Can't seem to nail the center line

Hocky

Hocky

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Hocky
I don't know why but I'm always left of the center line. It doesn't matter what direction the wind is... I always end up three feet or so left of the center line. It is infuriating! Any suggestions or ideas on what is going on and what I can do to correct it?
 
Sounds like you might be sighting through the spinner instead of straight ahead. Try lining up a line of rivets instead.

One way to check is to fly right seat once and see if you start landing right of the centerline.
 
Are you lining the middle of the plane up with something on the cowling/dash or lining up the centerline and middle of the plane with the prop center?
If you do the latter, you'll point the plane to the left.

Remember - you're in the left seat. So until you get the feeling and sight picture, find something on the cowling - rivets, a bump, or even put a yellow grease pencil marking that will be pointing straight ahead when you are sitting in the left seat.

Confession: I did the same thing for a while :)
 
During the flare, keep the end of the runway in your "cross-hairs." Never let it out of your sight. After touching down, don't let go of the controls--you are still "flying" on the runway, so use stick and rudder to keep it aligned until you turn off.

Short version: make it look right, and it will be right.
 
Quit using a hammer to land the aircraft?

Try looking at the end of the runway during the final phase of landing. Easier to see if you departing the groove.
 
My CFI told me to look at the end of the runway but to be honest I can't do that I feel the need to look where I'm landing not into the distance. I will try to find someway else to line up. I'm trying to visualize the spinner being over the center line that is probably the problem judging by the responses here. As usual some great tips thank you everyone I really appreciate it.
 
Hocky said:
I don't know why but I'm always left of the center line. It doesn't matter what direction the wind is... I always end up three feet or so left of the center line. It is infuriating! Any suggestions or ideas on what is going on and what I can do to correct it?
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So what? :confused:
 
flyingriki said:
So what? :confused:
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If you want to go land on a 10 foot wide runway in a 10 knot crosswind, it starts to matter?

Same thing with altitude - it bothers me if I settle in at 6540 instead of 6500 (I could just change the baro setting, I guess). Always shoot for perfection when you know you can, and when the poo starts flying it'll make life easier.
 
Try making the centerline of the runway between it and the left edge of the pavement your new centerline.
 
My wife hits me when I make comments about the centerline being out of service while she is flying.

One thing you can do is to find a longer runway and practice flying down it about ten feet or above the ground. Try doing so both in a crab (coordinated wind correction) and also in a slip (holding the centerline while keeping the longitudinal axis also aligned with the runway).
 
Much of learning to fly is understanding how to fix your errors. And for a good chunk of those errors, the answer is simple: just do it. I know that is easier said than done given the fire hose effect of your early training. It is difficult to objectively evaluate your performance in flight when you're already at your mental limits.

But the fact remains that if you are consistently landing left of center line, it is likely because you're not doing anything to change it. Try to make pointed, incremental changes in your processes. If you are landing too far left, make a concerted effort to land a little farther right each time around.

During my early training I was prone to chronically timid control inputs. As my training progressed, I finally had enough excess brain capacity to make a conscious effort at decisive control inputs. It turns out Nike had it right. :)
 
I had that problem until I focused to the end of the runway. I also found that the way I sat in the seat caused problems with being too far to the left. Once I corrected the way I was sitting and focused to the end of the runway, I get it on the centerline.
 
mikegreen said:
If you want to go land on a 10 foot wide runway in a 10 knot crosswind, it starts to matter.
Click to expand...

In those conditions you'll get a lot more accurate because the target is smaller - duh. When the runway is 100 or even 50 feet wide who cares.

Obsess with needless accuracy for what purpose. There are way better things to worry about.
IFR work is a different story. Flying is supposed to be fun not a damn test every second!

If it's that big a deal aim right for cyring out loud! Stare down the centerline all the way down.
 
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Hocky said:
My CFI told me to look at the end of the runway but to be honest I can't do that I feel the need to look where I'm landing not into the distance.
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Yeah, that's not gonna work well in a Cessna and not at all in a low wing or taildragger. The trick is to line up on the centerline, look at the end of the runway and use the angle to judge elevation, and only look at near you using peripheral vision. It takes practice.
 
flyingriki said:
In those conditions you'll get a lot more accurate because the target is smaller - duh. When the runway is 100 feet wide who cares.
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I might not care if it was sometimes to the right, sometimes to the left. The fact that it is ALWAYS to the left tells me something is wrong and I need to fix it.
 
The goal is to miss it closer.
 
When you're on final the runway should be exactly symmetrical. It shouldn't lean left or right. I've often seen people fly right of centerline in the right seat and left of centerline in the left seat. The reason seems to be that they are trying to adjust for their perspective being off center of the airplane.

But that isn't proper. Sure, you're maybe a foot off the centerline of your airplane, but that minor offset is imperceptible a mile away from something...like the runway. So don't bother correcting for the foot off centerline of the plane when lining up on the runway. Disregard it.

Line up exactly on centerline and that means the runway should be exactly symmetrical. No leaning left or right. Maintain that until you turn off the runway and you'll hit the centerline every time.

You're welcome.
 
probably the combination of P-factor and torque. Both pull to the left most noticeably during high AoA like landing.
It is not a dramatic force so you may not even notice it happening but when you flare, the nose will go to the left and if you don't correct, the plane will also.
I bet you are touching the ground slightly off line to the runway just a tiny bit because of this also.
 
I had the problem and my CFI took me to a 20 foot wide runway for practice. I didn't like it, but it worked. It is amazing what you can do if you have to.
 
If you are left seat, fly to put your right leg on centerline.
 
Look as far down the runway as you can see. The centerline should be straight out in front of the middle of your chest; you can also think of it as being between your feet.

I've attached a pic of a landing. Even though the aircraft was on the centerline, the middle of the nose looks like it's way to the right--that's because the camera was on the very far left edge of windshield. This is why you need to look straight out in front of you.
 

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dmspilot said:
Look as far down the runway as you can see. The centerline should be straight out in front of the middle of your chest; you can also think of it as being between your feet.

I've attached a pic of a landing. Even though the aircraft was on the centerline, the middle of the nose looks like it's way to the right--that's because the camera was on the very far left edge of windshield. This is why you need to look straight out in front of you.
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This is very good. Unlike when you are driving a car, you're almost always going to have the machine pointing left or right of centerline, due to crosswinds.

That is why you look to the end of the runway, and put it in your cross-hairs. You get your mind out of which way the machine is pointing, and into which way the machine is HEADING.
 
Hocky said:
I don't know why but I'm always left of the center line. It doesn't matter what direction the wind is... I always end up three feet or so left of the center line. It is infuriating! Any suggestions or ideas on what is going on and what I can do to correct it?
Click to expand...

Aim three feet to the right of centerline.
 
Put the centerline in the middle of you, not the airplane. Between your feet, between your legs, on your (not the airplane's) nose, through your chest. They all work (yoke works too).

The reason for landing left (CFI trainees land right) is because of something you were taught in high school science - parallax.
 
spiderweb said:
This is very good. Unlike when you are driving a car, you're almost always going to have the machine pointing left or right of centerline, due to crosswinds.
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No. By the time you are in the flare, the nose should not be skewed. But it looks skewed when it is straight ahead because of parallax.

It's actually exactly the same as driving a car. If you tried to stay in the center of a lane by looking only 10 feet in front of you and trying to keep the car (rather than you) centered, you'd be off to the left of the lane too.
 
My instrument instructor was somewhat frustrated that I didn't land on the centerline of a 200' wide runway.

Soooooo, he took me to Tewmac's 26' wide runway. And of course I landed on the centerline (had to, didn't want to run his airplane into the grass on the left side).

He said "see, you can land on the centerline"

I said "see, I can land on the centerline when I need to"

I probably mostly use the left side of the runway for visual cues rather than looking down the runway.
 
Hocky said:
I don't know why but I'm always left of the center line. It doesn't matter what direction the wind is... I always end up three feet or so left of the center line. It is infuriating! Any suggestions or ideas on what is going on and what I can do to correct it?
Click to expand...

When I was about 10 hrs into my training, we had to change planes because of some mechanical issues. We went from a Cherokee to a Piper Sport. The lines I was used to on the Cherokee didn't work for the Sport.
What I did was pull the Sport onto the ramp and line the plane up with vertical line on a hangar across from us. Then get in the plane and see what the new look is. While it is sitting there, you know it's lined up on the "centerline". Now spend some time in the plane visualizing what it looks like to you while you're sitting left seat.

Hope this helps.
 
What difference does it make, land safely on the run way, in a very bad cross wind, landing on solid surface is the best landing...screw the center line.
 
Given all of the fantastic advice on this thread, I think it is time for me to chime in with some solid advice of my own.

Try taking it to a nice dinner first.

Ba-da-che
 
Or it could be something simple, like when you pull back on the yoke, you slightly turn your wrist outward, causing a very slight turn to the left, which put you left of center line. That was my issue early on, and my CFI picked up on it. I made a conscious effort to not turn my wrist while pulling back, and the problem was solved.
 
Don't concentrate on all this right leg, through the spinner...etc etc...

Just put your butt on the centerline and keep it there. More than likely your nosewheel will end up there as well.
 
lr60plt said:
Don't concentrate on all this right leg, through the spinner...etc etc...

Just put your butt on the centerline and keep it there. More than likely your nosewheel will end up there as well.
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I do that and end up right of center line. How much? About the distance from the center of my seat to the center of the plane.
 
lr60plt said:
Don't concentrate on all this right leg, through the spinner...etc etc...
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Yeah, forget all that mess - it will have you focusing on the wrong things at a bad time. Just pretend the airplane around you doesn't exist and just line your ass up with the centerline. If you're landing 3' off, that will get you very close - like probably a foot. You can perfect it from there. Look far down the runway. It's just a practice and sight picture issue. Somehow we learn to drive cars down the center of the lane even though we sit a little off center...even more off center in cars.
 
EdFred said:
Or it could be something simple, like when you pull back on the yoke, you slightly turn your wrist outward, causing a very slight turn to the left, which put you left of center line. That was my issue early on, and my CFI picked up on it. I made a conscious effort to not turn my wrist while pulling back, and the problem was solved.
Click to expand...


Interesting. This may be what is happening to me now that you mention it.

Also just realizing my CFI's are just horrible. They're all young (in their early 20's) and I don't think really care about teaching just getting hours.
 
Hocky said:
Also just realizing my CFI's are just horrible. They're all young (in their early 20's) and I don't think really care about teaching just getting hours.
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:yawn:
 
EdFred said:
Or it could be something simple, like when you pull back on the yoke, you slightly turn your wrist outward, causing a very slight turn to the left, which put you left of center line. That was my issue early on, and my CFI picked up on it. I made a conscious effort to not turn my wrist while pulling back, and the problem was solved.
Click to expand...

God, I had this same problem in a 152 and I completely forgot about it. In fact, I think my CFI figured out that I may have been introducing a slight yaw along with a slight roll as I pulled back due to a rotation of the yoke combined with a slight pressure on the left rudder pedal.
 
Hocky said:
Interesting. This may be what is happening to me now that you mention it.

Also just realizing my CFI's are just horrible. They're all young (in their early 20's) and I don't think really care about teaching just getting hours.
Click to expand...

And you make that judgment after what, 5 hours of total training? Yep, that makes you acutely aware of who is good and who is horrible :rolleyes:
 
Your need to schedule more lessons, devoting more time to actual flying verses asking silly questions.
 
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