Cannabis induced delusions

J

John fairman

Guest
I have a diagnosis of past delusions no auditory or visual problems which my new doctor says was caused by cannabis I was smoking 4.5 grams a day at the time. My doctor says that cannabis induced psychosis is the only type of psychosis that can go away. I have been totally sober for two years and now am almost off meds for it. I have not had any symptoms for five years when I was smoking one gram every two months before total sobriety during which I was medicated. I have never used any substance in a situation where it was physically hazardous. How many years without meds symptom free is needed for a good shot at a special issuance.
 
Nowhere near enough details (and you won’t want to go into them here, anyways) to provide any valuable insights.

The diagnosis/diagnoses that got you the pot is likely an issue in and of itself. Any other diagnoses just add to the list of things you will need to disclose if they were ever present at any point in life, since birth. Also, the FAA doesn’t care about tour state’s position, marijauna is a scheduled drug at the federal level, so be prepared for that bit of culture shock.

I suggest you find a reputable HIMS AME for a consult to understand your path and chances of success.
 
Psychosis is grounding, no matter what the cause, for 10 years.
I suppose you could try with a HIMS Psyhchiatry and HIMS neuropsychology evaluation and two year's proof of abstsinence (Private random urine program run by a HIMS AME), but I'm not betting on it. You'll also neeed continuous recovery activities (2x NA attendance logged per week) and the ability to discuss the structure of your recovery (If you can't discuss the 12 steps you also fail).

I tried that with a a USAFA cadet in a similar situation and FAA simply said, "no how no way".
 
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bbchien said:
Psychosis is grounding, no matter what the cause, for 10 years.
I suppose you could try with a HIMS Psyhchiatry and HIMS neuropsiychology evaluation and two year's proof of abstsinence (Private random urine program run by a HIMS AME), but I'm not betting on it. You'll also neeed continuous recovery activities (2x NA attendance logged per week) and the ability to discuss the structure of your recovery (If you can't discuss the 12 steps you also fail).

I tried that with a a USAFA cadet in a similar situation and FAA simply said, "no how no way".
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is that ten years no meds or ten years no symptoms?
 
delta has had no problems getting free basing heroin addicts recertified… just sayin. Flying right now.

And suicidal pilots recertified without the ten year wait.

All it takes is money.
 
You want him to do a bunch of stuff, not for his own good, or anyone else’s, but to absolve you from any possible liability, basic rights be damned? Hmmm….
 
Doing drugs is stupid. Getting drunk is stupid. Both have consequences. In this case, it appears that the consequences are waiting ten years after stoppage of the drugs/medication used to treat the addiction before being eligible for consideration for a medical. Due process may be a constitutional right, but the FAA medical branch is not prosecuting anyone nor charging them with a crime. They are determining fitness to fly, which is very different.
 
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It was recreational pot purchased legally in Denver I have never had a med card. However I was smoking it because of rugby injuries: broken cheekbone with severed nerve broken orbital and nose bone which I played on for 10 minutes in addition two separated shoulders. I was offered pain pills for all three injuries but threw them out without taking any of them.0
 
SkyChaser said:
Doing drugs is stupid. Getting drunk is stupid. Both have consequences. In this case, it appears that the consequences are waiting ten years after stoppage of the drugs/medication used to treat the addiction before being eligible for consideration for a medical. Due process may be a constitution right, but the FAA medical branch is not prosecuting anyone nor charging them with a crime. They are determining fitness to fly, which is very different.
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Due process isn't limited to criminal proceedings, it's a well established component of administrative law.

As we saw from OP, there was more to the story than someone who just smoked weed to get high. I hope the FAA would consider the circumstances surrounding any individuals medical background rather than just blanket denying any history of questionable judgment or health issues. That's the entire point of the special issuance process, to reserve judgment and evaluate the whole person with respect to aeromedical safety. Unfortunately society and medicine's understanding of the etiology and prognosis of mental health issues is so poor that procedural CYA becomes the preponderance of considerations made when dealing with behavioral health.

To OP, pay an AME to review your entire medical history. With something this complex you probably aren't going to get an objective assessment of what steps you would need to secure a medical from this forum. The head injury is another complicated component that will cause issues for you. Here is the FAA guide for examiners regarding head injuries: https://www.faa.gov/ame_guide/app_process/exam_tech/item46/amd/incap
 
Certainly interesting discussions we can have these days.

To summarize the OP: 'Yes I was delusional but only because of the excessive amounts of recreational THC I consumed as a form of self medication for a sports injury. Am I GTG ?'


For starters, medicinal/recreational is wholly irrelevant for the feds. Until there is a change in the law, it's all a schedule I substance taken outside of a clinical trial, so from their perch it's an unlawful use. People mistake the fact that the DEA chooses not to crack down on state level facilities for a de facto legalization.

As for the delusions. Are you going to find someone who can certify that they were definitely due to temporary intoxication ?
 
SkyChaser said:
Due process may be a constitution right, but the FAA medical branch is not prosecuting anyone nor charging them with a crime. They are determining fitness to fly, which is very different.
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It could be argued that the freedom to fly is a form of liberty, which is specifically mentioned in the due-process clause. :dunno:
 
redbaron said:
With something this complex you probably aren't going to get an objective assessment of what steps you would need to secure a medical from this forum.
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Probably true in general, but I think it would be hard to find someone more qualified to weigh in on aviation medical topics than Dr. Chien.
 
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John fairman said:
It was recreational pot purchased legally in Denver I have never had a med card. However I was smoking it because of rugby injuries: broken cheekbone with severed nerve broken orbital and nose bone which I played on for 10 minutes in addition two separated shoulders. I was offered pain pills for all three injuries but threw them out without taking any of them.0
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Let’s see…..I had knee replacement, oxycodone while 3 days in hospital, none after discharge. I prefer Ben & Jerrys Chocolate Fudge Brownie. Only required 30 days off meds until I could fly again. I waited 60 days for other reasons. OP refused pain meds and is now on a 10 YEAR wait.

I really wonder about the decision making abilities of some people.

Note: I checked with Dr B about the pain meds about the time requirement.
 
murphey said:
Let’s see…..I had knee replacement, oxycodone while 3 days in hospital, none after discharge. I prefer Ben & Jerrys Chocolate Fudge Brownie. Only required 30 days off meds until I could fly again....
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Was that 30 days off all meds, are just the narcotic one (i.e., oxycodone)?
 
murphey said:
Let’s see…..I had knee replacement, oxycodone while 3 days in hospital, none after discharge. I prefer Ben & Jerrys Chocolate Fudge Brownie. Only required 30 days off meds until I could fly again. I waited 60 days for other reasons. OP refused pain meds and is now on a 10 YEAR wait.

I really wonder about the decision making abilities of some people.

Note: I checked with Dr B about the pain meds about the time requirement.
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Why did you wait that long? Issues with the knee? According to FAA, you only have to wait five dosing intervals for the pills.

 
weilke said:
People mistake the fact that the DEA chooses not to crack down on state level facilities for a de facto legalization.
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I mean, that's what "de facto" means. "1. existing in fact, although perhaps not intended, legal, or accepted". Which is precisely what's happening at a state level.

But you are 100% correct if you meant that the feds are still clutching their pearls and pretending that pot is somehow less moral or more dangerous than booze.
 
I have internet-related delusions every day. Just when I think people have dipped as low as possible on the intelligence scale, the next day they lower the bar.

Does a guy who rationalizes smoking 4 1/2 grams of cannibus a day have a job? If he was on my payroll? He wouldn’t for long. I know guys who smoke pot every day. It isn’t anywhere close to 4 1/2 grams. Pot today isn’t the bag of seeds and stems we used to get in high school.

Silly topic. Stupid thread.
 
Stewartb said:
I have internet-related delusions every day. Just when I think people have dipped as low as possible on the intelligence scale, the next day they lower the bar.

Does a guy who rationalizes smoking 4 1/2 grams of cannibus a day have a job? If he was on my payroll? He wouldn’t for long. I know guys who smoke pot every day. It isn’t anywhere close to 4 1/2 grams. Pot today isn’t the bag of seeds and stems we used to get in high school.

Silly topic. Stupid thread.
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Exactly this. Willing to bet money this is another troll thread.
I know more than a couple heavy marijuana users and none of them would ever come remotely close to 4.5g per day. With today's (legal rec) THC% at ~25%+, you'd be beyond debilitated from sun-up to sun-down.
 
redbaron said:
…I hope the FAA would consider the circumstances surrounding any individuals medical background rather than just blanket denying any history of questionable judgment or health issues…
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The FAA has well documented processes in the AME Guide. It is freely available on the internet to search and review the criteria and dispositions. The medical application and disposition by the FAA is due process for the applicant.

Fr Ex:

Decision Considerations - Aerospace Medical Dispositions
Item 47. Psychiatric Conditions - Psychosis

Psychotic Disorders are characterized by a loss of reality testing in the form of delusions, hallucinations, or disorganized thoughts. They may be chronic, intermittent, or occur in a single episode. They may also occur as accompanying symptoms in other psychiatric conditions including but not limited to bipolar disorder (e.g. bipolar disorder with psychotic features), major depression (e.g. major depression with psychotic features), borderline personality disorder, etc.

All applicants with such a diagnosis must be denied or deferred.
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And for drug use:


 
I worked for FAA repair station and would get on-site surprise urine tests. If I flunked, I was out the door. No exceptions. It doesn’t matter whether the pot was legally bought or administered by a doctor. Pot use was a big no-no as far as the FAA was concerned. Airplanes and pot do not mix. Suffering from a documented psychosis from massive pot use falls into another category as far as the FAA is concerned.
I do have compassion for the OP as we’ve ALL done stupid things when we were young. When the stupid things things are documented you’re screwed, maybe for life. If you’re young and dumb, let the OP’s story be a lesson for you.
 
I have friends and customers in the legal pot cultivating and dispensing businesses. Because of federal banking laws? All cash, and very lucrative. Those guys have better security and access control than most banks. The government has forced these businesses into money laundering. The world is crazy.​
 
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Brad Smith said:
I worked for FAA repair station and would get on-site surprise urine tests. If I flunked, I was out the door. No exceptions. It doesn’t matter whether the pot was legally bought or administered by a doctor.
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The “medical application” process is FAR from due process…. What happens if Brad here gets a false positive? Take a look at THAT due process!

One step further… if you’re in HIMS, NONE of the tests required are even FDA approved, tested, vetted OR medically reviewed AT ALL. Due process can’t even begin. It was PREVENTED by policy, which again fails our basic rights as citizens.

It’s regulated by internal unpublished policy rather than even adhering to PUBLISHED FEDERAL LAW.

We’re talking separation of church and state, privacy, forced medical procedure, condoned malpractice, fraud, negligence, false imprisonment, coercion, at least 8 of 12 federally mandated patients bill of rights… all administered by non experts that face no consequences for poor or non-performance.

It’s called forensic until it needs to be clinical. It’s called treatment but it’s not…. The problems with this “process” are wildly far reaching and not making anything safer. It’s perceived avoidance of perceived liability fueled by an irrational fear of flying.
 
It's funny, some of the OP's harshest critics are big Basic Med advocates. What if the OP had previously held a valid medical, and his doctor agreed that he wasn't actually psychotic . . . .
 
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