Can a HOA impose and collect fines for speeding (NC state)

Hang 4 said:
Well, ok - my neighborhood has ~1,100 homes. Not sure how I decide who to talk with. In my case it was fine when I moved in, 13 years later, every meeting is a screaming match. There's a few big issues that need to be resolved and I have zero confidence they can work through those issues. I suspect most HOA's are fine. My old neighborhood had one and the only issues were them not doing a lot when someone let their exterior get a bit ragged e.g. landscaping or paint. The new one has 4+ hour meetings where nothing gets resolved and everyone screams at everyone else. No one with a brain has any interest in getting on the board so it will likely continue for the foreseeable future.
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The number of homes is irrelevant. You just have to talk to enough neighbors to get an idea. And the way I did was drive around and when I see someone outside I would start talking to them. I also knocked on the future neighbors doors that were close to the house I was looking at and introduced myself. Not everyone wants to talk but I determined pretty quick that the HOA wasn't a problem.

As for them turning bad. It can happen. Fortunately, I didn't have that problem.
 
Something that is probably essential for getting an idea about the HOA is to attend a few meeting and look at past minutes.
 
Hang 4 said:
The folks who say you should just suck it up because you looked at some paper haven't lived in an HOA where the board is completely dysfunctional. They do stupid stuff, people start to object, the board circles the wagons and it spirals downward. Someone gets elected who is going to "fix it" and last about 6 months before getting kicked off or just quitting in frustration. Eventually no one wants to be on the board and the only ones on it are the little napoleons who got picked last in elementary school and are getting their payback now. NONE of this has anything to do with the bylaws or the documents you read when you buy nor can you figure this out ahead of time.

The speeding thing is good example. How was it decided there was a speeding issue in the first place? Were notes sent to residents asking them to slow down as a first step? Is there a posted speed limit? Could they have put up more signs? Is it residents or non-residents doing the speeding? Since they can't fine non-residents, how will they control those speeders (assuming there are any).

While I believe in Caveat Emptor, it's nearly impossible to do the due diligence on the board itself vs what's written in the bylaws.
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Some folks would blame citizens living under totalitarian regimes fire bringing it upon themselves. After all, they choose to live in countries where dictators could be elected or military coups could happen.
 
Hang 4 said:
Well, ok - my neighborhood has ~1,100 homes. Not sure how I decide who to talk with. In my case it was fine when I moved in, 13 years later, every meeting is a screaming match. There's a few big issues that need to be resolved and I have zero confidence they can work through those issues. I suspect most HOA's are fine. My old neighborhood had one and the only issues were them not doing a lot when someone let their exterior get a bit ragged e.g. landscaping or paint. The new one has 4+ hour meetings where nothing gets resolved and everyone screams at everyone else. No one with a brain has any interest in getting on the board so it will likely continue for the foreseeable future.
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These things ebb and flow based on the personalities involved. We have been thru long periods where our HOA functioned well. We have also been thru periods where it was dysfunctional due to conflict. My observation over 20 years in the same neighborhood is that "conflict people" get bored and search for new arguments once the emotional high of the dispute wears off, so periods of dysfunction generally resolve themselves over time.

State laws govern HOA operation and authority. Find your state here. Laws will require that the HOA has bylaws and that they follow those bylaws. If the bylaws are well written, they will require baseline best practices like public meetings, published minutes, periodic elections, recall procedures, etc. Our HOA bylaws actually require a lawyer to attend every board meeting to ensure compliance with bylaws and state law.

Right now our HOA is comically dysfunctional because there are 4 board members after the 5th resigned. Of course the remaining 4 paired off, every vote is a 2-2 impasse, and the 2 sides hate each other. But that all gets resolved in October when the next election.

It's all very messy, as democracy usually is. But the alternatives are anarchy or dictatorship. If you live out in the country, relative anarchy may be preferable. If you life in a very dense environment like a high rise condo, dictatorship may be the most functional solution. For the burbs, HOA's exist because they generally work better than the alternatives.
 
Bob Noel said:
Something that is probably essential for getting an idea about the HOA is to attend a few meeting and look at past minutes.
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Attending a meeting would be really good. Problem is sometimes the meetings are every quarter and your timing may not permit waiting that long.
 
In my neighborhood homes sold in less than 24 hours for the last two years. No way to saunter around and attend meetings or talk to neighbors. Minutes don’t reflect the screaming matches either.
 
Hang 4 said:
In my neighborhood homes sold in less than 24 hours for the last two years. No way to saunter around and attend meetings or talk to neighbors. Minutes don’t reflect the screaming matches either.
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Took me less than an hour to talk with enough neighbors to find out what the HOA was like.
 
Interesting neighborhood that so many people are that assessible. Of course, that experience would apply to all other HOA neighborhoods
 
Hang 4 said:
In my neighborhood homes sold in less than 24 hours for the last two years. No way to saunter around and attend meetings or talk to neighbors. Minutes don’t reflect the screaming matches either.
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If your realtor is worth a damn, they can advise you on which neighborhoods have reputations for good management and which ones are dumpster fires. The eye test usually works too. If the common areas are well maintained, that is a pretty good indicator that the HOA is functional.
 
Ed Haywood said:
If your realtor is worth a damn, they can advise you on which neighborhoods have reputations for good management and which ones are dumpster fires. The eye test usually works too. If the common areas are well maintained, that is a pretty good indicator that the HOA is functional.
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If every house looks exactly the same and there is no evidence from the outside that anyone has ever lived there, that is a pretty good indicator that the HOA is functional.
 
OK, think I've got it now. First the OP was wrong because he didn't read the HOA by-laws. Now he also F'ed up because he did not interview the neighbors. And lastly it's just TS if things change after 10 years and it gets to be a **** show. Just wait it out, got it.

Think there might be a point that some HOA's lose sight of what their mission is, or just never define it very well. As a result, they vastly overstep. Like speed cameras that can only fine resident speeders and do nothing for the non-residents that might be the problem, assuming there was a problem in the first place.

Sorry for mis-understanding how the world should work.
 
Hang 4 said:
The folks who say you should just suck it up because you looked at some paper haven't lived in an HOA where the board is completely dysfunctional. They do stupid stuff, people start to object, the board circles the wagons and it spirals downward. Someone gets elected who is going to "fix it" and last about 6 months before getting kicked off or just quitting in frustration. Eventually no one wants to be on the board and the only ones on it are the little napoleons who got picked last in elementary school and are getting their payback now. NONE of this has anything to do with the bylaws or the documents you read when you buy nor can you figure this out ahead of time.

The speeding thing is good example. How was it decided there was a speeding issue in the first place? Were notes sent to residents asking them to slow down as a first step? Is there a posted speed limit? Could they have put up more signs? Is it residents or non-residents doing the speeding? Since they can't fine non-residents, how will they control those speeders (assuming there are any).

While I believe in Caveat Emptor, it's nearly impossible to do the due diligence on the board itself vs what's written in the bylaws.
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How was it decided there was a speeding issue? Maybe someone’s idiot teenage lost control and ran over a street lamp pole. Maybe some one walking their dog got run over. Maybe it was from simple owner complaints about a few idiots.
 
Clip4 said:
How was it decided there was a speeding issue? Maybe someone’s idiot teenage lost control and ran over a street lamp pole. Maybe some one walking their dog got run over. Maybe it was from simple owner complaints about a few idiots.
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Or maybe a speed camera company offered them a way to add a revenue stream.
 
Half Fast said:
Or maybe a speed camera company offered them a way to add a revenue stream.
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"And now for the low-low of price of $YOUR-DIGNITY You too can install these cameras to pester your neighbors!!" :devil:
 
Half Fast said:
Or maybe a speed camera company offered them a way to add a revenue stream.
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Or maybe a relative of a board member has a new revenue stream. I honestly cannot see how this could ever pay for itself unless it’s horribly abused.
 
My argumeant would be how much money the system costs the HOA and how long they are obligated to have the system setup?
So if everyone follows the speed and no money is being collected, the company providing the system still has to be paid.
 
TommyG said:
My argumeant would be how much money the system costs the HOA and how long they are obligated to have the system setup?
So if everyone follows the speed and no money is being collected, the company providing the system still has to be paid.
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This is why I suggest someone has a piece of the camera company pie. In the best case scenario, nobody speeds and they are spending the money for nothing. Worst case, people still speed and they are spending the money for nothing.

There has to be a better way to deal with this problem. Unless you own a company that provides speeding camera services.
 
SkyChaser said:
Most people can't afford that.
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In NC, one doesn’t need a lawyer in small claims court.
A long time ago, a landlord tried to keep the security deposit on a rental house from my housemates and me. Professional students, kept the lawn mowed, reasonable upkeep. Literally 2 months rent, ostensibly over a broken window latch.
It took a morning of waiting in court, but we got our money back. Judge took maybe 10 minutes to rule in our favor.
 
Not a lawyer, but a refugee from the NE that fled to NC. Our HOA (not a gated community) got a bit OCD, and fumed about solar lights in driveways being too close, per County regs, to the street edge right-of-way, possibly being an issue for first responders. They voted to fine all who didn't remove them. As I understand it the County told the HOA it wasn't an issue within the HOA's scope - the County apparently would handle it (if/when it really bothered them) by knocking on the homeowner's door and asking them to push the lights back a couple feet. The County guy suggested to the HOA that if they wanted to do statutory enforcement they could incorporate as a town. . .until then fining people for violating County regs was reserved for the County. Not sure how it plated out - I moved (for reasons not HOA related).
 
I live in an HOA. We own the roads. We do not have a way to fine people for violating the rules. I know, in the past 27 years I have been the head of the architectural control committee (twice, I didn't say NO fast enough and I have the job again), head of the landscape committee (my wife has that job again) and president of the board, so I know the rules. And I know them well enough to put the kabosh on any attempt to change them. I wouldn't live in anyplace with an HOA that had more power than the one we're in now.
 
Zeldman said:
HOA has too much time on their hands.??

Inform them the drinking water contains dihydrogen oxide, which has been known to kill people...
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www.dhmo.org for more details about this hazardous chemical. Complete with MSDS sheet.

Country Flier said:
You said it sounded like, "there should be no consequences for violating rules I agreed to in writing."

I agreed to nothing. My parents live in a restricted access community. They have plate readers at every entrance to the community. The community sends me a bill for “unauthorized trespass” if I enter to go to my parents house without notifying the office first.
Now I suppose you could argue that my parents agreed to it…although they were against its installation and implementation, and they’ve lived there well before such technology existed.
Either way, my parents are elderly and I need to check in on them, sometimes at hours when the office I am suppose to notify for permission is closed.
So tell me again how this sounds “anti-authority”…
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Seeing as you didn't sign anything when your parents bought a house there, if I were you I'd send that bill back to them and tell them to pound sand. Especially if their office isn't open when you arrive.

Now, as a continuation of my previous post...

The covenant that we most religiously uphold is the one requiring people to keep their landscaping trimmed so they don't impact the neighbor's view. As a result, when you drive in you'd never guess that this neighborhood had been started in 1972. Changes to the covenants and bylaws are covered in the original documents. For the first 25 years no changes were permitted. From then on it is only every 5 years and it takes 66% or 75% (I forget which) of the lots to approve any change. And given that we were told many years ago (and I wish I had this in writing) that if we made any changes we would have to bring the whole mess into compliance with a state law that had changed in the interim, and that change outlawed a part of the covenants that we liked, we haven't made any changes to the covenants. I guess that is one way to stop the board from getting out of control.
 
The OP has decided to sell and move to some where else in the area. It is time to downsize anyway. I moved into the community originally for the waterfront but hope to have other cheaper options soon. Because of the wealthier refugees moving in, taxes have gone up. So has insurance. POA fees are at 1 AMU. I will miss the water view but it is time to downsize off of the water. Find a nearby property that the northern refugees are not interested in, no POA.

Funny though, I don’t follow the community social media, but my wife has said that the board has taken a lot of criticism. No surprise, apparently, was a lot of closed door shenanigans. No, community referendum or similar. And they lowered the posted limit from the original. Hopefully, humiliations galore.
 
Morgan3820 said:
The OP has decided to sell and move to some where else in the area. It is time to downsize anyway. I moved into the community originally for the waterfront but hope to have other cheaper options soon. Because of the wealthier refugees moving in, taxes have gone up. So has insurance. POA fees are at 1 AMU. I will miss the water view but it is time to downsize off of the water. Find a nearby property that the northern refugees are not interested in, no POA.

Funny though, I don’t follow the community social media, but my wife has said that the board has taken a lot of criticism. No surprise, apparently, was a lot of closed door shenanigans. No, community referendum or similar. And they lowered the posted limit from the original. Hopefully, humiliations galore.
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Dang, that's discouraging to hear, we've been eyeballing NC for retirement (we're .mil grey/pink collar nomads originally from the Great Plains and Caribbean respectively, not Northern affluent half-backers). New Bern is not exactly the Triangle or CLT, so if people are getting gentrified all the way down there, we may have to revisit this question as we get closer (we'd be somewhat tethered to CLT, since the wife wants mountain-proximate and big city hospital networks for work).

In fairness to NC, I hear the same thing about TN though, so it appears there's nowhere to escape to, at least migration patterns wise. If I wasn't tethered to the wife's job's demands, we could totally go rural, which there is plenty in NC still, for very affordable living. Alas, wish in one hand and s%%t on the other, see which one fills up first :D Good luck on the downsizing move, it's brutal in this Country to move these days.
 
hindsight2020 said:
Dang, that's discouraging to hear, we've been eyeballing NC for retirement (we're .mil grey/pink collar nomads originally from the Great Plains and Caribbean respectively, not Northern affluent half-backers). New Bern is not exactly the Triangle or CLT, so if people are getting gentrified all the way down there, we may have to revisit this question as we get closer (we'd be somewhat tethered to CLT, since the wife wants mountain-proximate and big city hospital networks for work).

In fairness to NC, I hear the same thing about TN though, so it appears there's nowhere to escape to, at least migration patterns wise. If I wasn't tethered to the wife's job's demands, we could totally go rural, which there is plenty in NC still, for very affordable living. Alas, wish in one hand and s%%t on the other, see which one fills up first :D Good luck on the downsizing move, it's brutal in this Country to move these days.
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FWIW, in my corner of NC, prior/active military are quite well received. Lot's of military presence in easteren NC. Everyone gets along fine. I would be happy to buy you a beer or two and show y'all around. Just mention my name and they'll let you in.
 
@hindsight2020 , you should take him up on his offer. I can personally attest to @Morgan3820 ’s gracious hospitality, and New Bern is a lovely town. I hear that his neighborhood is even a great place for street racing, as long as you have out-of-state tags.

Whatever you do, though, don’t move to Florida. Much too crowded with carpetbaggers. And the gators will kill your dog and the skeeters will kill your children.
 
Half Fast said:
@hindsight2020 , you should take him up on his offer. I can personally attest to @Morgan3820 ’s gracious hospitality, and New Bern is a lovely town. I hear that his neighborhood is even a great place for street racing, as long as you have out-of-state tags.

Whatever you do, though, don’t move to Florida. Much too crowded with carpetbaggers. And the gators will kill your dog and the skeeters will kill your children.
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Oh you don't have to worry about me contributing to the congestion problem in FL. Though it would be logistically the easiest spot for me to transition into handling my aging parent issues back in SJU, the wife veto'd that state already. If I was a betting man we'd likely end up somewhere in the lower Piedmont. Time will tell.
 
Albany Tom said:
:) My statement may have needed either better writing or some parens. People allowing things to exist that they don't like is a requirement of freedom, or more accurately, liberty. As compared to systems that try to force common behavior. Now, there are of course extremes.
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Which of those you think is happening largely depends on which side of the issue you agree with.
 
another one...
 

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Some local high school students took a picture of their teachers license plate and taped it over their license plate and then did numberous runs through the local speed cameras. I thought it was funny at the time. Maybe do the same with the HOA board tag numbers.
 
kshaw said:
Some local high school students took a picture of their teachers license plate and taped it over their license plate and then did numberous runs through the local speed cameras. I thought it was funny at the time. Maybe do the same with the HOA board tag numbers.
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I will admit to having been tempted (once) to simply re-arrange all the license plates in a parking lot... And thus giving the local PD a slight headache.
 
Here's an account of an HOA board that got REALLY out of control, and got arrested for it!

 
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