Beyond Burger 2.0

Discussion in 'Hangar Talk' started by asicer, Feb 25, 2019.

  1. David Megginson

    David Megginson Pre-takeoff checklist

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    As a vegetarian for the last 22 years, let me just say that I—and many other vegetarians and vegans I know—find that sh*t disgusting. If we wanted to eat something that's trying to taste like meat, we'd eat meat; if we don't like meat, then we don't want fake meat either.

    I don't know who the market is for the "Beyond *" stuff, but it's sure not us. Maybe the loud poseurs who try to impress people at parties by saying that they're vegetarian or vegan…um, well, most of the time. (?)
     
  2. steingar

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    To each his (or her) own. I've been a vegetarian for the 32 years, and I like the stuff just fine. I'm happy to eat the occasional veggie burger. They're quick and easy to prepare and taste yummy. I doubt they're as good for me as my regular fare, but I like junk food too.

    Speaking of kale, I threw some into last night's dinner, which also had tofu, potatoes and carrots. Boy was it good.
     
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  3. David Megginson

    David Megginson Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I like veggie burgers too; I just don't want them to try to taste like meat. There are lots of great patties you can use (or even just a portobello mushroom top) that let you pile on the condiments and toppings. I also like to make burgers with grilled halloumi cheese in place of a patty.

    Before Beyond Meat and current competitors, even the patties that claimed to taste like meat didn't really, so if I was forced to eat one at a restaurant, it wasn't a big deal.
     
  4. Sac Arrow

    Sac Arrow Touchdown! Greaser!

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    But... you also eat eggs. That is your source of protein. If meat were to go extinct, I could happily survive on eggs and cole slaw.

    Well, some meat would have to remain on the planet. If the chickens went extinct, so would the eggs.

    Where are you at with fish? Fish bad, caviar okay?
     
  5. steingar

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    Every so often we do eat fish, mostly to help our pals. If we're out to dinner and a normal restaurant that's usually all you can get that's any good (I hate paying good money for something I could make far, far better). I don't think I've had caviar in 40 years.
     
  6. David Megginson

    David Megginson Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Vegetarians don't eat fish. Some people have coined a term "pescatarian" for that. Here's the whole list:

    Vegan - no animal products, period (including eggs, dairy, or honey)
    Vegetarian - no animal flesh, period, but animal products (like eggs and dairy) are OK
    Pescatarian - no animal flesh except fish
    Flexitarian - often eats like a vegan, vegetarian, or pescatarian, but sometimes eats meat other than fish
    Omnivore - whatever :)
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2020
  7. Fallsrider

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    I went whole food plant based last summer. I don't care to eat Impossible or Beyond Burger patties for the taste of meat. But I did eat one of each traveling for Christmas. It is about impossible (no pun intended) to get restaurant food like I eat on the fly to eat while driving. But I ordered an Impossible Whopper from Burger King on one leg of a trip, and Hardee's Beyond Burger on the return leg. I preferred the BK version, but both were quite good. I was impressed. I figure they are much better for me than real meat, but not as good as my usual eats. It's nice to know there are some options for traveling now.

    And yes, I try to eat some kale every day.
     
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  8. David Megginson

    David Megginson Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Protein is something you don't have to worry about unless you're severely malnourished, because it occurs in all foods. Vegans (who don't eat meat or animal products, like eggs or cheese) still get plenty of protein from plant sources, but they do have to be careful to get enough B vitamins, which aren't abundant outside of meat or animal products. Vegetarians get plenty of B vitamins naturally from non-flesh animal products like eggs and dairy, so they don't have to worry.
     
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  9. steingar

    steingar Taxi to Parking

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    Yeah, I'm trying to move more greens into our diet. That's why the kale went in with the tofu and potatoes and all. The carrots went in just because I had a few.
     
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  10. wilkersk

    wilkersk Pattern Altitude

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    I suspect theres a lot of truth in the claim, by some, that the best diet for each individual is different. My grandpa ate bacon and eggs and buttered toast every day, drank nothing but coffee and beer, smoke 2 packs a day (until his doctor and his caregiver demanded he cut back to a pack a day). And, he lived to be 90. Granted, his quality of life kinda sucked after about age 80. But, still...

    For me, healthy eating is paleo; no processed food and sadly not much more alcohol than a glass of red wine a day and the occasional beer or dram of single malt.

    --Why waste good caloric intake on fake burgers!
     
  11. David Megginson

    David Megginson Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I'm a terrible vegetarian, health-wise. I prefer greasy food like curries, pizza, pasta, Greek food, etc. etc. over anything green (or orange or yellow). I've never had much of a palate for vegetables, but I do actually like kale, FWIW. Otherwise, a very old-fashioned northern-European diet of bread and dairy (just missing the meat).
     
  12. Fallsrider

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    There is a lot of anecdotal evidence from all across the health spectrum. There are folks like your grandpa that we would think should be dead at 40, but live a really long time. There are other folks that seem to be the epitomy of good health. They exercise regularly, eat very healthy, never have smoked, don't drink at all or only moderately, etc., but die of a heart attack at a young age. Genetics certainly plays a role in that, but only to a point.

    Statistically, the odds are considerably more in your favor when eating predominately a plant based diet. This assumes no smoking, no excessive drinking, etc. There are 5 blue zones in the world (one is in Loma Linda, CA) where the overall population has the highest number of centenarians (those who live to be 100 or longer) per 100k people of anywhere in the world. These zones have very low incidence of heart disease, something that the US poulation does very poorly at. It's our number one killer. Approximately half of the 9/11 deaths occur every day in this country due to heart disease. And that's almost completely due to the standard American diet (SAD).

    The major defining difference of these blue zones is they eat a predominately plant based diet, and legumes (beans, peas, peanuts, etc.) are a major part of that diet.

    I'm going to play the odds and eat that way myself. I might die of a heart attack tomorrow, but my chances of doing so are considerably less than those who eat more meat and dairy and less plants. There are no guarantees on lifespan, but we can certainly up the odds. JMHO.
     
  13. steingar

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    The folks who eat whatever they want, smoke and booze it up and live to 100 are outliers. There aren't many of them, but we remember them well since we like the outcome. Most people with those sorts of habits infarct or stroke out before or in their eighties. The folks who eat carefully and undertake regular exercise, but still infarct or stroke out young are also outliers. Most people who eat carefully and undertake regular exercise still die in their eighties, but their quality of life is far better once they arrive at that point that those with poorer habits.
     
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  14. Fallsrider

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    Exactly. Some in the nutrition industry who promote a plant-based lifestyle call it squaring the curve. If you think of a curve on a graph moving horizontally across as we age, and starting down as our health declines until death, that curve stays flatter and drops off suddenly at the end of one's life if they have eaten a more plant-based diet, and also exercised and maintained a healthy lifestyle in other areas.
     
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  15. Scrabo

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    BB5941AC-5CD0-41AB-AEC5-AFFFF416B1EE.jpeg Ummm
     
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  16. Fallsrider

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    So you think these plant-based burgers are actually made out of human corpses, huh? LOL.

    I have not seen the movie, but what I read said the year is 2022, not 2020.
     
  17. steingar

    steingar Taxi to Parking

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    Based on the 1966 novel "make room, make room" by Harry Harrison. It was a darkly dystopian book about the consequences of overpopulation, and had no mention of government conspiracies or cannibalism.
     
  18. David Megginson

    David Megginson Pre-takeoff checklist

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    The big difference from the old days is that we're less active and eat bigger portions. Your great-grandpa who lived to 100 on fried meat, eggs, and butter ate them off a plate half the size, considered a 6 oz steak huge, and walked 6–10 miles/day instead of driving his SUV ¼ mile to buy milk.

    Eating moderately and working activity into your daily life (not just isolated as trips to the gym or morning jogs) will make the biggest difference. After that, changing the food itself will also help, to a lesser (but still important) degree.
     
  19. Sac Arrow

    Sac Arrow Touchdown! Greaser!

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  20. David Megginson

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    Bingo:
    The problem is a lot of restaurants that used to sell veggie burgers that didn't try to taste like meat (or at least, failed miserably at it) have jumped on the Beyond bandwagon, so we vegetarians have lost many of our former options. Some hold their noses and eat the Beyond patty anyway; personally, I don't have a strong-enough stomach.

    The good news is that the 2019 hype is wearing off. One major Canadian chain (Tim Hortons) has already dropped Beyond products, and others are struggling with far lower sales than expected. When the totally-unsurprising news broke that they were actually slightly worse than real meat patties for sodium, saturated fat, and calories, most of the non-vegetarians who mistakenly thought vegetarian==healthy lost interest. (Remember: most bread, potato chips, and french fries are fully plant-based too, to give just three examples).
     
  21. Fallsrider

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    The Beyond burger definitely had more of an off flavor to me. The Impossible burger was closer in taste.
     
  22. Fallsrider

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    I would be very happy for restaurants to develop their own veggie burger that tastes good AND tastes like veggies. I just need an option or two when nothing else is available. I'll take the Impossible or Beyond burgers, but I prefer a real veggie burger. I don't need them to taste like meat, I actually prefer that they don't.
     
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  23. David Megginson

    David Megginson Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Until decade or so ago, the grocery store "Presidents' Choice" chain used to sell a curried lentil-and-vegetable patty that was perfect. Black bean patties are still good where you can find them, as is my local grocery store's lentil-and-mozzarella patty (not healthy, mind you, but good). Then there's always the option of just marinating and grilling a portabello mushroom cap.
     
  24. Fallsrider

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    Yeah, there are usually a few choices in grocery stores, and a few restaurants have them, too. And cooking at home, the possibilities are pretty much limitless. I was talking more from the standpoint of eating on the fly from a fast food place when traveling. That's the only time I have tried the Beyond or Impossible burgers.

    But yes, there are lots of good options from grocery stores and making our own.
     
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  25. steingar

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    I prefer the black bean burgers I get at Costco. They go really really well with my hot salsa, and went even better with the guacamole I had last night. But it really is a nice thing that the number of options for a fast food vegetarian meal have expanded pretty dramatically. No, they aren't the healthiest things we'll eat in a week. But every meal doesn't have to be utterly healthy. Room enough for a bit of junk food now and again.

    I honestly can't figure out why all you non-vegetarians even care. I've no interest at all in what's done with meat and foul.
     
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  26. Everskyward

    Everskyward Administrator Management Council Member

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    I think some of the market for these products are people who enjoy the taste of meat, but have decided for their own reasons, that it's more ethical not to eat it.
     
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  27. David Megginson

    David Megginson Pre-takeoff checklist

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    If the ethics are about killing animals, fine (that's not why I'm vegetarian, but I respect it).

    If it's about environmental sustainability, then responsible meat has its place. Force-feeding cattle maize grown on arable land, giving them antibiotics to help them cope with food they're not supposed to eat (and makes them gassier), and pumping drinking water into their pens isn't super sustainable, but grazing cattle (or sheep, or goats) in non-arable grassland that has lots of water naturally available is the most-sustainable way to convert the sun's energy that falls on that land into human food (via the grass and shrubs that the animals eat).

    And I'm writing this as a vegetarian. :)
     
  28. Everskyward

    Everskyward Administrator Management Council Member

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    I'm only reporting what I hear from other people. I have no problem eating meat, although I don't eat a huge quantity of it.
     
  29. BrianNC

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    Basically the same for the Impossible Burger. Nothing "healthier" about it.

    [​IMG]

    Here's a better plan. :D


    [​IMG]
     
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  30. steingar

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  31. Ryanb

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    I had a cheeseburger at 11:30pm last night and I don’t regret it.
     
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  32. Fallsrider

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    That's a humorous meme, I'll give you that.

    I will respectfully disagree, however. While Beyond and Impossible burgers are at the low end of the scale as far as healthy vegan food, yes they are highly processed, they are still better for our bodies than meat. Plant protein is just better for us. And the saturated fat from plants is also better for us than from animals. There's an awful lot of science and research out there that comes to that conclusion. Even with that, I would not recommend anyone eat these plant-based burgers as a regular part of their diet.

    Up until last summer, I had eaten a regular diet of meat and dairy products, along with vegetables, my whole life. I like meat and cheese as much as the next guy. But once I started investigating the science behind it, that's when I switched over.
     
  33. Fallsrider

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    Eat enough of them, over a long enough period of time, and you might.
     
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  34. steingar

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    For most veggie burgers I would agree with you, but this latest crop nutritionally really isn't all that good. Like I've been saying, that really isn't a big deal. Everything you eat doesn't have to be good for you. But the worst veggie burger does far less damage to the environment than any comparable meat patty. It would be wonderful if cows just ran around and ate grass, but that isn't the world we live in (and I doubt any of you would like the meat you got out of such cows. There is method underlying cattle husbandly). Plant protein, no matter how processed, is still less damaging to the environment. And like I said, there are plenty of veggie burgers that are indeed good for you. We eat the less healthy ones now and again when we go out for a treat.

    For the best treat, if it really does warm up this weekend I'm going to break out my little fryer and fry up a mess of tofu. Its really, really good to eat, and can easily be thrown into just about any dish.
     
  35. Ryanb

    Ryanb Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    Most, if not all research you find about red meat is based on observational studies which are largely inaccurate. There is no data that absolutely concludes grass fed beef causes any long term health effects, like cancer, diabetes or heart complications.

    Studies that claim that are generally biased and ultimately have no way of determining if it’s actually the red meat that causes those health complications or all of the other junk people eat in their diet.
     
  36. Ryanb

    Ryanb Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    Michael, I disagree with you here. Most commercially produced beef is grain-fed, so I’ll give you that, but not all. I purchase ALL of my red meat from a local cattle rancher 45 minutes away. It’s 100% grass-fed and raised naturally. It’s certainly much better quality than any beef you purchase in the supermarkets.
     
  37. steingar

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    Ryan, this is simple nonsense. Meat is very calorie dense. if you eat it all the time you get lots and lots of calories. You need lots and lots of activity to burn off all those calories, and most people don't get it. Meat by itself doesn't cause health problems, but it's caloric load contributes to them. Excess calories causes obesity, which affects an obscene number of Americans. Obesity can contribute to all the health problems you mentioned.

    The nice thing about plant protein is it isn't as calorically dense as meat, unless you're eating one of the more recent veggie burger examples, which you shouldn't do all the time. Yes, you can get fat even if you don't eat meat, I've known some fat vegetarians. But not eating meat makes it far easier to stay svelte and healthy. I've known exactly zero fat vegans.
     
  38. Ryanb

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    That’s ridiculous. I’d bet the majority of people who turned vegetarian, haven’t cut out sugar from their diet either. If you’re talking weight loss, sugar should be what you’re cutting out, not meat.

    Weight loss is simply a measure of calories in vs. calories out, so if you can’t lose weight because you’re eating animal protein, you’re doing it wrong.

    A lean sirloin or a 6oz chicken breast is right around 300 calories - the same calorie count for the Beyond and Impossible burgers. I’d wager that you’d discover most of the meat substitutes aren’t much different in that regard.
     
  39. eman1200

    eman1200 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    My take:

    There is beyond burger and there is impossible burger. I tried both. The BB was absolutely the most horrific thing I’ve ever eaten In my entire life, even worse than mushrooms. From the time I opened the package the stench was enough to make me wanna yak. The taste was unlike any other food substance and in my opinion should be used in episodes of Fear Factor, if it ever comes back. Forget about eating worms and spiders, this sht will haunt you forever. Now the IB, I was amazed at how much that tasted like an actual burger. Don’t get me wrong, not a gourmet burger or anything like that.....think of those small pre-made patties you sometimes used when camping as a kid....nothing special but still a burger. The difference between the BB and IB was night and day. Like flying a high wing vs low wing, there is no comparison, and a clear winner. I would actually willingly order an IB now and then, you know, if I believed in all that cow burping climate change BS. My mom loves the IB. Funny thing is, she thinks that eating them all the time is going to save the planet (she didn’t eat regular burgers before).
     
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  40. steingar

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    You are correct, and anyone who doesn't moderate their intake of sugar is likely to gain weight irrespective of their protein source.

    Again you are correct, simply switching to plant protein is insufficient in and of itself. But, if you're switching to a plant based diet you're likely switching quite a few other things as well that are permissive for better health.

    Yes, but very few people eat lean sirloin or chicken breasts without adding lots and lots of calories. Please stop telling me that none of this matters. There are a lot more skinny vegetarians by per capita than there are skinny non vegetarians. If you were correct than vegans wouldn't be expected to have better health than non vegans, which they do.