Can someone translate this for me?

Chrisgoesflying

Cleared for Takeoff
Joined
Dec 7, 2018
Messages
1,085
Location
Too far north
Display Name

Display name:
Chrisgoesflying

What is going on in this video? I am not IFR rated but started taking IFR lessons and want to finish that rating at some point once my plane is fully IFR equipped (I mean it is IFR legal for 1980 standards lol but not for today's standards). So, a lot of this still sounds foreign to me. From my understanding, he has an iPad that died but he also has a panel mounted, presumably IFR legal GPS. The controller tries to get him over a certain fix to get him on the RNAV but he doesn't find this fix. He then states that his iPad died so he can't find the fix but once at the fix, he would be able to pick up the approach on his panel mounted GPS. That doesn't make sense, shouldn't he be able to find the fix with his panel mounted GPS as well? Can someone decode this in plain English?
 

Found this thread on another forum talking about this incident. They mentioned the listed aircraft owner was not IFR rated. However it appears this incident was in Sept 2023 and the registry ownership changed in Oct 2023. Given the FAA delays with change of ownership I’m guessing that the thread participants only checked the previous owner? I haven’t digged into it too much.

People tend to rely heavily on iPads and they either overheat or run out of battery. It sounds like he couldn’t pull up the approach plate so his mind was stuck at that point.
 
Ooofff - that was painful to listen to, even though most of the pilot's side of the conversation wasn't captured by live ATC or it was edited out. Anyway, my impression is either his panel mounted GPS (and I'm giving the benefit of the doubt that he actually had one which is iffy) was a VFR only unit or he had no idea how to load and activate the approach since he had no idea how to navigate to the JOSRU IAF for the straight in 08 approach. To legally fly a GPS RNAV approach it has to be from a panel mounted IFR unit with a current database. The iPad is legal for displaying the plate (that's what I do with an iPhone as a backup) but you can't use it for IFR navigation outside of an emergency which he never declared. IMO he should have accepted the ILS 26 or VOR-A (and circled if the wind was really bad) or asked for Special VFR.
 
Yeah...he either had no GPS or no idea how to use it. Don't be that guy.
 

What is going on in this video? I am not IFR rated but started taking IFR lessons and want to finish that rating at some point once my plane is fully IFR equipped (I mean it is IFR legal for 1980 standards lol but not for today's standards). So, a lot of this still sounds foreign to me. From my understanding, he has an iPad that died but he also has a panel mounted, presumably IFR legal GPS. The controller tries to get him over a certain fix to get him on the RNAV but he doesn't find this fix. He then states that his iPad died so he can't find the fix but once at the fix, he would be able to pick up the approach on his panel mounted GPS. That doesn't make sense, shouldn't he be able to find the fix with his panel mounted GPS as well? Can someone decode this in plain English?
I don't know (i.e. have not used) any GPS older than a 530/430 so maybe it's harder with non-graphical ones, but on Garmins, if the airport destination is already loaded, you load the approach and it would already have JOSRU. Then direct enter enter. It's not hard. Otherwise enter the destination and load the approach.
 
Probably trying to use geo-referencing on the iPad to navigate and fly the approach. Strike one.

When it died, he didn’t know how, or lacked the ability to use the panel mounted IFR approved GPS to fly the approach. Strike two.

Definitely don’t be this guy.
 
One thing I didn’t get towards the end was, he wanted to cancel ifr and go vfr. The controller said he can’t because of ceiling being (if I remember correctly) 1,800 ft. But wouldn’t that be vfr? Ultimately they did cancel his ifr and he landed vfr.
 
One thing I didn’t get towards the end was, he wanted to cancel ifr and go vfr. The controller said he can’t because of ceiling being (if I remember correctly) 1,800 ft. But wouldn’t that be vfr? Ultimately they did cancel his ifr and he landed vfr.
Remember he was trying to get the guy to cross the iaf at 4000, so he was above the layer. Now, the controller doesn't get to decide when & if you cancel. The pilot can see out the window and makes the final call, so not taking the cancelation was a bit improper, although he was trying to save the guy's life. Of course if the controller thinks a pilot is doing something illegal, they could file a report with the fsdo, but it would be hard to prove in the absence of witnesses.
 
One thing I didn’t get towards the end was, he wanted to cancel ifr and go vfr. The controller said he can’t because of ceiling being (if I remember correctly) 1,800 ft. But wouldn’t that be vfr? Ultimately they did cancel his ifr and he landed vfr.
Controller can only descend him to a certain altitude. If he couldn't get below the clouds at the minimum vectoring altitude you have to run the approach or go find VFR weather elsewhere.
 
Ah, that makes sense. He was above the layer. If he was VFR above the ceiling though, in theory, he should have been able to cancel IFR, go find a hole in the deck, descend through it and then come back below the ceiling.
 
Ah, that makes sense. He was above the layer. If he was VFR above the ceiling though, in theory, he should have been able to cancel IFR, go find a hole in the deck, descend through it and then come back below the ceiling.
Which is what he "did". I'm certain a rule follower like that remained 2000' laterally from any clouds.
 
Reading this, watching videos and just generally reading through this IFR section of POA really sounds super exciting. Can't wait to get my IFR ticket and upgrade my plane to modern IFR standards, although I'll have to do it gradually over time to keep some gas money available so I still get to fly haha. One thing I worry about IFR where I live (frozen tundra north of y'all), most IFR days probably equal to bad icing days as well. Am I correct in that assumption? For those of you who live in the northern half of the U.S. do you actually get to fly a real IFR in GA aircraft without known icing capabilities?
 
Which is what he "did". I'm certain a rule follower like that remained 2000' laterally from any clouds.
It was a broken layer. If had requested Special VFR he could have ditched any pretense of an approach and have been legal the whole time.
 
Last edited:
Which is what he "did". I'm certain a rule follower like that remained 2000' laterally from any clouds.
...using his precision distance-from-clouds meter. ;)
 
For those of you who live in the northern half of the U.S. do you actually get to fly a real IFR in GA aircraft without known icing capabilities?
From about April to October, yes. March and November just depend on the freezing levels that year and if you have to go over any terrain.
 
Reading this, watching videos and just generally reading through this IFR section of POA really sounds super exciting. Can't wait to get my IFR ticket and upgrade my plane to modern IFR standards, although I'll have to do it gradually over time to keep some gas money available so I still get to fly haha. One thing I worry about IFR where I live (frozen tundra north of y'all), most IFR days probably equal to bad icing days as well. Am I correct in that assumption? For those of you who live in the northern half of the U.S. do you actually get to fly a real IFR in GA aircraft without known icing capabilities?
From reading your posts, I suspect that you're like me in that you enjoy flight planning, flying cross country, and talking to ATC. IFR is my favorite type of flying. It's unbelievably satisfying to me. Knowing and following the rules, speaking the lingo, reading the weather.... and putting it all together to break out of the clouds and find the runway right in front of you. It's awesome.

Compared to you, I live in the tropics, but here's some thoughts. With a little experience and a lot of care, a non-fiki airplane is quite usable in the winter. Most days, the layer is not thick and fairly "dry". The majority of winter days it's quite possible to pop through a 1000' layer and not see any ice.

The FIP/CIP product put out by AWC has been really reliable for me; i assume canadia had something similar. If it shows below 50% chance of trace ice, I'll go. The skew-t pretty reliably shows layers and temperatures. Here, there's often a "warm nose"... an inversion that puts the cloud layer above freezing, although I suspect you'll see less of that. Pireps round out my icing big 3. I'm fortunate in that there's usually been a bizjet or a regional jet come in to my field within the last hour, and these are clearly the most reliable way to know bases & tops.

Obviously "dry clouds" is a bit of an oxymoron, but the thin layers that aren't making precipitation usually won't create much ice either. I've had ice 3 times, all trace: twice in the tops of rain clouds in June, and once in January when the clouds were juicier than I expected. It was a thin layer that I was only in for about 30s, and it sublimated quickly in the sunshine on top. You might more often see clouds that are already frozen. Below -10 or so the water is already frozen and won't stick to the plane. Around here if it's that cold I'm probably not flying anyway. My heater will keep me warm down to about -20, but pulling her in & out of the hangar just sucks too much.

At your latitude ice will be a threat for most of the year. The most important thing is to have a plan B. That, and don't plan to fly IN the clouds, fly through them to reach clear air on top. A minute of exposure is not going to kill you if the forecast misses, but 10min can. You CAN pick up lethal amounts of ice in a minute, but those situations are obvious and easy to avoid. In my experience Canadians are more pragmatic about ice than Americans, presumably because they have to deal with it more. A lot of the stuff I've picked up has been from postings by Canadian pilots.

Now after all that, here's the disclaimer.... you can pick up ice in any visible moisture near or below 0C. Don't screw around with it. Study it a lot, and creep up on it until you find your comfort level in your area. It's like playing with snakes, a lot of people just decide it's not worth it, and that's fine. Guys on the western shore of Michigan just can't fly IFR in the winter because the clouds are always loaded with moisture. I have no idea what the weather is like in your area, but the above is what works for me, here.
 
Reading this, watching videos and just generally reading through this IFR section of POA really sounds super exciting. Can't wait to get my IFR ticket and upgrade my plane to modern IFR standards, although I'll have to do it gradually over time to keep some gas money available so I still get to fly haha. One thing I worry about IFR where I live (frozen tundra north of y'all), most IFR days probably equal to bad icing days as well. Am I correct in that assumption? For those of you who live in the northern half of the U.S. do you actually get to fly a real IFR in GA aircraft without known icing capabilities?
As you know from having flown through it, the northern half of the US varies wildly: wet coast, high wet mountains, dry mountains, dry plains, wet plains, low wet mountains, and wet coast. Those variations affect the icing threat.
 
It was a broken layer. If had requested Special VFR he could have ditched any pretense of an approach and have been legal the whole time.
Can you get a special VFR in regular Class E airspace or is it just for B, C, D, and E surface areas?
 
Can you get a special VFR in regular Class E airspace or is it just for B, C, D, and E surface areas?
IIRC, only within the lateral boundaries of the surface area, regardless of whether you are landing, departing or transiting through.
 
Can you get a special VFR in regular Class E airspace or is it just for B, C, D, and E surface areas?
From 91.157:
“…of the lateral boundaries of the controlled airspace designated to the surface for an airport.”

Class E to the surface counts.
 
One thing I didn’t get towards the end was, he wanted to cancel ifr and go vfr. The controller said he can’t because of ceiling being (if I remember correctly) 1,800 ft. But wouldn’t that be vfr? Ultimately they did cancel his ifr and he landed vfr.
Keep in mind that technically you need to get 500 feet below the clouds before you can cancel IFR.
 
For those of you who live in the northern half of the U.S. do you actually get to fly a real IFR in GA aircraft without known icing capabilities?
Having lived in Minnesota, Michigan, and now Wisconsin, the answer is yes. It is often too cold for airframe icing, and with my 300 hp Bonanza I could usually get through a layer of icing in two or three minutes.
 
When I still lived in the Prairies, I wasn't all too eager to work on my IR. It's cold there, but very sunny so I never had to postpone a trip by more than a day to wait for VFR weather. However, now that I'm moving to the Great Lakes region, it's much warmer here we'll be right off of the lake so clouds are very common in the winter. I've been tracking the weather and it's not uncommon to not have a single VFR day in over a week in the winter. Obviously, that makes the instrument rating very attractive now but I worry about icing.
 
The problem with that video is many of the Mooney's transmissions are missing. It sounds like the guy was using his IPAD to fly the approach, if he had an ifr gps with the procedure loaded he should have been able to navigate to the waypoints and fly the approach. He was perfectly legal using the IPAD for charts, but to navigate he needs to use a certified, plane mounted GPS. At first I thought the controller was being a jerk, but then I realized he was hearing all this guy was saying. Also the controller offered to vector him to the ILS, which he should have been able to do with help from the controller, the guy didn't want that, which makes me think he's either not rated, or very unproficient.

I use an IPAD for charts, the plane I was flying, Cirrus g6s had the charts in the avionics, so the IPAD was a backup. Now I'm flying an Mooney with a 530w and 430w. No charts in the airplane. I just bought a mini ipad, when I imported all the stuff from my old ipad, my approach charts didn't load. I figured that out during a practice approach. Fortunately I have an Iphone with Foreflight loaded and the charts downloaded. But it reinforced that if you use an electronic flightbag for charts, you need a backup.
 
From 91.157:
“…of the lateral boundaries of the controlled airspace designated to the surface for an airport.”

Class E to the surface counts.
For example, I got a special-VFR clearance to depart from the class E surface area of Port Angeles, WA (CLM) once. (The rental plane had a VFR-only GPS.)
 
In the comments under the “video” or one of the many copies grifting off of the YouTube algorithm for money from copying LiveATC recordings, there’s a user who says the pilot was his grandpa, and he was the passenger, and they only had a hand mic or only one headset jack was working, or some similar stupid chit, and his grandpa “did a great job”.

(My guess is grandpa threw the pilot isolate switch.)

Further down there’s another comment that the controller was his dad and he “did a great job”.

Lol. The internet age. Nobody did a bad job and life is spiffy. The kids say so!

(And doxed grandpa and dad in the process. Now you can find both.)

“Now that we have covered the use of a seat belt and door for your safety, might I remind you that I’ll beat you to death with them if anything goes wrong and you post anything about the flight on social media?”

Kids. Can’t live with em, can’t eat em.
 
Back
Top