Calling FSS while in contact with ATC?

German guy

German guy

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Oliver
Hello,

I was wondering about how to correctly handle the communication with ATC, when flying IFR or while utilizing flight following, when I want to call a FSS?
Should I tell the controller that I will be gone for a few minutes and report back once I am done with the FSS? How would you phrase the request?

Regards,

Oliver
 
Give the controller your intentions ,gets frustrating. If you leave freq,without telling them.
 
"Center [or Approach]. Cessna 34X would like to leave the frequency to check with Flight Service"

ATC: "Approved. Report when back on the frequency." [sometimes with a restriction; sometimes they'll ask you to wait; sometimes...]
 
Hello Mark, hello Ron,

Thank you very much! :)

Regards,

Oliver
 
German guy said:
I was wondering about how to correctly handle the communication with ATC, when flying IFR or while utilizing flight following, when I want to call a FSS?
Should I tell the controller that I will be gone for a few minutes and report back once I am done with the FSS? How would you phrase the request?
Click to expand...

Just tell the controller you'd like to speak with FSS. He might just tell you to report back on his frequency, he might tell you to report back within a certain period of time, or he might tell you to hold off for a bit because he's got a situation that requires you to be on frequency.
 
Thanks for asking this question.
I wasn't positive how to handle this situation either.
 
It's also a good idea to tell the controller if you'll be monitoring "Guard" (121.5) while you're talking with FSS so if something pops up, they can still warn you.

"Center, Tiger 22RL request off freq three minutes for weather, monitor Guard, call when back."
 
If you're going to do that, why not just monitor the ATC frequency you were talking on previously.
 
flyingron said:
If you're going to do that, why not just monitor the ATC frequency you were talking on previously.
Click to expand...

Because you might/should already be monitoring guard and it doesn't require two radio tunes instead of one. It would also be substantially less distracting to have FSS+Guard instead of FSS+ATC.

But whatever works for you.

edit -- I wasn't quite thinking this through. I suppose you could switch your guard radio to FSS and just toggle the MIC to that radio. Wouldn't require two tunes that way.
 
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flyingron said:
If you're going to do that, why not just monitor the ATC frequency you were talking on previously.
Click to expand...
Too much chatter on both to be able to fully understand either. Unless your name is Data, your brain just isn't designed to process two audio feeds simultaneously.
 
I call FlightWatch a couple of times on each long cross country flight, to leave a pirep. I do it exactly as Mark suggests. It's easy, and it works great.
 
Thanks again for all the responses. :)

To monitor ATC on Com1 and toggle between 121.5 and ATIS or automated weather on Com2 is exactly what I do when I get close to my destination.
This kind of information is however easy to understand and I need to listen to it only for a short period of time. Also, I am only listening to a machine. If ATC talks to me, I simply toggle back to 121.5 an am immediately with ATC again.

With FSS this is however a different story, especially for me, as English is not my native language. If I call them for a weather briefing or to file an IFR flight plan (while I am on VFR flight following), I want to have my full attention on this conversation. I also wondered about what to do, if ATC calls me on Com1, while the guy in the FSS is in the middle of his briefing on Com2 – ATC would become unhappy if I don’t answer the call, the FSS guy would think I’m rude if I cut him off. To avoid this dilemma and to also reduce the stress for myself, I therefore like the suggestion, to temporarily leave the ATC-frequency, the best.

Oliver
 
German guy said:
To monitor ATC on Com1 and toggle between 121.5 and ATIS or automated weather on Com2 is exactly what I do when I get close to my destination.
Click to expand...
Just what I do for that, too.

With FSS this is however a different story, especially for me, as English is not my native language. If I call them for a weather briefing or to file an IFR flight plan (while I am on VFR flight following), I want to have my full attention on this conversation.
Click to expand...
Exactly why you want to put FSS on Com 1 and monitor Guard for any urgent ATC messages on Com 2 -- no division of attention or trying to listen to two people at once in your second language. Just make sure you check out with ATC when you go, and check back in when you're done with FSS -- no sneaking off the frequency without permission.
 
Just out of curiosity, does the answer change when inside Class B/C/D?

I've been waiting until out of the local nasty airspace for opening a VFR flight plan. Just wondering if I can do it earlier. I could imagine a 14 CFR 91.130(c)(1) problem. Paragraph (e) does seem to give an out IF you notify.
 
midlifeflyer said:
"Center [or Approach]. Cessna 34X would like to leave the frequency to check with Flight Service"

ATC: "Approved. Report when back on the frequency." [sometimes with a restriction; sometimes they'll ask you to wait; sometimes...]
Click to expand...
Yes..
 
MAKG1 said:
Just out of curiosity, does the answer change when inside Class B/C/D?

I've been waiting until out of the local nasty airspace for opening a VFR flight plan. Just wondering if I can do it earlier. I could imagine a 14 CFR 91.130(c)(1) problem. Paragraph (e) does seem to give an out IF you notify.
Click to expand...


Changing freqs...

In a Bravo... NO way..

In a Charlie... Maybe

In a Delta..... Freq change approved...

IMHO...
 
Ron Levy said:
It's also a good idea to tell the controller if you'll be monitoring "Guard" (121.5) while you're talking with FSS so if something pops up, they can still warn you.
Click to expand...

Not really. That controller may not have direct access to 121.5. What you should monitor is his frequency, you can be sure he has direct access to that one.
 
dukeblue219 said:
Because you might/should already be monitoring guard and it doesn't require two radio tunes instead of one. It would also be substantially less distracting to have FSS+Guard instead of FSS+ATC.

But whatever works for you.

edit -- I wasn't quite thinking this through. I suppose you could switch your guard radio to FSS and just toggle the MIC to that radio. Wouldn't require two tunes that way.
Click to expand...

The AIM sayeth:

"All aircraft operating in US national airspace
are highly encouraged to maintain a listening watch
on VHF/UHF guard frequencies (121.5 or 243.0
MHz). If subjected to a military intercept, it is
incumbent on civilian aviators to understand their
responsibilities and to comply with ICAO standard
signals relayed from the intercepting aircraft.
Specifically, aviators are expected to contact air
traffic control without delay (if able) on the local
operating frequency or on VHF/UHF guard.
Noncompliance may result in the use of force."

I wouldn't be too concerned about a military intercept when flying IFR or while utilizing flight following. If there's an issue it's a safe bet ATC will let you know about it.
 
Did it last weekend.....


Tulsa approach, N1234.

34 go ahead

34, I'd like to switch to McCalister Radio for pireps.

n1234 frequency change approved, report back on frequency, Tulsa altimeter 30.24.

34, approved, Report back on frequency


Eaaassssyyyy.....peeeeaasy.
 
Ron Levy said:
Too much chatter on both to be able to fully understand either. Unless your name is Data, your brain just isn't designed to process two audio feeds simultaneously.
Click to expand...

Your brain may be that way. I've been doing this for ages, I'm sure many others have too.
 
Ron Levy said:
[...] Exactly why you want to put FSS on Com 1 and monitor Guard for any urgent ATC messages on Com 2 -- no division of attention or trying to listen to two people at once in your second language. Just make sure you check out with ATC when you go, and check back in when you're done with FSS -- no sneaking off the frequency without permission.
Click to expand...

I am sorry, this is not what I meant. What I wanted to say is that I would toggle between guard and FSS on Com2. If I talk to FSS on Com2, I would not monitor ATC or anything else on Com1. I think, this is also what you are suggesting!?
 
N801BH said:
Changing freqs...

In a Bravo... NO way..

In a Charlie... Maybe

In a Delta..... Freq change approved...

IMHO...
Click to expand...

:yeahthat:

Few things that I want to talk to FSS about are so urgent that I can't wait a few minutes to clear the controlled airspace.
 
roncachamp said:
Your brain may be that way. I've been doing this for ages, I'm sure many others have too.
Click to expand...

It really helps (at least, it helps me) to have an audio system that can put one frequency in one ear and the other freq in the other.
 
Best to test it, too... many people THINK their audio system will do it, and don't realize the audio amp is switched off or the proximity of one VHF transmitter to the other, just obliterates the ability to actually RECEIVE anything.

Tune in an ATIS on one, and make a call on the other. See what you hear when the PTT is depressed...
 
roncachamp said:
Not really. That controller may not have direct access to 121.5.
Click to expand...
That's the controller's problem, not mine, but it's the first I've ever heard that a Center or TRACON controller couldn't talk on Guard.

What you should monitor is his frequency, you can be sure he has direct access to that one.
Click to expand...
I've been doing it the way I said for over 40 years, and I've never had a controller suggest staying on the ATC freq while talking with weather/FSS. OTOH, trying to listen to both freq's at once might end up with you missing whatever they both are saying.
 
German guy said:
I am sorry, this is not what I meant. What I wanted to say is that I would toggle between guard and FSS on Com2. If I talk to FSS on Com2, I would not monitor ATC or anything else on Com1. I think, this is also what you are suggesting!?
Click to expand...
No, it is not. I'm suggesting that if you want to talk to FSS, you ask ATC for permission to be off ATC's freq for a couple of minutes. Then switch from ATC to FSS on your primary comm while continuing to monitor Guard on your second comm. That way ATC can call if you if necessary, but you can maintain your full attention on your conversation with FSS.
 
Ron Levy said:
That's the controller's problem, not mine, but it's the first I've ever heard that a Center or TRACON controller couldn't talk on Guard.

I've been doing it the way I said for over 40 years, and I've never had a controller suggest staying on the ATC freq while talking with weather/FSS. OTOH, trying to listen to both freq's at once might end up with you missing whatever they both are saying.
Click to expand...

Controller's problem? Why would the controller care if you were monitoring guard? If the controller needs you on frequency he'll tell you to stay on frequency, your chat with weather/FSS will have to wait.

So for forty years you've believed that wherever you could speak with ATC on an assigned frequency you could also speak with that controller on 121.5, but it was never actually that way. While frequencies 121.5/243.0 are available at FSS and most ATC facilities, a transceiver on the ARTCC roof is not particularly useful to a controller working airspace several hundred miles away.
 
Ron Levy said:
No, it is not. I'm suggesting that if you want to talk to FSS, you ask ATC for permission to be off ATC's freq for a couple of minutes. Then switch from ATC to FSS on your primary comm while continuing to monitor Guard on your second comm. That way ATC can call if you if necessary, but you can maintain your full attention on your conversation with FSS.
Click to expand...

From AIM 6−3−1. Distress and Urgency Communications, subparagraph h.:

"1. 121.5 MHz and 243.0 MHz. Both have a
range generally limited to line of sight. 121.5 MHz is
guarded by direction finding stations and some
military and civil aircraft. 243.0 MHz is guarded by
military aircraft. Both 121.5 MHz and 243.0 MHz are
guarded by military towers, most civil towers, FSSs,
and radar facilities. Normally ARTCC emergency
frequency capability does not extend to radar
coverage limits. If an ARTCC does not respond when
called on 121.5 MHz or 243.0 MHz, call the nearest
tower or FSS."
 
pericynthion said:
It really helps (at least, it helps me) to have an audio system that can put one frequency in one ear and the other freq in the other.
Click to expand...
It depends what you are talking about.

Yeah, monitoring one frequency while speaking on another is no big deal for a lot of people. Many of us do it as a matter of course when listening to ATIS or AWOS. No problem picking up your tail number and responding when COM 1 is set for one's ATC communication and Com 2 is set for an ATIS or AWOS that is repeating itself.

But change that to engaging in 2-way communications on both frequencies and having to switch between them and it's a different issue.

Can some folks do it? Maybe, but it is going to take a pretty special combination of talent, skill and experience. Strikes me more like the guy or gal who insists she can text and drive while repeatedly going onto the shoulder. And if you are one of the chosen few, it's still a LOT more work than simply asking to switch over for a few minutes. Consider that if ATC calls, you will be telling FSS to stand by, switching which COM you are speaking on, talking to ATC, switching back. Maybe more than once.

And what about others? I've heard queues with FSS and FlightWatch. So while you are telling FSS to stand by while you handle the higher priority ATC communication, you are at least creating a delay for others (you may not care) or for yourself if FSS decides you are going to be bumped further down the line).
 
I don't know about you guy/gals.. But the last few times I either had a VERY hard time contacting FSS or didn't make contact at all...
 
midlifeflyer said:
It depends what you are talking about.

Yeah, monitoring one frequency while speaking on another is no big deal for a lot of people. Many of us do it as a matter of course when listening to ATIS or AWOS. No problem picking up your tail number and responding when COM 1 is set for one's ATC communication and Com 2 is set for an ATIS or AWOS that is repeating itself.

But change that to engaging in 2-way communications on both frequencies and having to switch between them and it's a different issue.

Can some folks do it? Maybe, but it is going to take a pretty special combination of talent, skill and experience. Strikes me more like the guy or gal who insists she can text and drive while repeatedly going onto the shoulder. And if you are one of the chosen few, it's still a LOT more work than simply asking to switch over for a few minutes. Consider that if ATC calls, you will be telling FSS to stand by, switching which COM you are speaking on, talking to ATC, switching back. Maybe more than once.

And what about others? I've heard queues with FSS and FlightWatch. So while you are telling FSS to stand by while you handle the higher priority ATC communication, you are at least creating a delay for others (you may not care) or for yourself if FSS decides you are going to be bumped further down the line).
Click to expand...

I don't think it takes any special skill or talent. It just takes being exposed to that environment until you get used to it. As Steven said, he'd been doing it for years.

Controllers have multiple frequencies up. You might have military talking on UHF while civilian talking on VHF at the same time. You could have an arrival controller working multiple aircraft on GCA with each of them assigned their own freq. They're gonna talk over themselves and any decent controller will be able to decipher each transmission. Then you've got landlines blaring in the background that create a further distraction. You have to be able to key up a landline, talk to the controller while at the same time listen and comprehend "N12345 checking in at 5,000" over the speaker.

Hardest part in all that isn't even understanding who wants what. It's issuing instructions while simultaneously writing on a strip while in the back of your mind formulating a plan for your traffic. Takes months sometimes years of training while working moderate to heavy traffic to get it down. Don't know how many times my monitors physically grabbed my hand and slammed it on the strip board and said "Write!"

For a typical GA pilot is it necessary to have both FSS and ATC up at once? Probably not but I'd say the odds of the controller giving an instruction during the enroute phase while FSS just happened to be talking would be slim. If you can't listen to both at once then turn the volume down on FSS briefly. Heck, plenty of times I hear pilots tell approach say again and they aren't even listening on another freq.

To the OP, just do what you feel comfortable with. You're a Part 91 private pilot. No use giving yourself more distractions than necessary.
 
multitaskingdemotivator.jpg


But seriously, the more I think about it, the more I come to the conclusion that it is simply quite rude to either put FSS on hold when ATC calls or to try to juggle between two, possibly quite complex, conversations.

ATIS won't feel offended if I simply turn it off, when ATC calls. I also have to listen to it only briefly. Getting a weather briefing from a person sitting in the FSS, is however a different story, IMHO. :dunno:
 
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