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Touchdown! Greaser!
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Cowboy - yeehah!
it depends. It depends.
Can an owner do a compression check?
- Thread starter Old Geek
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it depends. It depends.
poadeleted20
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You've certainly got the authority to give it to your mechanic and have him/her take care of the situation before further flight -- and I'd probably leave the plug out so s/he can check the compression him/herself before going further.
Greg Bockelman
Touchdown! Greaser!
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So what would be the problem with putting the readings in the logbook with a date and no signature? Maybe a notation saying "For Reference Only" or some such thing. I am sure a "licensed" mechanic would appreciate that information for trend reasons.
timwinters
Ejection Handle Pulled
Geico266
Touchdown! Greaser!
Negative. Anyone can work on any experimental. You needed an A&P to sign off the condition inspection. If you don't have the repairman's cert, but the owner can still do the compression check and ANY other work they want to. They don't have to lie about doing repairs.
We are taking about doing a simple compression check on an engine.
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Geico266
Touchdown! Greaser!
This from the guy who says a private pilot can legally ferry an airplane.
A PPL can certainly ferry an airplane within their rating.
What drugs have you all been taking?
Geico266
Touchdown! Greaser!
Exactly right.
I can and will log anything I want to in my plane's log books certified or experental. If you look at the books and don't like what you read don't buy the plane.
I can't believe this is being debated.
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Silvaire
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For cripes sakes people it's your airplane and it's your logbook. The only regulation is that a mechanic must record in the maintenance log any work he performs on the aircraft. I can't for the life of me figure out where this paranoid neurosis is originating from. Okay, I have an idea but I'm not gonna mention his name.
So, do I need to call up the local FSDO to find out if it's okay to do this? Can you open the window and hang your arm out?
So, do I need to call up the local FSDO to find out if it's okay to do this? Can you open the window and hang your arm out?
Greg Bockelman
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Well, for some individuals, they live in a world that is either the blackest of blacks, or the purest white there is. Most of the rest of us live in at least various shades of gray, if not full blown technicolor.
RotorAndWing
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Rotor&Wing
Can we associate the word "maven" with his name?
And for some individuals the internet has become a way to live out their fantasies.
Silvaire
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First of all the airplane is not "out of service" to begin with and no, a person without an A&P license cannot sign off a "return to service" entry - but you already know that right?
What has happened in this hypothetical example is that the owner has discovered that there might be something wrong with that cylinder and due to the fact that it is perfectly legal for him to perform his own compression test he doesn't have to wait until his next annual to find out as some people here seem to believe.
I'm going to have to say that these discussions here seem to often be completely irrational as though there is an assumption that an owner doing his own compression test has some hidden deceptive intent.
I'm not getting it
RotorAndWing
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Rotor&Wing
For cripes sakes people it's your airplane and it's your logbook. The only regulation is that a mechanic must record in the maintenance log any work he performs on the aircraft. I can't for the life of me figure out where this paranoid neurosis is originating from. Okay, I have an idea but I'm not gonna mention his name.
So, do I need to call up the local FSDO to find out if it's okay to do this? Can you open the window and hang your arm out?
The Chief Counsel has a letter Doofenshmirtz vs FAA in which they ruled on the legality of flying with your arm out the window of an airplane.
Of course, this is a secret ruling and only those with contacts inside FAA HQ can have access to this document.....
RotorAndWing
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I hope I don't have to tell you this but don't try it in an A320, okay?
Yea, the wind noise is really, really loud, plus it really screws with the pressurization.............
dtuuri
Final Approach
An airplane with the spark plugs removed is unairworthy and must be returned to service--even if the pilot isn't a licensed mechanic and is servicing the plugs himself. Of course, "spark plugs" are "preventive maintenance" he can sign off, so the question is, "Can he do it bundled with a low cylinder reading recorded in the entry?" I say no. Not only that, even a powerplant mechanic can't do it unless he's satisfactorily done it before under direction of a certified mechanic.
dtuuri
VanDy
Cleared for Takeoff
Wow. A Private pilot can not put a compression check into a logbook, it is considered MAINTENANCE.
FAR 1:Maintenance means inspection, overhaul, repair, preservation, and the replacement of parts, but excludes preventive maintenance.
It is a type of inspection. Plain and simple. You and I may not agree with it, but it's what the regs say.
-VanDy
FAR 1:Maintenance means inspection, overhaul, repair, preservation, and the replacement of parts, but excludes preventive maintenance.
It is a type of inspection. Plain and simple. You and I may not agree with it, but it's what the regs say.
-VanDy
RotorAndWing
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Date
Tach Time
Engine Time
Removed spark plugs and checked gap and cleaned. While spark plugs removed performed compression test, all cylinders above 70. Replaced spark plugs and re-torqued.
Joe Pilot
PPL #12345678
Wrong, they have to tell me what I cannot do. There is nothing in the FARs that says I can't inspect something, and a compression test is an inspection, nothing more. My inspections don't qualify to be used as an Annual inspection, but I can still use them for monitoring between annuals. The only maintenance involved is the removal and replacement of the spark plugs, and that is expressly listed in PT.43 owner maint items.
JHW
En-Route
Don't care. At oil changes I do a compression check and mag timing chesk for my own peace of mind. I don't log anything mainteance-wise that is not required to be recorded or that does not serve a purpose. In much the same way I don't keep a history of VOR checks beyond the current one and generally don't log my flight time beyond what is needed for currency. IMO individuals could learn a lot from corporate america's document retention policies. There is no good served by excessive retained paperwork.
Silvaire
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Look, I'm an A&P/IA and if you and half a dozen of your buddies want to "inspect" the airplane while it's open I'm all for it. In the end there is only one guy who signs it off and that's me. If you're mechanically inclined then you only need to garner a relationship with an A&P Mechanic such as myself and despite what Ron tells you it's not necessary to put the local FSDO on speed-dial.
Gosh...
Gosh...
dtuuri
Final Approach
70/80? No harm, no foul (pardon the pun). But the compression result I asked about was 50/80. Is that good enough in your private pilot opinion to return it to service for others to fly?
dtuuri
timwinters
Ejection Handle Pulled
It depends on which engine and where it's leaking. RTFM.
This from the guy who says a private pilot can legally ferry an airplane.
A private pilot can legally ferry an airplane.
dtuuri
Final Approach
Scuze me? Then why did you sign up for discourse?
Don't care. This is about the OP's question.
I certainly agree with that. But timing the mags requires a logbook entry, so unless you have a powerplant license you're illegal. I wouldn't buy a plane from an owner who liked to illegally wrench around on his own airplane without a mechanics license.
dtuuri
RotorAndWing
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Rotor&Wing
If a chicken and a half laid an egg and a half, how long would it take a rooster to hatch a hardware store?
Let's be reasonable here. If a PP did a compression check and found a low cylinder do you really think he would make such an entry in a log book and go fly the airplane? Or do you think he would find his mechanic and discuss with him?
50/80? Depends why it has 50, leaking past a valve I wouldn't return it to service, not for safety but for cost reasons. Once a valve is leaking to that extent it will start getting exponentially more expensive to repair. If it's still 50/80 there is a good chance I can fix it for $20 in materials and a few hours of time lapping it insitu. If it's leaking past the rings sure, I'd probably look in the cyl with a bore scope to see if there were any grooves being eaten in the cylinder, but even they wouldn't matter much to the repair cost before I get a convenient time to change it out.
RotorAndWing
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I'm about to shock you. A very large portion of the GA fleet is just that, owners with their tool box out in the hangar working away on their airplanes. They either find an A&P to sign it off or they do the work and don't say (or log) anything.
timwinters
Ejection Handle Pulled
No they can't, not even if they pay their share of expenses, because there is no common purpose. This was clearly spelled out in the Hancock letter regardless of how absurdly Levy wants to interpret it. The FAA views ferry flights as a commercial operation.
Not that I wouldn't do it without pause for a friend or acquaintance...but it's not legal.
Check out this thread:
private pilot moving an airplane
You are too narrowly defining a ferry flight. Any flight that operates on a Special Flight Permit is a ferry flight. If a PP's plane is out of annual, or otherwise 'un airworthy', and they get a ferry permit, they can most definitely fly it on the route intended.
w_privett
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Winnie Privett
In that case you would miss out on a great machine, as that fellow has some of the best looking, well kept aeroplanes you will find anywhere. At the same time you would not need to worry about it, I doubt he would be selling to anyone quite so full of themselves when there would be plenty of others who know at what they are looking.
dtuuri
Final Approach
I find the OP's premise to be unreasonble: Recording unrequired information in the aircraft logbook. So, finding a mechanic is what he should do and turn it over for confirmation/action.
dtuuri
dtuuri
Final Approach
You sound like you're answering from a mechanics point of view--all good answers. A private pilot can't legally do or sign that stuff off under "preventive maintenance".
dtuuri
Yeah, no need to log the compressions, just "Removed, clean and gapped plugs, reinstalled." Since the compression test is NOT maintenance that information is not required to be entered.
What I would do is just track the compressions in a separate 'unofficial' document.
dtuuri
Final Approach
I've seen 'em. Close coordination with an A/I is one thing, surreptitiously doing stuff on one's own is another. It's an easy line to cross, so I'd be very careful about buying from somebody like that. I wouldn't assume they have the integrity to always "do the right thing"--I'd have to "know" they always do.
Now if ya'll excuse me, I've got to drop out of this conversation.
dtuuri
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JHW
En-Route
great point and you've taught me a big lesson. FYI as an example of past transgressions, here is a picture of me picking up my seneca, 3 years before I flew it and sold it to someone who didn't mind me wrenching on it. Next time, when I get to the part about timing the mags on one of these projects, I'll call you for help.
thanks W, but you're not getting my bud light
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timwinters
Ejection Handle Pulled
Red herring.
A "ferry flight" in this context is simply moving someone else's plane for them. Besides, I never said "ferry flight" I said "ferrying an airplane."
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dtuuri
Final Approach
great point and you've taught me a big lesson. FYI as an example of past transgressions, here is a picture of me picking up my seneca, 3 years before I flew it and sold it to someone who didn't mind me wrenching on it. Next time, when I get to the part about timing the mags on one of these projects, I'll call you for help.
thanks W, but you're not getting my bud light
Hey, before I go--I seem to have struck a nerve with you two. Sorry 'bout that. It's not personal, just pointing out the legal from the illegal like the OP asked for. There's a lot of arrogant owners out there who don't need the FAA telling them how to twist wrenches. Only you guys know for sure where you stand on that point.
dtuuri