Canadian ForeFlight Subscription for 1 trip?

[Hangontight]

I have a Canadian fishing trip coming up in May and I plan on flying there. If all goes according to plan it will only be 2 airports, the airport of entry and then my destination, both in Ontario. I plan on filing IFR as I do on all cross-country trips. Should I just bite the bullet and buy the subscription for ForeFlight for Canada for a year or is there a more clever alternative? I’ll already be upgrading my Garmin GTN database for Canada procedures but that one is a non-negotiable! I’ve heard FltplanGo is an option but it seems really clunky…not sure I want to be dealing with that while flying. I guess good old paper charts are still an option….

 

[MountainDude]

I am not aware of any cheaper options, like a monthly subscription.

 

[Flyxaos]

Use Flight plan Go for that trip. It has a learning curve that will frustrate a Foreflight user. But it works great when you figure it out and free Canadian charts

 

[flyingcheesehead]

You could subscribe to ForeFlight for "a year" with Canada, and then subscribe to US only after you get back. You won't get a refund, but the difference will get applied to your subscription next year.

Or maybe they have an option for a one-shot trip, but you'd have to contact them.

 

[M20K]

Should I just bite the bullet and buy the subscription for ForeFlight for Canada for a year or is there a more clever alternative?

Granted FF was recently sold, but it was part of Jeppesen for a while and they have "Trip Kits." So it is quite possible that FF has the same option.

Definitely worth sending them an email and asking. You could send it to Support, but I'd try [email protected] first.

 

[SebIp]

I don’t think paper could be less clunky than fltplango.

To get the entire picture you should have CFS, CAP, CAP GEN, vnc, low charts, high charts (are you in flight levels?), and maybe even terminal charts. That’s a lot of paper to carry around.

Not sure fltplango have all of the above.

You’ll also need to get used to the gfa to get the big pic weather. Filing would be via the nav canada website or just calling.

 

[midlifeflyer]

As others mentioned, FF uses an annual subscription model. After the trip, you can cancel and they'll carry the credit toward the next renewal.

I'm among those who would use FltPlan Go! for a limited need like this. Here's why.

The official Canadian charts are free and only need them for reference because...

The Foreflight Aeronautical layer is pretty much international. So is the database. While the government charts are not there without a subscription, airways and approaches are still depicted. If your destination is, for example, Lake Simcoe (CYLS} and you want to fly the RNAV (GNSS) 28 approach, while FF won't give you the Canadian enroute chart or approach plate, you can still load the procedure form the Procedure Advisor and it will be painted on the Map. (BTW, the same is true for Garmin Pilot)

I don't have a problem with having both loaded so I can fly with FF and use Go! the same way I would use paper (without the printing).

 

[172andyou]

Thanks for the tip about cancelling and getting a credit. I want to do a canadian trip and this would be prefect for me.

 

[SebIp]

Don't skip on checking the proper documents though. The information up here is scattered cross so many different docs.

Sometime you have all your IFR info on the aerodrome chart, sometimes one or two things are in the CFS.

Not sure I understand the idea of flying foreflight database. Is that given with guarantees? And what is the point of that when you have your GPS navigator database up to date?

 

[midlifeflyer]

Not sure I understand the idea of flying foreflight database. Is that given with guarantees? And what is the point of that when you have your GPS navigator database up to date?

No, you are not flying the Foreflight database. You are flying your certified avionics. You are using FF for exactly the same things you always use it for. I'm only pointing out that, even if your subscription is local, the internal database (including approaches) and aeronautical layer rendering is international. IOW if you load approaches in FF for situational awareness, you can do it here as well, although you won't see a traditional government chart. If you never use an EFB for anything, you wouldn't suddenly use it here.

 

[SebIp]

For OP where are you going to in Ontario? You do need access to the charts one way or another. Radar might be more iffy than what you are used to. They can't pick me up at 5k high just 53nm north west of CYYZ. If you are going further you will have mandatory reporting points which are on the IFR low.
There are then also PAL frequencies. I have experience them telling me call me back on same freq when you are in your missed, only to get nothing and having to figure out how to get them back. Published holds are also on the low which would be nice if it's all in one place IMHO.

There's no FIS-B other than a few community stations which are hit and miss randomly. If you are used to FIS-B weather keep that in mind. Also, actual weather radar coverage ends not so far north. If you are going to some remote area that's another thing to keep in mind.

 

[greentips]

You might ask Airmate.aero. I have found them to be extremely reasonable. The one problem you might have is NavCanada has been a potential roadblock in the past. I use their US charts on the Dynon Skyview HDX with georef and I think I paid $50 for the entire US high/low IFR and VFR. It might be worth a call to them to see what they offer these days. I use their flight app on the Android, and WingX on the ipad. I think if I took the time to learn their user I/F it would be a very nice package.

 

[greentips]

I checked with airmate.aero. They report IFR plates are a problem, as are Canadian VNC charts, but they can provide usable ICAO VFR charts :

Walt,​

​

You are right, NavCanada is a problem.​

​

Canada airport diagrams are available as they are freely provided by NavCanada. We cannot provide NavCanada approach plates as they are not freely available and their redistribution is prohibited. Their licensing is very expensive (above 100 k$) so it is not possible to recoup such expensive fees.​

​

For VNC, this is the same problem but here we have a workaround as we provide our own Airmate VFR charts for Canada that are part of our subscription.​

​

So, in a nutshell our North America subscription provides full aeronautical data coverage for Canada, the airport diagrams only (no approach plates) and our own VFR ICAO charts.​

​

We do hope the situation will improve in the future and NavCanada will align to what nearly all other CAA worldwide are doing and what ICAO is recommending: full, free access for aeronautical documentation in the interest of flight safety. In practice, all state-controlled CAA are usually providing this information free of charge, those posing problems are mostly the privatized ones (Canada, Australia and New Zealand).​

​

Kind regards​

​

Daniel​

I have been using airmate's charts for about 3 years since I put in the SkyviewHDX and other than a tedious download which is no worse than the old Jepp hardcopy plates, except it runs by itself without paper and binders, the service is great at its present prices. They also have some interesting goodies in the planner which I've not fully explored, yet. You might take a look. The North American subscription is $49.90. Based on Daniel's thoughts, yet another reason to keep privatized ATC out of the US, solely in my opinion.

 

[Hangontight]

For OP where are you going to in Ontario? You do need access to the charts one way or another. Radar might be more iffy than what you are used to. They can't pick me up at 5k high just 53nm north west of CYYZ. If you are going further you will have mandatory reporting points which are on the IFR low.
There are then also PAL frequencies. I have experience them telling me call me back on same freq when you are in your missed, only to get nothing and having to figure out how to get them back. Published holds are also on the low which would be nice if it's all in one place IMHO.

There's no FIS-B other than a few community stations which are hit and miss randomly. If you are used to FIS-B weather keep that in mind. Also, actual weather radar coverage ends not so far north. If you are going to some remote area that's another thing to keep in mind.

I would enter at Fort Francis, Ontario and fly direct to Sioux Lookout, Ontario as my final destination

 

[SebIp]

It’s like 100 and so nm. FltPlan go seems like the best option if you don’t want to do the cancel and try credit route.

Not a complicated route.

 

[finnleyross21]

For OP where are you going to in Ontario? You do need access to the charts one way or another. Radar might be more iffy than what you are used to. They can't pick me up at 5k high just 53nm north west of CYYZ. If you are going further you will have mandatory reporting points which are on the IFR low.
There are then also PAL frequencies. I have experience them telling me call me back on same freq when you are in your missed, only to get nothing and having to figure out how to get them back. Published holds are also on the low which would be nice if it's all in one place IMHO.

There's no FIS-B other than a few community stations which are hit and miss randomly. If you are used to FIS-B weather keep that in mind. Also, actual weather radar coverage ends not so far north. If you are going to some remote area that's another thing to keep in mind.

FltPlan Go may seem a bit outdated and clunky, but for one trip it is a free and fully functional option. And when you arrive, settle in at the resort and want to relax a bit in the evening, you can visit https://icasino-reviews.co.nz/inclave-casino/ where there are great reviews and bonuses for a good mood. The main thing is to check the radar coverage on the route in advance and download all the schemes offline. And at which airport in Ontario do you plan to make your first landing for customs?

You can also simply download and print the necessary procedural cards or try a one-month demo version of other applications.

 

[ianamit]

I fly to Canada 2-3 times a year, and use FltPlanGo. No point in upgrading the Foreflight (now Garmin Pilot) subscription for that.

 

[TommyG]

Ask a friend that has it to use their log in.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Ask a friend that has it to use their log in.

That can lead to a whole mess of unintended consequences. You'll see their Flights, not yours; the flights will be in their Track Logs forever and never in yours; it'll log to their Logbook, not yours; it'll have their Aircraft set up, not yours... And the device limits are enforced on login so you may not be able to do it, or if they log out so you can do it they won't be able to use FF until you return from your trip. And I'm probably missing a few things here too. It's just not a great idea.

Adding the Canadian data subscription and then removing it when you get back is pretty painless.

 

[M20K]

You'll see their Flights, not yours; the flights will be in their Track Logs forever and never in yours; it'll log to their Logbook, not yours; it'll have their Aircraft set up, not yours...

I'm not on the page of saying he should use someone else's account, but the Logbook and TrackLog should not be an issue.

Aircraft profile would be the one you'd have to create in the friends account, but that would just be entering in his N# to get the basic profile. W&B you can forward from his account to his friend, or just create it too. Both would then just simply be deleted at the end of the trip right before he signed out of his friends account for the last time.

As for the Logbook, the flight would only show up in the friends Logbook if he put it there. There's no forced entry by FF into your Logbook. He'd just log into his own account and enter the info into his Logbook. On the TrackLog, he actually could put it into his Logbook if he uses it. The TrackLog would be stored in his iPad, so when he logs out and then back in with his account to make the Logbook entry, he would just go accept the TrackLog into his Logbook as he normally would. One "gotcha" would be that he'd need to make sure he connected to the Internet before he logged out again so that new Logbook entry is synced up to the FF servers. Then he can switch back to the friend account to continue the trip. Or... Just keep track of the Hobbs or Tach Time and make all his Logbook entries when he gets home and don't worry about the TrackLog. (I've never bothered with TrackLog and probably never will. The Rec button isn't even enabled on my Map page. )

 

[TommyG]

I'm not on the page of saying he should use someone else's account, but the Logbook and TrackLog should not be an issue.

Aircraft profile would be the one you'd have to create in the friends account, but that would just be entering in his N# to get the basic profile. W&B you can forward from his account to his friend, or just create it too. Both would then just simply be deleted at the end of the trip right before he signed out of his friends account for the last time.

As for the Logbook, the flight would only show up in the friends Logbook if he put it there. There's no forced entry by FF into your Logbook. He'd just log into his own account and enter the info into his Logbook. On the TrackLog, he actually could put it into his Logbook if he uses it. The TrackLog would be stored in his iPad, so when he logs out and then back in with his account to make the Logbook entry, he would just go accept the TrackLog into his Logbook as he normally would. One "gotcha" would be that he'd need to make sure he connected to the Internet before he logged out again so that new Logbook entry is synced up to the FF servers. Then he can switch back to the friend account to continue the trip. Or... Just keep track of the Hobbs or Tach Time and make all his Logbook entries when he gets home and don't worry about the TrackLog. (I've never bothered with TrackLog and probably never will. The Rec button isn't even enabled on my Map page. )

Or that friend can be like me. I don’t care about flight tracks, or logbook, or any of that other stuff. My use of ForeFlight is literally map, and plates. I think almost all the pilots I know use as plain and simple as I do.

 

[M20K]

Or that friend can be like me. I don’t care about flight tracks, or logbook, or any of that other stuff.

I like the Digital Log book to quickly look up when the last time we flew somewhere or look up if I've ever made a fuel stop on some X-US trip, etc. But signatures still go into a paper Logbook that gets scanned. I started flying long before Digital Logbooks that could accept and store a signature, so non of my private or instrument signatures are in there. So I just kept putting my Flight Reviews and IPC entries in the paper Logbook and make a note in FF. It's much easier now to do the signatures in FF, but if I use a CFI that used G Pilot (or something else), then I'd have to email back and forth, so I'll prob. stick with the paper Logbook for signatures that I'll hopefully never need to show anyone anyway.

And I get the appeal of the TrackLog if you started off that way working on your Private. And I probably would have used it for my Inst training if it existed back then, but now??? Nope, I don't see myself ever using it either.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Aircraft profile would be the one you'd have to create in the friends account, but that would just be entering in his N# to get the basic profile. W&B you can forward from his account to his friend, or just create it too. Both would then just simply be deleted at the end of the trip right before he signed out of his friends account for the last time.

Yep... But if you consider the small incremental cost of just getting Canada added to your ForeFlight subscription temporarily, this effort seems silly. Canada is $110 per year, or $2.12 per week. You could add it for a full month to do some planning and get familiar with their charts before you left and it's still less than $10. So why go to any extra effort?

As for the Logbook, the flight would only show up in the friends Logbook if he put it there. There's no forced entry by FF into your Logbook.

Depends on settings. ForeFlight can automatically create Logbook drafts based on filed Flights and/or on track logs. Not sure what the default is, but mine was doing both for a while until I turned off the Flights one.

On the TrackLog, he actually could put it into his Logbook if he uses it. The TrackLog would be stored in his iPad, so when he logs out and then back in with his account to make the Logbook entry, he would just go accept the TrackLog into his Logbook as he normally would.

I'm not so sure. Because track logs are synced data, they might be deleted when you log out. I certainly wouldn't count on being able to do this.

It's unfortunate that there really isn't a way to share a track log to a different user. There's no native export, only KML, and if you export KML and then import on a different ForeFlight you do lose the ADAHRS data at least.

Or... Just keep track of the Hobbs or Tach Time and make all his Logbook entries when he gets home and don't worry about the TrackLog. (I've never bothered with TrackLog and probably never will. The Rec button isn't even enabled on my Map page. )

It's a fantastic thing if you use it. Great for debriefing and fun for reliving flights years later.

Or that friend can be like me. I don’t care about flight tracks, or logbook, or any of that other stuff. My use of ForeFlight is literally map, and plates. I think almost all the pilots I know use as plain and simple as I do.

I'm sure "pilots of a certain age" do avoid the technology more than us middle-aged young 'uns.

 

[M20K]

Yep... But if you consider the small incremental cost of just getting Canada added to your ForeFlight subscription temporarily

Early on there's a post from me saying to just add it and then when you get back call FF and they'll give you a credit for the unused portion of the subscription. I believe they still do that.

I'm sure "pilots of a certain age" do avoid the technology more than us middle-aged young 'uns.

Well... I was pretty much on the bleeding edge of a lot of technology for a few decades. So it's a conscious decision that I don't really care to see a TrackLog.

Depends on settings. ForeFlight can automatically create Logbook drafts based on filed Flights and/or on track logs. Not sure what the default is, but mine was doing both for a while until I turned off the Flights one.

And so what????? There's this thing called "Delete" that would take care of that. And I sure hope you're going in and correcting the errors in Time. Hopefully you know that if you're not using the Manual Start/Stop, the TrackLog starts when you reach 50ish knots on takeoff and then stops when you go below 50ish knots (give or take per your settings). Then all the Taxi Time is approximated. It apparently has gotten better sensing some movement of the plane, but I still don't think it just senses when you first move and when you finally stop.

I'm not so sure. Because track logs are synced data, they might be deleted when you log out. I certainly wouldn't count on being able to do this.

TrackLogs are stored on the device and, from what I understand, they will still be on the iPad you just finished a flight on even if you Log Out and then Log In with a different account. So then you can accept them into the other account. And, in theory, once you have put them into a Logbook entry, they should be gone from the pending list, but if they are still there when you logged in with the other account again, you would just delete them.

But again, I'm with you that the easiest thing is to just get the stupid subscription and then hope FF will give you a credit for a good chunk of it when you get home.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Early on there's a post from me saying to just add it and then when you get back call FF and they'll give you a credit for the unused portion of the subscription. I believe they still do that.

They do.

And so what????? There's this thing called "Delete" that would take care of that.

Yes, I was just pointing out all of the possible unintended consequences of borrowing a friend's account. Yes, most of them can be taken care of, but it does involve more effort than just logging out and back in.

And I sure hope you're going in and correcting the errors in Time. Hopefully you know that if you're not using the Manual Start/Stop, the TrackLog starts when you reach 50ish knots on takeoff and then stops when you go below 50ish knots (give or take per your settings). Then all the Taxi Time is approximated. It apparently has gotten better sensing some movement of the plane, but I still don't think it just senses when you first move and when you finally stop.

It seems to be right on for starts in my plane - I suspect it may go off of when it starts detecting my panel. At work, I manually start. And I always manually edit the stop - It gets the On time correct but then just adds 15 minutes and it almost never takes that long to taxi in and shut down.

TrackLogs are stored on the device and, from what I understand, they will still be on the iPad you just finished a flight on even if you Log Out and then Log In with a different account.

Track logs are also stored on the cloud... Go to plan.foreflight.com and you'll see them all. And like I said, I suspect that as a result, they are tied to your account one way or another. Otherwise, when you logged into your friend's account it would download all of their track logs to your iPad, and when you logged back into your own account they would be duplicated onto your account. And that would be far worse than just missing the ones that were recorded using your friend's account, as you'd have to go back through all of them and delete the ones that weren't yours, or permanently have them all cluttering up your account.

 

[M20K]

Track logs are also stored on the cloud... Go to plan.foreflight.com

It would be interesting to see what happens. If I were to do something like this, which I not , I guess I'd log out of the friends account, log in with mine and create the logbook entry with the TrackLog. Then I'd connect to the Internet to sync my Logbook and disconnect again from the Internet. Then log out, log back in to the friends account and delete the TrackLog if it was still there (in theory it should have been removed when I put it into my Logbook).

Way too much work, but it would probably give you the end result you wanted.