Caffeine Addiction

Wow Greg. Thats a nasty habit. I quit drinking sodas years ago and only have a diet soda every now and then. I mostly drink teas and water now. After I quit sodas tasted like drinking extra sweet syrup, nasty.
 
bullwinkle said:
I should be equally obnoxious and tell you to do your own research, since you probably won't believe mine anyway. But I'm in a nice mood, so here's just one of many:

From Diabetes Care, the Journal of the Diabetes Association
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If you insist.

I'm in a bad mood, and your smart a$$ response doesn't help. The journal article you referenced makes an interesting observation about diabetes management (a 2 year-old observation with conclusions contrary to the published literature). A rise in insulin levels is worrisome in a Type II diabetic. However, as far as I know Greg is not one of those, thus the insulin response is far more benign than would be encountered from ingestion of large amounts of sucrose.
 
steingar said:
I'm in a bad mood, and your smart a$$ response doesn't help. The journal article you referenced makes an interesting observation about diabetes management (a 2 year-old observation with conclusions contrary to the published literature). A rise in insulin levels is worrisome in a Type II diabetic. However, as far as I know Greg is not one of those, thus the insulin response is far more benign than would be encountered from ingestion of large amounts of sucrose.
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Not sure how my response referencing your admitted obnoxious demand for me to do your reading for you is somehow worse than the original demand, but whatever.

So your information is "the published literature" because it supports you, but my article from a medical journal is "contrary to the published literature" because it doesn't? Convenient.
 
C'mon guys.

Lay it out there, neither of you is the publisher of this stuff.

Play nice.
 
bullwinkle said:
Not sure how my response referencing your admitted obnoxious demand for me to do your reading for you is somehow worse than the original demand, but whatever.

So your information is "the published literature" because it supports you, but my article from a medical journal is "contrary to the published literature" because it doesn't? Convenient.
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No, but the case study from 2007 stands alone as far as I can tell, and has not been corroborated. Moreover, the authors fail to cite relevant literature, and make an incorrect speculation as part of their conclusions.

One the other hand, there is a literally gigantic volume of data outlining the physiological response to things like sugars and proteins which would utterly preclude the author's conclusions. Moreover, they carried out their one study in Type II diabetics, who exist in a physiologically abnormal state, suggesting their conclusions may not be universally applicable.

I only hesitantly asked you for a citation because what you said flew in the face of established dictums in metabolic physiology. Since I see only one study that is internally consistent, I am not yet convinced that this large body of work is in need of revision.
 
steingar said:
No, but the case study from 2007 stands alone as far as I can tell, and has not been corroborated. Moreover, the authors fail to cite relevant literature, and make an incorrect speculation as part of their conclusions.

One the other hand, there is a literally gigantic volume of data outlining the physiological response to things like sugars and proteins which would utterly preclude the author's conclusions. Moreover, they carried out their one study in Type II diabetics, who exist in a physiologically abnormal state, suggesting their conclusions may not be universally applicable.

I only hesitantly asked you for a citation because what you said flew in the face of established dictums in metabolic physiology. Since I see only one study that is internally consistent, I am not yet convinced that this large body of work is in need of revision.
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Fair enough. I'm just saying anybody on the borderline or who is diabetic already should be very careful what they put in their bodies, and should probably stick to water. :smile:
 
Keane said:
I ended up quitting a pretty bad Coke (a cola) habit about a year and a half ago. My company started doing a free drink program, so I was getting ~a dozen 16+ oz cups of Coke a day! It was so extremely bad...
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I wasn't that bad, but the fact that the cafeteria is on the ground floor, my cubicle is on the 3rd floor and I gave up the elevators for New Years combined to stop me from having any except with lunch. YMMV.

Greg Bockelman said:
Thing is, in certain cases, even water isn't good for you.
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Indeed. As I've posted before, check out www.dhmo.org for the lowdown on this extremely hazardous chemical.
 
I found water to be an acquired taste. When I quit carbonated AND caffeinated drinks a while back, I went to only water or Gatorade (and an occasional Crown & Coke of course).

I didn't think I felt 'bad' before, but once I had time to get the old carbonation and caffeine out of my system, I had more energy and slept better at night. Unfortunately, I had to pull an all-nighter and fell back into the caffeine cave.

This has given me motivation to give it another go - no caffeine or carbonation for me (unless mixed with an alcoholic beverage). So one of two things will happen - I'll start feeling better and have more energy, or I'll become a raging alcoholic. :D
 
Greg Bockelman said:
Well, that, and it IS possible to drink TOO MUCH water.
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There was a woman in Sacramento, I think, who died from drinking too much water a few years back. She was competing in some contest regarding who could drink the most water. As I recall her relatives sued the radio or TV station which was putting on the contest.
 
Everskyward said:
There was a woman in Sacramento, I think, who died from drinking too much water a few years back. She was competing in some contest regarding who could drink the most water. As I recall her relatives sued the radio or TV station which was putting on the contest.
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Also, there has been at least once case where a student died drinking too much water for a fraternity challenge at Chico State...
 
Wow. And I thought my Diet Coke habit was bad. :nonod:

We've gone to drinking a lot of "lemonade". Water, lemon juice (from the jugs you get at Costco) and a bit of Splenda or Truvia.
 
Everskyward said:
There was a woman in Sacramento, I think, who died from drinking too much water a few years back. She was competing in some contest regarding who could drink the most water. As I recall her relatives sued the radio or TV station which was putting on the contest.
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I believe it was "Hold your wee for a Wii". MSRP at the time: ~$299 I believe.
 
IIRC, they (the people that died) were drinking literally gallons of water in a matter of a few hour(s).

It seems like the true cause-of-death was that the blood or sugar in the blood got diluted so much that they basically drowned themselves from the inside out.

Drinking enough water to do that seems highly unlikely for someone that doesn't really like water in the first place. ;)
 
I sometimes drink too much coffee, and get dehydrated. That causes headaches, and the solution there is to lay off the coffee and drink plenty of water for a day or so. Not gallons of it, though. I read somewhere that a little lemon juice in it will make the body retain more of it, and it seems to work. Maybe that's another legend?

Dan
 
some days I'll drink way too much coffee (a couple of pots?) and other days I'll drink none - and the scary/odd thing is I don't feel any different either situation. I don't typically have any coffee after 2pm'ish, tho ...
 
What about real fruit juice? I suppose it's only as dangerous as water, maybe less so. I still must have a cup of Joe in the morning, but I've learned that one cup of coffee and one cup of real fruit juice- preferably not from concentrate, but it's not important- does me more good than two cups of coffee.
I used to swear by Snapple until I realized how much corn syrup vs. juice I was drinking. Real juice is a little more expensive, but not much.

I don't presently own a juicer, but I will be getting another soon... that's the ultimate (at home, anyway). A little work making your own juice, but worth it. If you're used to a lot of corn or cane sugar in your drinks, it's weird at first... but believe me, fruits have plenty of their own sugar, and I think it's better for you. Lots more real nutrition in whole fruit, also.

As for getting off Mountain Dew: I had a habit myself, once when I had a job that gave me free access to all I could drink. No big deal weaning myself of it... but I understand the craving. I'm not sure if it's the caffeine, the sugar or just force of habit.
Only advice I can give is to have an OJ or cranberry or apple juice instead, or make your own juice.
That, and: pour a glass of Dew and a glass of antifreeze and place them side by side... take a good look at both. That might help you. :D
 
rottydaddy said:
What about real fruit juice? I suppose it's only as dangerous as water, maybe less so. I still must have a cup of Joe in the morning, but I've learned that one cup of coffee and one cup of real fruit juice- preferably not from concentrate, but it's not important- does me more good than two cups of coffee.
I used to swear by Snapple until I realized how much corn syrup vs. juice I was drinking. Real juice is a little more expensive, but not much.
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+1. I find that orange juice seems to work better than other juices, but a large glass in the morning is a great boost, especially after not getting enough sleep it's every bit as good, actually better, as my beloved green fizzy stuff. :yes:
 
Water...God's fluid.

My theory is that if one drinks God's fluid all day long, then switches to the devil's juice at night, he breaks even for the day.
:smile:
 
Well, I declared myself caffeine free as of yesterday, Sunday, October 18. Now I will work on the other stuff. Water and milk for the most part. I am going to give it a month and see how I feel then.

Since I have never felt any real difference without caffeine in the past, I found it very easy to "fall off the wagon" so to say. We shall see what happens this time.
 
Greg Bockelman said:
Well, I declared myself caffeine free as of yesterday, Sunday, October 18. Now I will work on the other stuff. Water and milk for the most part. I am going to give it a month and see how I feel then.

Since I have never felt any real difference without caffeine in the past, I found it very easy to "fall off the wagon" so to say. We shall see what happens this time.
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Good luck, Greg. I've been off caffeine for almost 3 years now. The first thing I noticed was how poorly I was sleeping while on the juice. The first thing my doctor noticed was my heart rate dropping from an average of 96 bpm to an average of 62 bpm.

Now that I'm doing business in Miami, I will cheat a couple times a month and have a shot of colada. It's amazing what it does to my heart rate but dang the stuff is good lol.
 
There really isn't all that much caffeine in soda pop to begin with, far less than coffee or tea. You really shouldn't notice that big a difference, although you were drinking a fair amount. I think you would "feel" a greater physiological change from the sweeteners.
 
steingar said:
There really isn't all that much caffeine in soda pop to begin with, far less than coffee or tea. You really shouldn't notice that big a difference, although you were drinking a fair amount. I think you would "feel" a greater physiological change from the sweeteners.
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Is it possible you mistook colada for cola? My bad for not explaining properly the first time.

Here's info on coladas.
 
At work, it is water all day (I keep a britta in a little dorm style fridge), except for one 20oz Gatoraide after my 4 mile lunch run. At home, skim milk. Once in a while, fruit juice, although there is a lot of sugar in juices.

Sodas? Never have them in the house unless we're having guests, and it normally goes flat and down the drain before we finish the stuff.
 
bullwinkle said:
Sorry, but start drinking real water. If you do it for three months, then drink a Mountain Dew, it will taste like drinking syrup...it will literally nauseate you to drink a whole 20oz bottle. Water is the thing your body wants.

Good Luck!
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I did this in 2004. Stopped my gallon of Coca-Cola a day habit, cold turkey, Drank water, water, and more water. That was a chore because the water at work is sulfur laden and I would fill bottle upon bottle of water at home and bring it in to work. That lasted for about 6 months or so, and I had a Coca-Cola at a restaurant. And then another, and then another. Oh, how I forgot how tasty and so much better tasting it was than water. I will never leave you again my sugar-laden friend.

Sorry, Coca-Cola is what my body wants. The only time I drink water is when playing sports.
 
SkyHog said:
I am stupidly addicted to soda. I was drinking over a 6pack a day of Dr. Pepper, before I decided to go diet. I lost 15 pounds the first month of going Diet.

But the problem is that it is only a temporary stop gap, as I am now addicted to diet sodas, and I know that's not good for me either.

I tried Kool Aid, but it didn't really work. If you find anything, Greg, let me know.
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Nick- You're engaged now,stand in line for the Kool Aid:rolleyes:
 

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rottydaddy said:
What about real fruit juice? I suppose it's only as dangerous as water, maybe less so. I still must have a cup of Joe in the morning, but I've learned that one cup of coffee and one cup of real fruit juice- preferably not from concentrate, but it's not important- does me more good than two cups of coffee.

I don't presently own a juicer, but I will be getting another soon... that's the ultimate (at home, anyway). A little work making your own juice, but worth it. If you're used to a lot of corn or cane sugar in your drinks, it's weird at first... but believe me, fruits have plenty of their own sugar, and I think it's better for you. Lots more real nutrition in whole fruit, also.

:D
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The fruit juices still have large amounts of sugar but for a diabetic and others, this is balanced out by the positive effect of the high fiber (when you squeeze your own).
 
bullwinkle said:
What is going to get you is the sugar. Soft drinks, fruit punch, fruit juice...all have a large amount of sugar (NINE teaspoons of sugar in a 12oz can of Cola). This is going to lead to insulin resistance, metabolic syndrome, possibly pancreatitis and diabetes. You were just not designed to process that much sugar daily. Some data suggests that sugar also fuels the inflammatory processes in the body that cause things like heart disease. It just cannot end well.

According to my reading, the problem with aspartame/Nutrasweet is that it causes the same insulin response that sugar does, without giving you actual glucose for the insulin to process. That leads to similar issues as sugar. Splenda might be somewhat better in that it does not cause this response, but it does contain chlorine and the jury's out as to what long term exposure to Splenda might do to you.

Caffeine is not as big a deal in comparison, IMO. You are getting the equivalent of a few cups of coffee a day, which many people tolerate with no issues.

Sorry, but start drinking real water. If you do it for three months, then drink a Mountain Dew, it will taste like drinking syrup...it will literally nauseate you to drink a whole 20oz bottle. Water is the thing your body wants.

Good Luck!
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I certainly agree, the process of TONS of sugar, then none, literally kills your pancreas. It has to dump out tons of insulin then stop, then go, then stop etc. The only drink that is truly good for you is straight water. The problem with fruit juices is that the sugar can escape into you system faster than the actual fruit. What you want in all foods and drinks is a slow release of sugar, good for your pancreas and body. Think of it as a Turbo charged engine, it is terrible for it to go full throttle all the time. You wouldn't come screaming in at full throttle then go straight to idle on short final right? Well same goes for your pancreas... DRINK WATER, H20, Dihydrogen Monoxide, Liquid ice, considering out body is 75% of it, I think it makes sense to drink it.
 
Diet drinks are about the worst thing you could possibly drink, There is no sugar in them, so your pancreas dumps tons of insulin when your tongue sends a signal to your brain that says "sweet" which sends a signal to your pancreas to dump insulin... though there is no sugar for the insulin so eventually your pancreas will block these signals... at this point your pancreas does not work.
 
HawkEye007 said:
Diet drinks are about the worst thing you could possibly drink, There is no sugar in them, so your pancreas dumps tons of insulin when your tongue sends a signal to your brain that says "sweet" which sends a signal to your pancreas to dump insulin... though there is no sugar for the insulin so eventually your pancreas will block these signals... at this point your pancreas does not work.
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The tongue and brain aren't involved. Blood levels of glucose and certain amino acids are the main trigger. Adrenaline is another trigger. There are some other triggers as well but the mechanism described in the quote isn't one of them.
 
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