Bread machine recommendations?

Alexb2000 said:
If you're asking me, yes. I paid for a very old starter yeast captured from the original Naples pizzeria.

You can get some here:

http://sourdoughs.net/Naples Pizza Culture.html
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See, thing about that is I spent all last summer in Italy and never once had a good pizza crust, and there was only one place that had decent bread. Luckily Cap D'ail was a right up the track from our home port and excellent bread was available there. I was really really disappointed with the quality of the pizza crusts. :(
 
Henning said:
See, thing about that is I spent all last summer in Italy and never once had a good pizza crust, and there was only one place that had decent bread. Luckily Cap D'ail was a right up the track from our home port and excellent bread was available there. I was really really disappointed with the quality of the pizza crusts. :(
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I agree, but I don't think it's the yeast. They tend to make their dough window pane thin and cook it either cracker dry or limp depending on the location. I want enough crispy bottom structure to hold it in your hand vs. knife and fork and yet enough thickness to give you just a little soft bread chew. I have taken cooking classes in Italy and the consensus was that we had to agree to disagree.
 
There's some stuff called "dough conditioner" that seems to help the texture in the bread machines. I got some after getting a sampler pack of pre-made stuff(powder just add water mixes) and noting what came out was a lot better than the basic white bread recipes.
 
cowman said:
There's some stuff called "dough conditioner" that seems to help the texture in the bread machines. I got some after getting a sampler pack of pre-made stuff(powder just add water mixes) and noting what came out was a lot better than the basic white bread recipes.
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Well since you mentioned it, this is one of my secrets I use diastatic malt in my dough. It is the active ingredient in a lot of dough conditioners and is much cheaper individually. You might experiment with malt it also adds a nice depth of flavor.
 
janikpilot said:
I'm really glad I started this :D

Is there anything wrong with just making bread in the oven in a bread pan? I might do that to save some money if it's just simple ingredients.
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I had never baked bread before I found this book. The master recipe in the book is easy - flour, warm water, yeast packet, salt, no kneading, no starter, no proofing. Mix the ingredients by hand in bowl, allow to rise on counter for 2 hours, stick in fridge and use portions over the next two weeks. When you want some bread, pull out and cut off a chunk, fold the edges up under the dough ball, and bake per their directions.

There are tons of other recipes building off the general procedures of the master recipe in the book. I'm sure it's not world-class bread, but it works for me as a relatively painless way to bake fresh bread.
 
I like baking bread old-school. But it does mean you have to hang around the house for a while. If you don't have anything else going on, it's not too bad.

I think I only had one 'failure', and I can't remember where I went wrong. Somehow the dough rose a whole lot more than I expected when the loaf pan was in the oven. I ended up with the top of the bread loaf about 2x higher than normal, to the point it got stuck to the top of the oven. That was pretty cool, actually.
 
Henning said:
None! They all SUCK!!! Seriously, I have seen and experienced most every one available in use by some extremely qualified chefs, and never once have I had good bread out of one, the texture is never right. Every yacht has three of these machines in the bilge, the never get used, just bake bread the normal way, on a stone in an oven.
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Jeeeeezus...someone make it stop...
 
RalphInCA said:
Slight thread hijack here...

Is it true that some bread makers use yeast that is hundreds of years old? Or is this an urban legend?
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Legend. Yeast doesn't live that long. It's like saying that we're the same cavemen that our ancestors were 20,000 years ago.

Plus yeast / starter / poolish take on the attributes of the local environment over time. So you grandmother might have been feeding her grandmother's 1880 San Francisco starter for 150 years, but its nothing like the original.
 
I just do it old-school. I never met a bread machine that I really liked. They're all mediocre, in my opinion.

Rich
 
asechrest said:
I had never baked bread before I found this book. The master recipe in the book is easy - flour, warm water, yeast packet, salt, no kneading, no starter, no proofing. Mix the ingredients by hand in bowl, allow to rise on counter for 2 hours, stick in fridge and use portions over the next two weeks. When you want some bread, pull out and cut off a chunk, fold the edges up under the dough ball, and bake per their directions.

There are tons of other recipes building off the general procedures of the master recipe in the book. I'm sure it's not world-class bread, but it works for me as a relatively painless way to bake fresh bread.
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This sounds delicious! I will have to try it soon.

I have a Regal breadmaker that I got as a wedding gift. It's ok. I used to use it a lot early on, but I agree that by-hand is really no harder and tastes a lot better.

Not a bread recipe, but one of my favorite things to make with dough: http://www.foodnetwork.com/recipes/alton-brown/homemade-soft-pretzels-recipe.html
 
Mrs. SixPapaCharlie said:
This sounds delicious! I will have to try it soon.

I have a Regal breadmaker that I got as a wedding gift. It's ok. I used to use it a lot early on, but I agree that by-hand is really no harder and tastes a lot better.

Not a bread recipe, but one of my favorite things to make with dough: http://www.foodnetwork.com/recipes/alton-brown/homemade-soft-pretzels-recipe.html
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It's not bad for an easy, quick artisan loaf. It results in a crispy crust and a softer, dense inside. I like to make a loaf and then dip it in seasoned olive oil.

I really think, though, that the scores of other recipes in the book are where this method is going to shine. The entire book builds off of this "easy" no-knead procedure, and has everything from dessert breads to whitebread-style soft crust loaf that even kids who're used to the commercial sandwich breads should like.

All that's left is for me to quit being lazy and try a bunch of them. And thanks for the pretzel recipe, I'll have to try that.
 
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Henning said:
Thing the machines never give me is a crisp crust.
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Apparently you didn't know what your doing then. Or you let it sit in the machine long after it's done.

Or you have a crappy machine.
 
timwinters said:
Apparently you didn't know what your doing then. Or you let it sit in the machine long after it's done.

Or you have a crappy machine.
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I'm not the one using them, but by the prices, they best not be crappy.
 
asechrest said:
I had never baked bread before I found this book. The master recipe in the book is easy - flour, warm water, yeast packet, salt, no kneading, no starter, no proofing. Mix the ingredients by hand in bowl, allow to rise on counter for 2 hours, stick in fridge and use portions over the next two weeks. When you want some bread, pull out and cut off a chunk, fold the edges up under the dough ball, and bake per their directions.

There are tons of other recipes building off the general procedures of the master recipe in the book. I'm sure it's not world-class bread, but it works for me as a relatively painless way to bake fresh bread.
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My wife gave me Flour, Yeast, Salt & Water for Christmas - tons of information from everything to same day doughs to levains to pizza and focaccia doughs...fantastic book, very detailed. I strongly recommend it (no I do not get royalties).
 
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Flying Viking said:
My wife gave me Flour, Yeast, Salt & Water for Christmas - tons of information from everything to same day doughs to levains to pizza and focaccia doughs...fantastic book, very detailed. I strongly recommend it (no I do not get royalties).
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Thanks for that. I'll have to take a look. Looks like a nice second step once I finish getting my feet wet.
 
Henning said:
Thing the machines never give me is a crisp crust.
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A crisp crust comes from humidity early in the baking cycle, bread machines do not do ths and neither can bread baked in a pan. If you want crisp crust, bake your loaf on a stone (no pan). When you put it down, cover it with a large metal bowl for 20 minutes. The bowl traps moisture and raises the humidity around the loaf, giving a hard, crispy crust. Then carefully remove the bowl with a spatula and complete the baking.

Thanks to Lionel Vatinet for that tip.
 
bflynn said:
A crisp crust comes from humidity early in the baking cycle, bread machines do not do ths and neither can bread baked in a pan. If you want crisp crust, bake your loaf on a stone (no pan). When you put it down, cover it with a large metal bowl for 20 minutes. The bowl traps moisture and raises the humidity around the loaf, giving a hard, crispy crust. Then carefully remove the bowl with a spatula and complete the baking.

Thanks to Lionel Vatinet for that tip.
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I do bake it on a straight on a stone, that's an interesting thing with the bowl, I guess I could figure a replacement for baguettes, I wonder if foil would work?
 
bflynn said:
A crisp crust comes from humidity early in the baking cycle, bread machines do not do ths and neither can bread baked in a pan. If you want crisp crust, bake your loaf on a stone (no pan). When you put it down, cover it with a large metal bowl for 20 minutes. The bowl traps moisture and raises the humidity around the loaf, giving a hard, crispy crust. Then carefully remove the bowl with a spatula and complete the baking.

Thanks to Lionel Vatinet for that tip.
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Similarly, the method in that book I have calls for an empty broiler or similar pan to go in the oven during the baking stone pre-heat. Once you put the bread on the stone to bake, you pour a cup of water in the hot broiler pan, then close the oven door quickly to trap the steam for early-cycle moisture.

Incidentally, my cast iron pizza pan works well as a baking stone. Cast iron pans do well in a pinch, too.
 
Henning said:
I do bake it on a straight on a stone, that's an interesting thing with the bowl, I guess I could figure a replacement for baguettes, I wonder if foil would work?
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Foil might work if you can get it basically air tight. The bowl is recommended because it seals almost air tight with the stone so the moisture being baked off e loaf doesn't go anywhere. If you can't get the foil sealed, the steam will escape.

Doesn't have to be a bowl. A deep hotel pan will work too if you have a square stone. Restaurant supply store again for both.
 
asechrest said:
Similarly, the method in that book I have calls for an empty broiler or similar pan to go in the oven during the baking stone pre-heat. Once you put the bread on the stone to bake, you pour a cup of water in the hot broiler pan, then close the oven door quickly to trap the steam for early-cycle moisture.
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Yup. The super duper multiple thousand dollar bread ovens do almost exactly that same thing, but in a perfectly controlled cycle. I use a bowl. ;).
 
bflynn said:
Foil might work if you can get it basically air tight. The bowl is recommended because it seals almost air tight with the stone so the moisture being baked off e loaf doesn't go anywhere. If you can't get the foil sealed, the steam will escape.

Doesn't have to be a bowl. A deep hotel pan will work too if you have a square stone. Restaurant supply store again for both.
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Yeah, I was thinking about these 3x3x18 baking pans I saw.
 
bflynn said:
Yup. The super duper multiple thousand dollar bread ovens do almost exactly that same thing, but in a perfectly controlled cycle. I use a bowl. ;).
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Geez..... I better google bread machines... I don't remember paying alot for my Trillium Breadman years ago..:dunno::confused:
 
Norman said:
Almost 20,000 posts in five years and you're trying to convince us you work? :D
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AW...Come on,....

He is a tenured professor.... HE doesn't need / have to work,,, just run out the clock till retirement...:rofl:.....:D...
 
N801BH said:
AW...Come on,....

He is a tenured professor.... HE doesn't need / have to work,,, just run out the clock till retirement...:rofl:.....:D...
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Oh c'mon. Cut him some slack. At least he teaches something useful.

Rich
 
Unless you employ a staff of keebler elves, y'all are forgetting the best feature of a bead machine: Throw the ingredients in the night before, wake up to fresh bread in the morning!
 
Brad Z said:
Unless you employ a staff of keebler elves, y'all are forgetting the best feature of a bead machine: Throw the ingredients in the night before, wake up to fresh bread in the morning!
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Yes, but there's also a certain almost spiritual element to baking bread, especially yeast breads. It's an ancient process that allows for great creativity, but only within the boundaries of laws of biology, chemistry, and physics that weren't understood in ancient times. And yet the process hasn't changed all that much over the millennia.

I severely restricted my bread intake went I went low-carb, but I still look for opportunities to bake bread. It's easier for me to stop eating it than to stop baking it.

Rich
 
Henning said:
Thing the machines never give me is a crisp crust.
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Mine can, it has crust settings.

The way to get a good crust from a stone:

Set a oven proof pan in the oven when commencing preheat. When putting in the bread add at least 1 quart boiling water to the pan, put in the bread and quickly close the oven.

There are also finishes you can put on the outside of the loaf to change the crust texture. I've used an egg wash to good effect, and have been told oil will do likewise.

I must not be as picky about these things as Henning. I use what limited time I have to very, very good effect. I don't know what a couple cups of flour and some yeast cost, but not as much as a loaf of store-bough bread that isn't half as good.

Also, almost all my loaves are sourdough. Even though my sourdough starter sucks (and a POA member may give me something better) they're still better than anything you can buy, since commercial bakeries mostly use vinegar to sour loaves, while I use microorganisms. Not only does lactic acid give a much gentler sour, but the lactobacilli add all sorts of yummy flavor.
 
Bread taking time? Do you all stand there and supervise the yeast or something? :lol: I help out by making the bread fairly frequently, I think I have maybe 30 actual minutes of involvement, maybe 45.
 
N801BH said:
Geez..... I better google bread machines... I don't remember paying alot for my Trillium Breadman years ago..:dunno::confused:
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Those are the professional ovens, made especially for baking bread. They probably sell fewer of them a year than Citations.

I don't see baking bread to be a large enough of a chore to warrant a special machine for it. 90% of them making it is waiting.
 
bflynn said:
Those are the professional ovens, made especially for baking bread. They probably sell fewer of them a year than Citations.

I don't see baking bread to be a large enough of a chore to warrant a special machine for it. 90% of them making it is waiting.
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Exactly, grab 5 things, mix, cover, set aside. Work dough briefly, set aside. Separate and shape for loaves and stick in oven.:dunno:
 
Norman said:
What winds your spring in the morning? :dunno:
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Nothing, really. I'm not addicted to caffeine, and need none to wake up. That said, I understand why lots of folks do. I do drink an energy drink on the weekends, just to get the motivation to do all the housework.

Henning said:
Bread taking time? Do you all stand there and supervise the yeast or something? :lol: I help out by making the bread fairly frequently, I think I have maybe 30 actual minutes of involvement, maybe 45.
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Bread has to go through cycles of rest and kneading. You start by mixing, but have to rest to allow the flour to hydrate. You then knead some more, but have to do a couple cycles of knead and rise. You then have an extensive rise, at the end of which you knead again. It takes time to do it properly.

It's no big deal if you're home, and you're right, if you are home it doesn't necessarily impact your day (if you don't have lots of other pressing duties).

On the other hand, I just set up the bread machine and off it goes. I actually have to wait until it gets going, sourdoughs are a bit tricky with moisture and the whole wheat setting allows some warm up time to give the yeast more time. Whole grains rise poorly, so the machine gives the yeast all the advantages it can. Once it gets going I get to adjust liquid, but then I can ignore it and I get yummy bread. Far, far, far better than anything you can buy, and way healthier as well, since I use a preponderance of whole grains. Could I do better making it by hand? Almost certainly, but what the machine does is so far above the bar that it really isn't a big worry.
 
asechrest said:
Similarly, the method in that book I have calls for an empty broiler or similar pan to go in the oven during the baking stone pre-heat. Once you put the bread on the stone to bake, you pour a cup of water in the hot broiler pan, then close the oven door quickly to trap the steam for early-cycle moisture.

Incidentally, my cast iron pizza pan works well as a baking stone. Cast iron pans do well in a pinch, too.
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The best thing by far I found is a Dutch oven, especially when used with wetter doughs. Preheat, bake for 30 minutes with the lid on, then another 15-30 minutes with it off (depending on loaf size). Makes for a beautiful, hard crust.

Christmas bread.JPG
 
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