Bonanza

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DaytonaLynn

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So as someone who is fairly new to the different planes I have a question about the bonanza.

Since it does not have a verticle stabalizer, when you press the rudder peddles, what happens? What moves to give a coordinated turn?

Just wondering
 
DaytonaLynn said:
So as someone who is fairly new to the different planes I have a question about the bonanza.

Since it does not have a verticle stabalizer, when you press the rudder peddles, what happens? What moves to give a coordinated turn?

Just wondering
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If you watch it when it happens, it's simple enough to understand (Though the cables are not). This is going to be a horrible explanation but.... The "Elevator things on the V" work like ailerons do (i.e. one goes up and one goes down) when performing "yaw" functions. They go up and down together when doing pitch functions.... and some combination of both if you have both inputs in.
 
Also, not all Bonanzas are V-tails. I have quite a few hours in A36's and Debs, but have yet to fly a V-tail.
 
The mechanics of this involve a mechanical mixer assembly which takes the inputs from the rudder and aileron cables and translates them into ruddervator output commands. Next time you're around a maintenance facility where they're working on a 35 Bonanza, ask to see it.
 
I was wondering this a while ago. This picture (though not of a Bonanza mixer) really helped me see what goes on.


attachment.php
 
Skylane81E said:
So the conventional tails Dutch roll too?:lol:
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Neither suffer from(uncommanded) Dutch roll. The V-tail, and to a lesser extent the Bonanza's have a damped yaw moment in moderate turbulence. Basically, the ball will wiggle back and forth in the T&B indicator in choppy weather. It happens on all Bonanza's but is more noticeable in the V-tail. Various skegs have been tried, to little success.
 
Oh it more than wiggled,

The only three planes that ever did it to me was a V35, a Skipper and a Seneca.

In the Bo's deffence it was in need of a rig. I'd like to fly a well rigged one some day to see what the fuss is about because the one I was in was far from impressive, in fact to be honest it flew like crap. I won't let that paticular plane sour me on the breed however.
 
Well, to start with, a Dutch roll in the conventional meaning is a commanded ball-centered roll from left to right repeatedly. Always coordinated. The Bonanza is a yaw moment, but I've heard to it referred to as Dutch roll before as well.

What you're talking about is the yaw moment in moderate turbulence. Yeah - I know many Bo pilots run the planes firewalled most of the time. In my old bird, rough air penetration speed is 130MPH MAX. I follow that, and it's not bad at all. Of course, if you're in mod turb and cruising along at 160-175MPH, it's gonna be bad.

Out of rig is common on Bonanzas for a few reasons. First, when they left the factory they were tight, and set up on a very precise jig. Small faults can cause large problems in the Bonanza airframe. Second, the re-rigging of them is done by crusty old codgers who will 'trail a flap' a little bit to correct a rig problem. This is the worst thing you could do, as it slows you down, and it makes the trim needed even worse for level flight. Last, the gear doors come in for a fair amount of grief, and since the gears are about 12' apart, they can cause serious rig issues in yaw and roll so far off centerline.

A good rig job is prolly three days work on an old Bo, and many of them really need it.
 
Thanks, I could imagine how it worked, but wanted to get a more definitive answer than a guess?
So if I understand correct a Mooney and Bonanza are similar in their speeds cost of operation. I really like them both for the same reason, the tail or lack there of.
 
The Mooney will be a little cheaper in gas at the same speed as the Bonanza. The Bonanza may have slightly lower mx costs but it is highly variable. They are competitive planes, and you would do well in either. I prefer the Bonanza for the strength and a bit roomier and better windows, but I could be happy with a nice Mooney too.
 
Mooney or Bonanza hmmmm. Neither! They are both low wings which aren't good for bad knees, amputations etc.

If none of that applies then disregard my comment.
 
DaytonaLynn said:
Thanks, I could imagine how it worked, but wanted to get a more definitive answer than a guess?
So if I understand correct a Mooney and Bonanza are similar in their speeds cost of operation. I really like them both for the same reason, the tail or lack there of.
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There are Mooneys which are comparable to Bonanzas, but not all of them, and most definitely not the 200 HP versions when looking at the most common v-tail Bonanza models. Yes, they may be as fast, but you don't get the same load-hauling capability with 200HP that you get with 285HP. Likewise, early Bonanzas with 185-225 HP are no match for the later big-engine Mooneys with up to 310 HP from the factory.

Also, understand that Al Mooney's key to speed was drag reduction in the form of reduced frontal area. The result is a cabin which cannot be compared favorably to the BE35-series in room and comfort.

Make sure you understand which are the apples and which are the oranges when examining these choices.
 
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Ron Levy said:
Make sure you understand which are the apples and which are the oranges when examining these choices.
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Instead of apples and oranges, wouldn't Bananas and Mango's be a better choice of fruit for the comparison? B)
 
Ron Levy said:
There are Mooneys which are comparable to Bonanzas, but not all of them, and most definitely not the 200 HP versions when looking at the most common v-tail Bonanza models. Yes, they may be as fast, but you don't get the same load-hauling capability with 200HP that you get with 285HP. Likewise, early Bonanzas with 185-225 HP are no match for the later big-engine Mooneys with up to 310 HP from the factory.

Also, understand that Al Mooney's key to speed was drag reduction in the form of reduced frontal area. The result is a cabin which cannot be compared favorably to the BE35-series in room and comfort.

Make sure you understand which are the apples and which are the oranges when examining these choices.
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Yeah seriously. I can't even weild a shot glass in a Mooney. But in a Bonanza, I can slam a whole pitcher!
 
I don't find the Mooney to be a tight fit but I'm not that big. The issue I have with the Mooney is a feeling of claustrophobia. The seats are low, the window is narrow, the windscreen is scrunched, the interior panel is fairly high. There's room to sit and drive the plane, but the feeling is kind of tight.

The opposite is the Grumman singles. Big windows, high seating position, fairly low panel, etc. They aren't that big, but they feel bigger inside. The Bonanza is like that. Big wrap up windows, big windscreen, smaller panel, more upright seating. It's pretty close in volume, but the feeling is more spacious. Sounds funny, but try them and you'll see.
 
docmirror said:
The Bonanza is like that. Big wrap up windows, big windscreen, smaller panel, more upright seating. It's pretty close in volume, but the feeling is more spacious. Sounds funny, but try them and you'll see.
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I have a Cherokee, which is stated to have a 40" wide cabin.
A 33/35 Bonanza is stated to have a 42" wide cabin.

Can it be true that a Bo is only two inches wider than a Cherokee? It sure didn't feel like that when I flew right seat in one.
 
It sounds right to me. If you look at the Bo from straight on, they are fairly narrow, but they seem bigger. It's one of those optical delusions. lol
 
docmirror said:
It sounds right to me. If you look at the Bo from straight on, they are fairly narrow, but they seem bigger. It's one of those optical delusions. lol
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where they are really roomier is back seat footroom.
 
PilotAlan said:
I have a Cherokee, which is stated to have a 40" wide cabin.
A 33/35 Bonanza is stated to have a 42" wide cabin.

Can it be true that a Bo is only two inches wider than a Cherokee? It sure didn't feel like that when I flew right seat in one.
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I sold a Cherokee and bought a Bonanza, it is the best utilized 2 inches in aviation. It does make a difference. My wife and I sat shoulder to shoulder in the cherokee, we don't in the Bo. Not being pressed against your PAX goes a long way towards feeling roomy.
 
bartmc said:
I sold a Cherokee and bought a Bonanza, it is the best utilized 2 inches in aviation. It does make a difference. My wife and I sat shoulder to shoulder in the cherokee, we don't in the Bo. Not being pressed against your PAX goes a long way towards feeling roomy.
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Is there a difference in cabin layout? I'm sure they measure at the widest point, but does the window curve out and give your left elbow some room, or what?
 
PilotAlan said:
Is there a difference in cabin layout? I'm sure they measure at the widest point, but does the window curve out and give your left elbow some room, or what?
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Yeah, there's a huge difference in layout. The Bonanza is very "open" feeling and you "sit up" more. Kinda feels like you're driving a chevy truck vs a honda civic.

As far as elbow room, I dunno, there's not an over abundance of left elbow room in the Bo. That's one of my complaints about it. Full aft elevator can get your elbow into an odd position.
 
docmirror said:
The opposite is the Grumman singles. Big windows, high seating position, fairly low panel, etc. They aren't that big, but they feel bigger inside. The Bonanza is like that. Big wrap up windows, big windscreen, smaller panel, more upright seating. It's pretty close in volume, but the feeling is more spacious. Sounds funny, but try them and you'll see.
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We had a Grumman Cheetah and needed to move up to something with more speed and range. My wife was accustomed to the open feeling of the Grumman. The only high-performance airplane in our price range that came close to it was the Bonanza -- by comparison, all others in the class seemed like they had tank slits for windows. :nono:
 
Pilawt said:
We had a Grumman Cheetah and needed to move up to something with more speed and range. My wife was accustomed to the open feeling of the Grumman. The only high-performance airplane in our price range that came close to it was the Bonanza -- by comparison, all others in the class seemed like they had tank slits for windows. :nono:
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Yup, same here. My wife likes a lot of visibility. The Grumman and the Bo have similar cabins with the Bo having a bit higher glare shield. The Mooney problem is lack of cabin space it's just a poor layout. They do get good mileage though.
 
The difference between n and u shaped cabins will always be more noticeable to taller and/or long-trunk specimens. If your headbone only clears the ceiling when you're near the middle of the arc, you ain't gonna be having much fun flying that model.

I'd be a bigger fan of the Bo cabin if the seat cushion could be dropped about 2"
 
wabower said:
The difference between n and u shaped cabins will always be more noticeable to taller and/or long-trunk specimens. If your headbone only clears the ceiling when you're near the middle of the arc, you ain't gonna be having much fun flying that model.

I'd be a bigger fan of the Bo cabin if the seat cushion could be dropped about 2"
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Used to be a Bo on the field for rent, nice one, but the seats when redone had extra padding out in, owner apparently was short or something. I was landing in serious wind at soon to be gone Lake Murray, and the yoke kept running into my leg. Not terribly amusing at the time.

I had to apply the verbal landing fixer (a single-syllable word, rhymes with "pit"). All was well.
 
wabower said:
The difference between n and u shaped cabins will always be more noticeable to taller and/or long-trunk specimens. If your headbone only clears the ceiling when you're near the middle of the arc, you ain't gonna be having much fun flying that model.

I'd be a bigger fan of the Bo cabin if the seat cushion could be dropped about 2"
Click to expand...

Yep, no "perfect" planes (well other than a nice 80s vintage 210 maybe:wink2: )
 
SCCutler said:
Used to be a Bo on the field for rent, nice one, but the seats when redone had extra padding out in, owner apparently was short or something. I was landing in serious wind at soon to be gone Lake Murray, and the yoke kept running into my leg. Not terribly amusing at the time.

I had to apply the verbal landing fixer (a single-syllable word, rhymes with "pit"). All was well.
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You mean Lake Murray, OK? Is it closing??? Another Oklahoma fly-in golf spot bites the dust.
 
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SCCutler said:
The same. They want more parking and easier entrance for the golf course, so the airport is to be sacrificed.
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Yeah, I just found a short article about it. That's a pretty weak excuse. Use the runway for parking??? BS!!!

I fear we will lose Arrowhead and Fountainhead State Parks at Lake Eufaula and Lake Texoma State Park runways too in the future. All of those offer fly-in golf, and access to the lakes and parks within walking distance of the strips. They have already closed the Lodges at all three. I betcha when the strips fall into disrepair, they will bust out the big X.


OP, pardon the brief change in subject. Didn't mean to hijack. Just got caught off gaurd by news of another airport closing.
Proceed with the Bonanza discussion :)
 
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I think the R model might have come close, but the production run was very short. But it would be fun to incorporate the best features of all of them into a single design. 210 cockpit roominess, visibility and shade, Bo cowl design and bag doors, Toga aft cabin dimensions, etc.

Skylane81E said:
Yep, no "perfect" planes (well other than a nice 80s vintage 210 maybe:wink2: )
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wabower said:
I think the R model might have come close, but the production run was very short. But it would be fun to incorporate the best features of all of them into a single design. 210 cockpit roominess, visibility and shade, Bo cowl design and bag doors, Toga aft cabin dimensions, etc.
Click to expand...


R's sure are pricey...
 
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