for solo and the check ride. Good luck out there.

BTW, if you don't like you CFI then get another. If the flight school doesn't have any you like find another. If none of them have any CFI's that you like get a freelance CFI.
 
I make my students say "centerline, centerline, centerline" on repeat the entire pattern, touching down, and rolling out to a complete stop. Do that about twice and they don't miss the centerline anymore.

Generally people just stop thinking about holding the centerline during their flare / round out and miss. Then after they touch down they realize it. Being aware the entire time fixes that.
 
It's actually exactly the same as driving a car. If you tried to stay in the center of a lane by looking only 10 feet in front of you and trying to keep the car (rather than you) centered, you'd be off to the left of the lane too.
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__________________

Back when I was having trouble landing, Mr. Evelyn Johnson of Morristown, TN, one of the most experienced CFI's around, told me to look down the runway about like you would when driving a car. That fixed my landing problem. I think Mark hit the nail on the head.
 
midlifeflyer said:
No. By the time you are in the flare, the nose should not be skewed. But it looks skewed when it is straight ahead because of parallax.

It's actually exactly the same as driving a car. If you tried to stay in the center of a lane by looking only 10 feet in front of you and trying to keep the car (rather than you) centered, you'd be off to the left of the lane too.
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That's right. So, aside from how high the nose is, and how high above the runway you are, best to put the centerline in your crosshairs, and forget the nose.

After all, who looks at the hood of their car to stay lined up in a lane on the road?
 
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jesse said:
I make my students say "centerline, centerline, centerline" on repeat the entire pattern, touching down, and rolling out to a complete stop. Do that about twice and they don't miss the centerline anymore.

Generally people just stop thinking about holding the centerline during their flare / round out and miss. Then after they touch down they realize it. Being aware the entire time fixes that.
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Exactly. This is what I was getting at in my earlier post. I found that during much of my training, I had to "just do it", and that my ability to do so got better as my training progressed and the firehose subsided.
 
spiderweb said:
After all, who looks at the hood of their car to stay lined up in a lane on the road?
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So true. But where would internet forums be, if not for those who so overcomplicate the basics of flying a little tin can airplane. ;)
 
RoscoeT said:
So true. But where would internet forums be, if not for those who so overcomplicate the basics of flying a little tin can airplane. ;)
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Thank you Sir, for coming on down from whichever great place you were at to come and mingle with us simple folk in our little tin can airplanes.

:lol:
 
Bob Noel said:
My instrument instructor was somewhat frustrated that I didn't land on the centerline of a 200' wide runway.

Soooooo, he took me to Tewmac's 26' wide runway. And of course I landed on the centerline (had to, didn't want to run his airplane into the grass on the left side).

He said "see, you can land on the centerline"

I said "see, I can land on the centerline when I need to"

I probably mostly use the left side of the runway for visual cues rather than looking down the runway.
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I remember that runway! My CFI took me in there with a C-150 Commuter II. But it was almost 40 yrs ago.
 
It's due to the parallax error, truth be told, centerline is over rated, and in a strong crosswind, I will often purposely land in the downwind corner of the runway pointed diagonally across it to reduce my crosswind angle. If you are just starting, don't worry about it a whole lot especially if your left of center is still within the center half of the runway. Someone mentioned to use a rivet on the cowl rather than the prop spinner to judge center, this is not only true for landings, but any ground reference maneuver (and long range visual Nav tracking) that references ahead. Find the rivet in front of you and note the heading at some objection the distance, now kick the left rudder to line up the prop spinner on that object and note the new heading and see how many degrees difference that creates. That is why you are left of the center. If you put the plane safely on the ground on the runway, that is your first mission, next is relatively smoothly on a consistent basis; after that start working on your spot control. Learning to fly is a process of steps, not one big one. Since you are alive writing this and not telling us about a bent airplane, you are doing fine, the finesse and accuracy will come with time and experience.
 
The key to good landings especially early, in my opinion, is to be lined up on the extended centerline when you turn from base to final. A stable and relaxed final will result in a nice landing, a rushed or unstable approach adds to the challenge.

Have your CFI demonstrate what he wants, pointing out the visual cues he is using (he should know how to explain what you want to see even though he is on the other side of the plane). Demonstrate/do where the CFI shows you what it is supposed to look like, explaining throughout, and then having you do it while talking you through it, is worth every penny assuming the CFI is even modestly good.

Good luck, don't forget to report back.

'Gimp
 
Hocky said:
Interesting. This may be what is happening to me now that you mention it.

Also just realizing my CFI's are just horrible. They're all young (in their early 20's) and I don't think really care about teaching just getting hours.
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That makes me sad. Professionalism doesn't come with hours in a logbook or ratings. Hope you are able to reach your goals as a pilot. FYI all young CFI's are not created equal. What you describe is unacceptable.
 
In the CT line of aircraft, it is very common for pilots to land left. It doesn't seem to matter if they are students or high-time pilots making the transition. The problem is probably related to the width of the cabin, the lack of a visible cowling, and the curved shape of the panel.
The problem eventually fixes itself as the pilots get used to the sight-picture. Many have reported that an indicator stuck to the windscreen has helped immensely. What I did was just take a few dots and stick them on the inside of the windscreen, showing proper alignment. I used a bit of the sticky section of a Post-It, about the size of a pencil eraser. Others have used map tape, or just a few marks from a grease pencil.
Just align the plane with a long straight line on the ground, and put the dots on the windscreen so they align with the line. Easy, quick, fix.
 
BillTIZ said:
I remember that runway! My CFI took me in there with a C-150 Commuter II. But it was almost 40 yrs ago.
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My favorite in that category is FirstAir north of Seattle. 2087 x 34 foot runway with aircraft parked along and trees on both ends. Excellent fun.
 
CT4ME said:
In the CT line of aircraft, it is very common for pilots to land left. It doesn't seem to matter if they are students or high-time pilots making the transition. The problem is probably related to the width of the cabin, the lack of a visible cowling, and the curved shape of the panel.
The problem eventually fixes itself as the pilots get used to the sight-picture. Many have reported that an indicator stuck to the windscreen has helped immensely. What I did was just take a few dots and stick them on the inside of the windscreen, showing proper alignment. I used a bit of the sticky section of a Post-It, about the size of a pencil eraser. Others have used map tape, or just a few marks from a grease pencil.
Just align the plane with a long straight line on the ground, and put the dots on the windscreen so they align with the line. Easy, quick, fix.
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I think what happens is this: Instead of solving the problem, people try fixes like these. They work for one make/model and then the pilot starts all over again in the next transition, where they find another quick fix that takes care of the symptom.

In any airplane, just align yourself with a long straight line on the ground, like a taxi line. Get out of the airplane and the nosewheel (or tailwheel) will be on the line. Then get in the other seat and the line will still be centered on you.

Go into another airplane and try it there, and another, and another, and another. Same result.
 
midlifeflyer said:
I think what happens is this: Instead of solving the problem, people try fixes like these. They work for one make/model and then the pilot starts all over again in the next transition, where they find another quick fix that takes care of the symptom.

In any airplane, just align yourself with a long straight line on the ground, like a taxi line. Get out of the airplane and the nosewheel (or tailwheel) will be on the line. Then get in the other seat and the line will still be centered on you.

Go into another airplane and try it there, and another, and another, and another. Same result.
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Uh, I don't think so. In my Flybaby, sure. In a side by side, no.
 
If landing on the center line is your biggest problem, with all the other issues flying,,, duh..
 
AcroGimp said:
The key to good landings especially early, in my opinion, is to be lined up on the extended centerline when you turn from base to final. A stable and relaxed final will result in a nice landing, a rushed or unstable approach adds to the challenge.

Have your CFI demonstrate what he wants, pointing out the visual cues he is using (he should know how to explain what you want to see even though he is on the other side of the plane). Demonstrate/do where the CFI shows you what it is supposed to look like, explaining throughout, and then having you do it while talking you through it, is worth every penny assuming the CFI is even modestly good.

Good luck, don't forget to report back.

'Gimp
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I'm always pretty well aligned right up to when I flare and then I must drift to the left because as I touch done I'm to the left. I haven't had time to fly this week yet (just getting killed at work this week) but hopefully this afternoon/evening will get a chance to see if I'm somehow pulling back and to the left with the yoke when doing the flare.
 
I had a lot of trouble when I purchased the 195 Cessna. I'd had a great deal of time in taildraggers including a Stearman I owned but the 195 was a different animal for me. Vis was very poor on landing in a three point. It took quite some time to do a decent three point and I eventually sold it. Wheel landing it was much easier but dicey on roll out. I've seen others land them with no problems, then others including an airline captain who lost it in a 20 mph cross wind, collapsed the gear and ruined one.
 
jesse said:
Uh, I don't think so. In my Flybaby, sure. In a side by side, no.
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Give it a try. It works. So long as you look at the ground a normal distance away and not on the ground 5' in front of the airplane. It's simply the way our eyes work.

I love teaching this the first time to new students. I simply tell them to put the taxi line between their feet. They can hardly believe it when they say that's where it is and I say I know - because it's between my feet too.

I learned about visual parallax in High School. Apparently it's not taught anymore.

Wikipedia: Visual Parallax
 
Hocky said:
I'm always pretty well aligned right up to when I flare and then I must drift to the left because as I touch done I'm to the left. I haven't had time to fly this week yet (just getting killed at work this week) but hopefully this afternoon/evening will get a chance to see if I'm somehow pulling back and to the left with the yoke when doing the flare.
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I bet this is it, cuz I had the same problem but my CFI caught it early on. I still do it from time to time and. I am always on center line if the wind is blowing from the left (a natural wind correction) :wink2:
 
I think looking at the far end of the runway during the flare is a bad idea for most pilots. Reasons in the link below, an article I wrote for the Cirrus Owner's magazine.

As I say in that article, pilots generally shift their view to the left on landing as they pull their focus point closer to the plane. And one's body tends to follow one's eyes, "pulling" the plane to the left.

Just takes practice - I find it helps to try to "straddle" the centerline with my feet, and not worry about the tiny offset in a side-by-side aircraft.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/22997486/Wheretolook.pdf
 
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Ok,

Finally got around to doing some landing practice today. I made a conscious effort to aim to keep the center line between my legs as I came in like I was sitting on a fence. Then when I flared, I again made a conscious effort to make sure I maintained my bank as I pulled back. There wasn't much of a crosswind maybe 6 knots. Anyway I nailed the center line three out of four times! And the fourth time I was to the RIGHT of center line.

So thank you everyone for your suggestions and tips. They really did help me.
 
Hocky said:
Ok,

Finally got around to doing some landing practice today. I made a conscious effort to aim to keep the center line between my legs as I came in like I was sitting on a fence. Then when I flared, I again made a conscious effort to make sure I maintained my bank as I pulled back. There wasn't much of a crosswind maybe 6 knots. Anyway I nailed the center line three out of four times! And the fourth time I was to the RIGHT of center line.

So thank you everyone for your suggestions and tips. They really did help me.
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The good news is that the "conscious effort" becomes second nature after not too long :yesnod:
 
Hocky said:
I don't know why but I'm always left of the center line. It doesn't matter what direction the wind is... I always end up three feet or so left of the center line. It is infuriating! Any suggestions or ideas on what is going on and what I can do to correct it?
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Really want to fix it? Don't land until you get it centered. Bring lots of gas. :)
 
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