Birmingham 6 Departure

mulligan

mulligan

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Mulligan
I have been flying out of KBHM for 2 years now and have never been given a departure procedure. The other day I got the shortest clearance I have ever gotten. It kind of caught me off guard but I actually liked how short and simple it was.

The clearance was basically verbatim -> Cleared to KBTR Direct via Birmingham 6, Squawk 71XX. That was it. Short and simple. So I went to program the G1000 and selected the Departure which asked me for a transition. Well I wasn't given a transition, I was just given Birmingham 6 which would mean Runway Heading, then vectors so I forgo the Departure in the G1000 and look up the Departure Procedure. Nothing special there, just climb mins and max altitude of 4,000. So basically I can fly any altitude between 1,800 and 4,000? That is the only part I was unclear on. The Departure Frequency was readily available on the procedure and it sure made read=back and instructions easier. I wish I got more DP's so I could get more experience and be more comfortable with them.
 
Climb all the way to 4000'. If they wanted a different altitude, they would have made that part of the clearance.

EDIT: also, it's probably good practice to think about the specific headings as depicted on the DP, as opposed to just assuming they're runway heading. I mean, you're right in this case and in many (most?) cases this is true, and in many places tower will assign a heading regardless, but it'll help keep you out of trouble in the off chance they're different and you miss it.
 
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Don't know about the 1,800 ft part. I don't see that as a published altitude. Since the DP contains a top altitude of 4,000 ft, you go to that after the initial climb to get above terrain, then expect a vector on course. Most likely, you'll never see 4,000 anyway unless that's what you filed for. Unless they're extremely busy, ATC should give you higher soon after departure.
 
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mulligan said:
Even if runway heading is 060? So 4,000 not 3,000?
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It's probably more accurate to say to *plan* to climb to 4000' until you're told otherwise, which as Velocity said - you probably will be. If it gets busy and you can't get a word in to departure, they'll expect you to level there.

What was your filed altitude?
 
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kayoh190 said:
It's probably more accurate to say to *plan* to climb to 4000' until you're told otherwise, which as Velocity said - you probably will be. If it gets busy and you can't get a word in to departure, they'll expect you to level there.

What was your filed altitude?
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Was 9,000 - all the responses have been informative and I'm pretty sure I get it now. Was really a non-event as I climbed to about 2,000 and got vectors and expect higher in s few so I just kept climbing to 4,000 and got higher as I hit 3,500.

Thanks for the replies all!!
 
BHM6

"TAKEOFF RWY 6: Climb heading 058° to 1500, thence...."
". . . . Expect vectors to filed route. Maintain 4000 or assigned lower altitude. Expect clearance to filed altitude 10 minutes after departure."
 

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mulligan said:
Was 9,000 - all the responses have been informative and I'm pretty sure I get it now. Was really a non-event as I climbed to about 2,000 and got vectors and expect higher in s few so I just kept climbing to 4,000 and got higher as I hit 3,500.

Thanks for the replies all!!
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I did it off 18 a few years back. Just like you, got vectors once out of the initial altitude (2,300) and got my filed (7,000) not long after that.
 
I don't know why it is confusing. The procedure gives a heading (not coincidentally runway heading) to an altitude and then tells you to maintain 4000 (or assigned lower). There's not really a "transition" here. Just different instructions for the differing runways. The controllers phraseology was correct.

I always find these RV SIDS were kind of strange at IAD because it was extremely rare they didn't repeat a significant part of what was in the SID as the departure clearance. At IAD, "Navion 5327K cleared to Norfolk via Capitol Eight--Haney Squawk 5401" was all that was required. I think I only once got it phrased that way. They sometimes would insert "Radar Vectors" or "As Filed" or departure frequencies in there which were entirely redundant.

My sleeply little KHKY has taken to issuing HICKORY THREE departures. That one caught me by surprise when it was issued the first time, but it was easy enough to look up.
 
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flyingron said:
My sleeply little KHKY has taken to issuing HICKORY THREE departures. That one caught me by surprise when it was issued the first time, but it was easy enough to look up.
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Here I thought I was at a sleepy little airport--there's usually no one on the radio until above 1000 feet or so, much less anyone to provide clearances or issue departures . . . Just sayin, ya know . . .

It's kind of cool, but also a little lonely, being the only functional plane on the field . . .
 
I've been flying out of KBHM for 7 years now and have never gotten a DP. They are training some new controllers. I wonder how much that contributed.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
I got that once coming out of MSP. I was expecting either vectors, direct, or the Rochester departure. Instead I was given the Minneapolis departure, which after scrambling to get the plate...is basically radar vectors. Why can't they just say vectors?
 
Because if they do it right they can replace:

"Radar Vectors HANEY then as filed. Climb and Maintain 3000 expect 12000 10 MINUTES AFTER DEPARTURE, DEPARTURE FREQUENCY 126.1"

with

CAPITAL EIGHT HANEY
 
mulligan said:
Even if runway heading is 060? So 4,000 not 3,000?
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Huh? What does the heading have to do with It? (I think I know what you are thinking but, if so, read the reg before responding.)
 
flyingron said:
I don't know why it is confusing. The procedure gives a heading (not coincidentally runway heading) to an altitude and then tells you to maintain 4000 (or assigned lower). There's not really a "transition" here. Just different instructions for the differing runways. The controllers phraseology was correct.

I always find these RV SIDS were kind of strange at IAD because it was extremely rare they didn't repeat a significant part of what was in the SID as the departure clearance. At IAD, "Navion 5327K cleared to Norfolk via Capitol Eight--Haney Squawk 5401" was all that was required. I think I only once got it phrased that way. They sometimes would insert "Radar Vectors" or "As Filed" or departure frequencies in there which were entirely redundant.

My sleeply little KHKY has taken to issuing HICKORY THREE departures. That one caught me by surprise when it was issued the first time, but it was easy enough to look up.
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KHKY was one of the airports I flew to to help get familiar with the area after moving to NC. I was a bit surprised to be what is titled as a charted ODP that was a radar one.

I suppose it might be more related to the proximity of regular routes in out of Charlotte than to the terrain. All roads north and east seem to converge at Barrett's Mountain. If it's going to be given all the time, might as well give it a name.
 
We have the Chattanooga Five departure here, rarely assigned, but same thing. Runway heading, climb maintain 5000 or assigned lower altitude then vectors to join assigned route. Expect clearance to filed altitude ten minutes after departure.
 
Bill Jennings said:
We have the Chattanooga Five departure here, rarely assigned, but same thing. Runway heading, climb maintain 5000 or assigned lower altitude then vectors to join assigned route. Expect clearance to filed altitude ten minutes after departure.
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There are a bunch of those "radar SIDS" around.

You can add the DENVER and RALEIGH departures if you are keeping score.

Quite common, really.
 
midlifeflyer said:
You can add the DENVER and RALEIGH departures if you are keeping score.

Quite common, really.
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Right, and nice thing is , in my experience, is the number after the departure in the name is the altitude. Them FAA guys, smaht!
 
Straight out to 4000 is the obstacle part. If you can make the required climb gradient, you won't hit anything. Making even shallow turns before then can put you into obstructions.
 
Bill Jennings said:
Right, and nice thing is , in my experience, is the number after the departure in the name is the altitude. Them FAA guys, smaht!
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The number is the version number. The next time there is a change to the Chattanooga Five, it will be the Chattanooga Six.

The earliest DENVER DP I recall is the FOUR. I'm pretty sure it didn't require a descent 2,000 feet underground :D
 
midlifeflyer said:
The number is the version number. The next time there is a change to the Chattanooga Five, it will be the Chattanooga Six.

The earliest DENVER DP I recall is the FOUR. I'm pretty sure it didn't require a descent 2,000 feet underground :D
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Learn something new everyday! Thanks!
 
Not the case in HKY's nor in any of ones I'm familiar. They're serial numbers. CAPITAL has gone from FOUR to NINE over the years I've been flying out of IAD.
 
I get a DP out of Concord JQF. Hugo Three has two pages, but for us slow prop guys it's all on page 2 and ends up being radar vectors. The first time I got it and saw the two pages I just asked the controller at JQF and he said that's what it boiled down to for me.

http://155.178.201.160/d-tpp/1704/09155HUGO_C.PDF
 
EppyGA said:
I get a DP out of Concord JQF. Hugo Three has two pages, but for us slow prop guys it's all on page 2 and ends up being radar vectors. The first time I got it and saw the two pages I just asked the controller at JQF and he said that's what it boiled down to for me.

http://155.178.201.160/d-tpp/1704/09155HUGO_C.PDF
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It's all from prop guys, although some are faster than others.

BTW, Two pages doesn't mean "more complicated." It just means, "not enough room on the first page for both the graphic and the text description." Compare your HUGO with the CHATTANOOGA mentioned earlier. Both are pretty much the same; one just has more to say and more fixes in the mix.
 
mulligan said:
I have been flying out of KBHM for 2 years now and have never been given a departure procedure. The other day I got the shortest clearance I have ever gotten. It kind of caught me off guard but I actually liked how short and simple it was.
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As you discovered, SIDs and STARs are good things not something to worry about.
 
Most DPs for light aircraft are just that simple, yet a lot of IR pilots act like they are afraid of them and file "No DP" in their flight. It's true that the graphical chart looks like someone vomited a bunch of VORs, but the actual procedure is usually just a sentence or two. On my long IFR cross-country training flights, I usually include an ASR approach and an airport where I know you'll get a simple DP (KJQF, Hugo 3 departure) just to show how much of a non-event these are.
 
And just because you put "No SID" in the remarks doesn't mean they won't give it to you. They'll just read you the textual description!
 
We are filed for these departures and thus get them all the time in the airlines. Make sure to always read the textual portion for any details on speeds headings altitudes etc as Let'sGoFlying mentioned above, and you always go to the top altitude unless otherwise assigned while meeting any altitude gates on the way or other restrictions on the way. Also bear in mind you can load the departure without a transition, it will just end at an earlier point, so if none of those VOR's were your transition you just don't select it and the SID will just end after the vector where you can select direct to the next point when assigned. The transition is used just to make one seem less route, after the vector where the obs should be in sus mode you can just unsuspend it or select the transition vor and it'll fit with the rest of your route

Remember like a STAR the vertical guidance is not used unless you are assigned it, you must hear the words "Climb via the sid" in your clearance. If you did not hear that they should then have given you an altitude, if they did not give you an altitude or a climb via the sid query them so you have an instruction. Like a STAR speeds on the departure are mandatory until you hear a "resume normal speed" instruction
 
JustinD said:
you must hear the words "Climb via the sid" in your clearance. If you did not hear that they should then have given you an altitude, if they did not give you an altitude or a climb via the sid query them so you have an instruction.
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The check-in from the pilot reflects this, too.

If you haven't been told to "climb via" and only been given an altitude as part of your clearance, then "passing 1,200 for 3,000", but if you were given "climb via" then you say, "passing 1,200, climbing via the SID".

Or, third option, if you were given a top altitude that is lower than what is listed in the SID, "climbing via the SID except maintain 3,000"
 
Eh? Whether I'm climbing via the sid or not, I just give my current altitude and what I'm climbing to currently. That's what the AIM says.
 
flyingron said:
Eh? Whether I'm climbing via the sid or not, I just give my current altitude and what I'm climbing to currently. That's what the AIM says.
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I'd start reading around page 5-2-9 in the AIM and reconsider that. The examples on 5-2-10 and 5-2-11 contain examples of these different clearances that have different phraseologies.

If all you are doing is reporting current altitude and "what I'm climbing to currently", that only reflects one of the three clearances (e.g. the unrestricted climb). If "climb via the SID" is part of your clearance, then you must use that phraseology when reporting in to report what you are actually doing.
 
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