Best aircraft to fly 4 up with baggage to Bermuda

Discussion in 'Pilot Training' started by Wayne877, Sep 5, 2017.

  1. Wayne877

    Wayne877 Filing Flight Plan

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    Hi there, I have business in Bermuda and need to go a few times a year. I can do this and combine vacation time with the family. I just don't want to have to rely on scheduled flights.

    Can anyone recommend a GA aircraft that will cruise 150+kts for 900nm (Daytona - Bermuda) with reserves carrying 4 with baggage?

    Many thanks
     
  2. Wayne877

    Wayne877 Filing Flight Plan

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    Just to confirm I have upto $150,000 to spend
     
  3. Ryanb

    Ryanb En-Route PoA Supporter

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    Are you Multi-IR? I would never travel such a distance over water in a single.
     
  4. Checkout_my_Six

    Checkout_my_Six Final Approach

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    charter a PC-12....
     
  5. Bill Jennings

    Bill Jennings Final Approach

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    Best bet. Lose an engine on a piston twin mid-way and you're still swimming.
     
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  6. Ryanb

    Ryanb En-Route PoA Supporter

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    Yea that's true.
     
  7. Wayne877

    Wayne877 Filing Flight Plan

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    Would prefer to buy!
     
  8. Checkout_my_Six

    Checkout_my_Six Final Approach

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    what's your monthly budget?.....that drives ownership more than purchasing power.

    There are many aircraft you could get into for that price range.....that would send your eyes bugging and bleed you dry.
     
  9. Wayne877

    Wayne877 Filing Flight Plan

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    Horses for courses!

    take the immersion kit and thats a gamble which is IMO worth considering
     
  10. Ryanb

    Ryanb En-Route PoA Supporter

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    It wouldn't be for me, but each to their own. Good luck!
     
  11. Wayne877

    Wayne877 Filing Flight Plan

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    Not really an issue, business expenses can cover most of that
     
  12. Checkout_my_Six

    Checkout_my_Six Final Approach

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  13. Wayne877

    Wayne877 Filing Flight Plan

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  14. Checkout_my_Six

    Checkout_my_Six Final Approach

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    spend the extra $20k for tips and extended fuel tanks.
     
  15. Wayne877

    Wayne877 Filing Flight Plan

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    in that case, it might be worth considering as long as the additions can guarantee the range
     
  16. Checkout_my_Six

    Checkout_my_Six Final Approach

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    It should do 850 mi plus reserves.....
     
  17. Wayne877

    Wayne877 Filing Flight Plan

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    could be cutting it a bit tight though, payload may be compromised.

    thanks for the rec though, I appreciate it. I'd not even heard of the queen air before now.
     
  18. Bill Jennings

    Bill Jennings Final Approach

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  19. weilke

    weilke Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    At 150k per year you'll be able to do this.
     
  20. Radar Contact

    Radar Contact Line Up and Wait

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    Huh? Mine will easily carry the OP required 4 plus bags over 900nm at 175+kts and if I lose an engine it will maintain 7000.
     
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  21. Bill Jennings

    Bill Jennings Final Approach

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    Will it maintain that 7000 for 450nm on a single engine? That's something I never researched. I know the plane is going to be a lot more draggy on one, how badly does it hit your range?
     
  22. luvflyin

    luvflyin En-Route PoA Supporter

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    What do you have
     
  23. Brad Z

    Brad Z En-Route

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    So what's the OP going to do when he gets to Bermuda and finds out they don't have 100LL? It's not typically available so the OP must rely on shipping barrels ahead of time, or finding a plane that can burn mo gas, and figure out a way to get it to the airport. Otherwise his option is only Jet A.

    What about an alternate if the airport shuts down as you arrive? Will you have the range to make it back to the US mainland?

    Honestly, what the OP proposes is not realistically possible for the budget he proposes.
     
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  24. avongil

    avongil Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Isn't fuel an issue at Bermuda? https://skyvector.com/airport/TXKF/L-F-Wade-International-Airport

    Going to need a turboprop or a diesel.

    edit - did not realize the starting point was Daytona.

    Flying commercial looks to be the most practical way once you start researching aircraft, training and the realities of this kind of travel. This is a professional flight.
     
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  25. avongil

    avongil Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Yeah, what Brad Z said...
     
  26. weilke

    weilke Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    Bermuda in a piston single or light twins is one of those things guys do for the challenge of it. It doesn't make for a realistic mode of transportation. You don't need 900nm range You need 900nm+ diversion around storm + 30min runway closure to locate llost luggage level of range.

    If you ditch on the way to the Bahamas, the coast guard comes and picks you up. To Bermuda you have to hope for a merchant vessel to divert and find you.

    Mu2
    Commander 690
    Citation II
    PC12
    KA200
    TBM700/850

    So, you can do this for 100-150k. But that is per year all-in cost.
     
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  27. luvflyin

    luvflyin En-Route PoA Supporter

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    PA23's seem to have good range. BE55, throttle back to the 150 knots you need and you'd probably have all the range you need. Probably other planes out there that would fill the bill if you fly it economicaly.

    EDIT: disregard, just read about there ain't no gas there to get ya back home.
     
  28. iamtheari

    iamtheari Line Up and Wait

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    I do not understand the business case that justifies saying that operating costs are not a concern but purchase price is, and a purchase price of $150,000 at that. If that really is the case, why not get an older Learjet? Here's one for $150,000:
    https://www.controller.com/listings/aircraft/for-sale/17487141/1974-learjet-24d

    The point is that chartering makes a lot more sense for this mission. Any plane that a sane man would trust his family aboard for that trip will either cost more than $150,000 to buy (and you really should, as a business user, be thinking of the cost of the purchase money rather than the amount of it) or cost a lot more than $150,000 per year to operate.

    But if your business case really does mean that operating costs are not a concern, just put your $150,000 down on a PC-12 or King Air and borrow the rest. The depreciation on the plane and interest on the loan will work themselves out as business expenses.
     
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  29. luvflyin

    luvflyin En-Route PoA Supporter

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    They got more golf courses there than Palm Springs
     
  30. Radar Contact

    Radar Contact Line Up and Wait

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    Obviously I would hope to not be in that position. I have flow a C-401 around the Bahamas, Turks and Puerto Rico from Georgia so I have planned for this possibility before.

    If I were to take my 310 on this mission, which I wouldn't to Bermuda but would the rest of the Caribbean, I have the following reference your question.

    My range at 10,000 and 177KTAS is 1263nm to flame out. If at the half way point of 900nm I lost an engine after that fuel burn my single engine ceiling is a little above 8000. I would cruise the remainder of the flight at 7000. I would then be down to around 110KTAS conservatively burning around 20gph worse case.

    Start with 163 gallons. By the 450 point I would have burned 65 gallons. The remaining 450 on single engine would burn 80 gallons. This would give an uncomfortable but make-able 18 gallons in the tank. These are conservative worse case numbers I feel.

    If you encountered worse winds etc that would obviously quickly eat in reserves then from 10,000 I'd have 18 miles to glide after dual flame-out.

    At that point with all that air in the tanks I should float for a bit while leisurely getting the raft and beer out for my time waiting on rescue. ;)

    Again, not a position I'd ever want to be in. PROVIDENCIALES to SAN JUAN is a much more comfortable 406nm and that's the farthest open water I've done flying a piston twin. FPR to Provo is 560nm with lots of divert spots on the way.
     
  31. Radar Contact

    Radar Contact Line Up and Wait

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    Cessna 310.
     
  32. AKBill

    AKBill Cleared for Takeoff

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    That's a long way over water and at 150kts that's about 6hrs (no wind). Not sure I would want to subject the family to that. Charter or go first class...
     
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  33. Bill Jennings

    Bill Jennings Final Approach

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    Looking at Wade airport on Gmaps, the GA ramp is all jets. Not a piston aircraft in sight. That sums it up right there.
     
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  34. luvflyin

    luvflyin En-Route PoA Supporter

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    Looks like it's not an issue now for him because of the gas thing but what is your range at 150 knots?
     
  35. Radar Contact

    Radar Contact Line Up and Wait

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    About 1364nm at 152KTAS. It has 163 gallon tanks with the aux tanks. I would never want to be in the sky that long! They offer optional wing locker tanks that would give my bird 1699nm at that speed/alt. I have more than enough gas now for my mission (family travel).
     
  36. Wayne877

    Wayne877 Filing Flight Plan

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    what version 310 do you have?
     
  37. Radar Contact

    Radar Contact Line Up and Wait

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    Normally aspirated Q model.
     
  38. Brad Z

    Brad Z En-Route

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    True, but they're short and hilly. Without a lot of range, a closed airport, or unforecast fog could mean trashing your plane or killing yourself. Not ideal.
     
  39. Wayne877

    Wayne877 Filing Flight Plan

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    sounds interesting!
    have to admit i'd not cottoned on to the availability (or lack of it) of 100ll in Bermuda so this somewhat limits my choices/ambitions
     
  40. luvflyin

    luvflyin En-Route PoA Supporter

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    Yeah. It was just a punchline. I wasn't thinking of "flight planing" based on longest fairway.