Bravo aispace bust.

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Joe hart

Filing Flight Plan
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Joehart96
Hi, what happen if someone bust a corner and exceeds by 500 ft a floor of bravo airspace and imediatly after 1 minute descends?. And the pilot is on the frecuency of a golf airport heading towards a delta controlled airspace, both within bravo 30 nm veil?. Coms where not stablished with the bravo tower. Does the bravo tower has a way of knowing the airplane?
 
Why probably nothing?. Does that represent problems, is anyone able to know this? . This happend to a student pilot at dfw.
 
Joe hart said:
Hi, what happen if someone bust a corner and exceeds by 500 ft a floor of bravo airspace and imediatly after 1 minute descends?. And the pilot is on the frecuency of a golf airport heading towards a delta controlled airspace, both within bravo 30 nm veil?. Coms where not stablished with the bravo tower. Does the bravo tower has a way of knowing the airplane?
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If they really want to pursue it they can follow the radar to the field they land at and call the tower or fbo and get the tail#
 
And how possible is it? Or how many days it delays for atc to contact the fbo or delta tower.

After getting out of bravo (coms with bravo where not stablished)the student remained on a ground airport frecuency and then changed to delta tower frequency, he received the clearance to land. He was not told anything by delta tower about calling a number or so.
 
Joe hart said:
And how possible is it? Or how many days it delays for atc to contact the fbo or delta tower.

After getting out of bravo (coms with bravo where not stablished)the student remained on a ground airport frecuency and then changed to delta tower frequency, he received the clearance to land. He was not told anything by delta tower about calling a number or so.
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If it didn't mess up their Separation or anything they probably won't do anything
 
File an ASARS REPORT FOR CHEAP INSURANCE. ASARS ????? Did I get that correct ?, someone please correct me if I am wrong but you get the idea.
 
I busted bravo twice when a student and I recall being paranoid that I was going to get a letter or something.
Once I was in for maybe 10 seconds(climbed into it by mistake) The other time, I flew into it and caught after about 30 seconds.
Dove down quickly.

I kept waiting for something terrible to happen.
My CFI said most likely they saw a target squawking 1200 that got in and clearly realized his mistake and got out.
He said now if you flew through it for 5 minutes, you probably would have been contacted once you landed.

I trained under the DFW bravo and both instances were when I was just past solo and not yet able to focus on everything I needed to focus on very well.

The 2nd time, I did fill out an ASRS report just for the heck of it.

I know a few people that have similar "whoops" stories in the DFW Bravo area and nobody has ever been pursued for the bust that I am aware.
Fill out the report if you want but don't stress until you have a reason to. Er I mean "this hypothetical student"


Also....

Stay out of the Bravo ;)
Or get on flight following so they know where you are and even let you in it.
 
Yeah I guess,it was at one corner of dfw bravo, I think that if it had messed up with the separation at the arrival to delta tower the student should have received from Tower a phone # to call right?
 
Hahaha good story six papa charlie
 
But make no mistake... It's possible they tagged you.

File a NASA report.
 
Joe hart said:
Yeah I guess,it was at one corner of dfw bravo, I think that if it had messed up with the separation at the arrival to delta tower the student should have received from Tower a phone # to call right?
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There are times that a supervisor reviews tapes afterwards, and the pilot receives a certified letter weeks later. Not super common, but it does happen.
 
Just don't worry about it.
Try and figure out how it happened.
Were you distracted, task saturated?
Rather than worry, try and let this little scare be a teachable moment so you don't do it in the future.

Again, having been in "your" shoes, I understand the feeling but being on this side of it, I'd be surprised if anything comes of it or if anyone even noticed.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
Just don't worry about it.
Try and figure out how it happened.
Were you distracted, task saturated?
Rather than worry, try and let this little scare be a teachable moment so you don't do it in the future.

Again, having been in "your" shoes, I understand the feeling but being on this side of it, I'd be surprised if anything comes of it or if anyone even noticed.
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I wouldn't lose sleep over it, but I would file the NASA/ASRS report without question.
 
@Kritchlow What would they do?
I am guessing a phone call where they ask what happened and they say "What are you going to do in the future to make sure it doesn't happen"
and he gets a lecture?

They will not fine you. So don't worry about that.
I can't imagine they would pull a student pilot cert.

Gotta just be a phone call right?
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
@Kritchlow What would they do?
I am guessing a phone call where they ask what happened and they say "What are you going to do in the future to make sure it doesn't happen"
and he gets a lecture?

They will not fine you. So don't worry about that.
I can't imagine they would pull a student pilot cert.

Gotta just be a phone call right?
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But the NASA report is free insurance. It just can't hurt to do it. Costs nothing....
 
Kritchlow said:
But the NASA report is free insurance. It just can't hurt to do it. Costs nothing....
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I agree. I would def. fill out the report.
I was just asking your opinion on if they did track him down, what action do you think they would take?
 
Yeah definetly something to analyse and learn from.
About the NASA is it necesary? Or is it better just to wait? How do you know if you get tagged?
 
Joe hart said:
Yeah definetly something to analyse and learn from.
About the NASA is it necesary? Or is it better just to wait? How do you know if you get tagged?
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Fill it out.
It is somewhat of a get out of jail free card (someone will challenge me on that)
Basically it is a form that you fill out noting an issue w/ your flight.

FAA uses them to try and make flying safer or something.
The common thinking is if you fill it out before you are notified about an infraction, you are off the hook.

I have heard commercial pilots fill them out all the time just in case.
I think you can only use it once or twice as a get out of jail free card but I would do it.
 
Since the report is insurance against certificate action, I'm not sure how that could apply to a student who is not rated yet.
 
No bad can come from filling it out
Here is the link:
http://asrs.arc.nasa.gov/report/caveat.html?formType=general


"Do not report aircraft accidents and criminal activities on this form.
Accidents and criminal activities are not included in the ASRS program and should not be submitted to NASA.
All identities contained in this report will be removed to assure complete reporter anonymity."
 
Everskyward said:
Since the report is insurance against certificate action, I'm not sure how that could apply to a student who is not rated yet.
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But he still has a certificate... "Student" is indeed a grade of certificate.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
I agree. I would def. fill out the report.
I was just asking your opinion on if they did track him down, what action do you think they would take?
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Probably nothing, but "student" is still a grade of certificate. I imagine they could put a warning or violation on his record if they wanted to, but I admit that would be over the top for a student.
 
If tower did not give him a number to call upon landing...pretty much nothing.

Tower wouldn't probably notice on an outer ring, it would be TRACON managing that space

Just did a TRACON tour...apparently pilots bust airspace ALL the time...even Bravo. IF they catch it, they can tag and track the plane to the destination then call tower of an FBO to get the tail number...most of the time they do not care enough to go through the effort unless it caused a problem or they are bored...neither of which are usually the case.

Go forth and tell him to bust Bravo no more and relax. Or put the fear of God in him and let him think they WILL find him one day and he is a wanted man!
 
Fill out the ASRS form. It costs nothing and you can fill out as many as you want. The hitch is that for immunity purposes, you can't use its immunity feature again for 2 or 3 years after your previous immunity claim. Bear in mind though, that even it you do get the: "get out of jail free" provision you will still have a violation on your record. You just will not have any certificate action taken against you.
 
Get ADS-B out and you won't have to wonder. They will always know who you are.
 
Bobcat1 said:
Fill out the ASRS form. It costs nothing and you can fill out as many as you want. The hitch is that for immunity purposes, you can't use its immunity feature again for 2 or 3 years after your previous immunity claim. Bear in mind though, that even it you do get the: "get out of jail free" provision you will still have a violation on your record. You just will not have any certificate action taken against you.
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It's 5 years, but that's ONLY if they use it to waive the suspension. If you just file it and there is no FAA action, you are good to go the very next day with another ASRS with protections.
 
Falcon Field in Arizona is super tricky because on the west end of the runway there is this tiny little section that drops down to 3400 I believe...almost went into that one time...probably would have been shot down by F16s :D just kidding
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
@Kritchlow What would they do?
I am guessing a phone call where they ask what happened and they say "What are you going to do in the future to make sure it doesn't happen"
and he gets a lecture?

They will not fine you. So don't worry about that.
I can't imagine they would pull a student pilot cert.

Gotta just be a phone call right?
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On the other hand, here's my experience of busting the Orlando International Bravo: https://www.pilotsofamerica.com/com...or-the-lack-there-of-and-airspace-long.39513/

Although to be fair, I flew around in the space for a while and didn't realize I had even busted it until they radioed for me to copy a number...

A quick in, "Oh crap!" and correction is much less likely to get anyone's attention.

John
 
Bobcat1 said:
Bear in mind though, that even it you do get the: "get out of jail free" provision you will still have a violation on your record. You just will not have any certificate action taken against you.
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So a violation on record. And why is that going to be a problem?

I did have one violation that resulted in a suspended certificate for 10 days. It has now been purged. I used to mention that on interviews and the worst it cost me was, "What, just one?"

And it was a paperwork problem, not a flight problem.

ASRS, known as a nasa report, is your best friend.
 
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Zeldman said:
So a violation on record. And why is that going to be a problem?

I did have one violation that resulted in a suspended certificate for 10 days. It has now been purged. I used to mention that on interviews and the worst it cost me was, "What, just one?"

And it was a paperwork problem, not a flight problem.

ASRS, known as a nasa report, is you best friend.
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After I got hired I told my hiring manager that I busted my private first time around. I was digging through some FAA reg and found that's a mandatory reporting requirement to an employer. She didn't care in the least. If it doesn't come back from the PRIA check, they don't care.
 
Zeldman said:
So a violation on record. And why is that going to be a problem?

I did have one violation that resulted in a suspended certificate for 10 days. It has now been purged. I used to mention that on interviews and the worst it cost me was, "What, just one?"

And it was a paperwork problem, not a flight problem.

ASRS, known as a nasa report, is your best friend.
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I believe they stopped purging violations around 2005..?? As you know, it used to stay on your record for five years.
 
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