Bendixking AeroFlight (KI 300) and AeroCruze (KFC 230)

Discussion in 'Avionics and Upgrades' started by Steve P, Nov 13, 2018.

  1. chartbundle

    chartbundle Cleared for Takeoff

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    Doesn't look like it. The KFC230 has no on-board AHRS, no published GPS requirement, supports a bunch of legacy analog inputs like the King HSI and, well, King Servos.
    I suppose it could be based off the Sorcerer but the KFC230 is pretty obviously not an existing TruTrak product.
     
  2. Steve P

    Steve P Pre-Flight

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    No, the KFC 230 was a BK engineered product. The AeroCruze 100 are Trutrak products, and Trutrak is now part of BendixKing.
     
  3. Steve P

    Steve P Pre-Flight

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  4. Patricia Burch

    Patricia Burch Filing Flight Plan

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    Hi, I'm Patricia Burch. I own East Texas Flying Service Inc in Mineola, TX. We're a full service FBO and avionics installation center. I am also an AP/IA as well as an ATP/CFI and designated pilot examiner. Got a couple of questions for you. First of all,, I'm glad to see King striving to get back into the running in the light aircraft avionics market. I HATE MONOPOLIES! I have a couple of customers who are needing the KNI-300 as soon as the KA-310 is available. Good to know it will be Q1 2019. I also need to know if the KI-300 is stc'd for installation in any helicopters. I am a Robinson, Enstrom, Bell Schweizer service center. None of these helicopters are IFR certified and don't require attitude/heading gyros but the FAA won't let us install any instruments (even if they are not required) unless they are STC'd for helicopters. Also, I understand y'all recently acquired Tru-Trac Autopilots. I am a dealer for those units. Do I now order those from you?

    Patti Burch
     
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  5. Eddie Esserman

    Eddie Esserman Filing Flight Plan

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    Steven,

    It's August 2019. Any update on the the KFC 230??

    Thanks.

    Eddie
     
  6. flyingcheesehead

    flyingcheesehead Touchdown! Greaser!

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    According to this, it's now "available for certified aircraft".

    Then there's this, which lists some planes that they were supposedly going to cover with the initial AML. However, there's a post on Mooneyspace where someone asked this question at Oshkosh, and only the A36 was on the initial AML.

    After a bit more digging, it appears that you can only use the KI-256. It's not yet certified to interface with the KI-300, even though the KA-310 adapter box *is* certified supposedly. What a mess. Face. Palm.
     
  7. Ignacio Allende

    Ignacio Allende Pre-Flight

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    Bk went radio-silent again. A pity as Steven was working hard to narrow the breach, and things were getting interesting.
    This inconsistency is suspicious, to say the least.
     
  8. Lon Stratton

    Lon Stratton Filing Flight Plan

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    I committed to the KI300/KA310 on October 28,2015. It really will be the best solution for me considering my autopilot (KFC150) and vacuum system (It can go after this install). I've obviously been very patient. In August of this year, they advertised that these units were shipping. Oh wait......only STC'd for Beech right now.
    Steve conducted a webinar on the Aerovue Touch 5 days ago, so he's still around.
     
  9. flyingcheesehead

    flyingcheesehead Touchdown! Greaser!

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    You are definitely committed!

    Maybe you should BE committed. ;)
     
  10. Ignacio Allende

    Ignacio Allende Pre-Flight

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    You have the Ki256 I guess... wondering how much slide-in replacement would the ki300/ka310 be for my Kg258 (Kap150). Interesting if that commonality can beat or at least level with a G5 overall cost.
     
  11. Lon Stratton

    Lon Stratton Filing Flight Plan

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    Sometimes I feel like I have been......
     
  12. Lon Stratton

    Lon Stratton Filing Flight Plan

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    Correct. KI256 and KFC150. The G5 will not drive the flight director function of the autopilot, so I'm stuck with this option or an Aspen...(which would require a panel modification.)
     
  13. Ignacio Allende

    Ignacio Allende Pre-Flight

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    Have you got installation quotes already? That's where the advantage is, at least as advertised.
     
  14. Steve P

    Steve P Pre-Flight

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    Yup, I'm not dead.

    I just was not receiving emails from this thread, but that problem is solved now.

    Let's get some updates: The KI300/KA310 is STC'd and the AML is attached. The KFC 230 also just received it's amended AML which includes a few more airframes.

    I'm working on being more responsive, but I'm currently the only BK person on the forums, so I do miss things. Please feeling free to PM if you ever need answers on a thread that I may not have seen. I really appreciate all the talk on POA and I want to keep that engagement going!

    Cheers,

    Steve
     

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  15. Lon Stratton

    Lon Stratton Filing Flight Plan

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    Hello Steve. The KA310 AML assumes the KI300 is already installed. Is the KI300 approved for the PA32R-301T?
    Thanks!
    Lon
     
  16. Ignacio Allende

    Ignacio Allende Pre-Flight

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    Nice to read you back here Steven. I am seriously evaluating the 310 in order to keep my Kap150 alive (but that's another story). Can you please tell us more about reduction in installation costs as being a "slide-in replacement" for our current Ki256/Kg258's?. There's quite a breach to cover regarding a usd2.200 G5.

    Will the AeroCruze 230 be a slide in replacement for the Kap150? Only Kfc150 is mentioned.

    Will BK work towards some commonality with existing Kfc/Kap systems regarding the AeroCruze 100?
     
  17. flyingcheesehead

    flyingcheesehead Touchdown! Greaser!

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    So I can get the AeroCruze 230, and I think I can get the KI-300, but I can't get the required KA-310 to put them together?

    What is/was the plan for additions to the AML that left my M20R out on the KA-310?
     
  18. Lon Stratton

    Lon Stratton Filing Flight Plan

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    I'm waiting for a quote now, since it looks like this can happen if BK can deliver the equipment.
     
  19. Steve P

    Steve P Pre-Flight

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    So currently, the KFC 230 is only STC'd to replace existing KFC 150 installs. There will be an additional STC to include KFC 200 installation, but as far as the KAP 150 I'm not. If it is going to be included, it not going to be soon.

    AeroCruze 100 is a product that has a lot of movement around it right now. We are actively looking to expand the feature set of the autopilot. So when you say commonality what do you mean? Like look or features? Or Both?
     
  20. Steve P

    Steve P Pre-Flight

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  21. Ignacio Allende

    Ignacio Allende Pre-Flight

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    It would shure be nice to retain my actual autopilot capability with the 230 upgrade, if not I’d be forced to go with another brand.

    By commonality I mean installation costs, to say the least, having a Bendix autopilot currently installed. Brackets, hardware, you name it.
     
  22. RFriesen

    RFriesen Filing Flight Plan

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    Word is that the IAS function on the KFC 230 has been disabled indefinitely?
     
  23. flyingcheesehead

    flyingcheesehead Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Steve,

    I do appreciate the info you bring here, I just wish the company had your back. You've got a huge uphill battle to win customers back - If I were only going on what I've seen from you here, I'd buy BK equipment in a heartbeat.

    But what the company does just makes the idea of buying anything from BK the last option on our list. The horrendous repair costs for our KFC 150, the eons it took to get the KI-300 certified (and apparently the KA-310 still isn't for us), the treatment of our friends down at the local avionics shop who were a dealer of yours until "the great purge" earlier this year, the awful user interface of the new products... All of those things need to be turned around, and it doesn't appear that Honeywell has any interest in doing so.
     
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  24. Steve P

    Steve P Pre-Flight

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    I appreciate the kind words.

    The awful user interface, if you're referring to the KSN I think we can all agree that it wasn't the bee's knees. As for repair costs, we're using our repair partners to help bring that cost down and widen our repair network.

    And the KI 300..... We don't need to talk about that.

    I'm not trying to make excuses, but nothing is going to change until we take ownership of what we're doing. That starts with one person, and that person is me.
     
  25. Steve P

    Steve P Pre-Flight

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    Word on the street?

    I know the IAS function is not in the current release, not sure about it being permanently gone. I'll get back to you on that Richard.

    Cheers,

    Steve
     
  26. Steve P

    Steve P Pre-Flight

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    Ignacio,

    At this point, I wish I could give you some commonality, but since you have KAP 150 we can't put in a KFC 230 because it's only STCd to replace KFC 150 installs. That being said, we're adding the high wings to the AML around the end to the year, and if your aircraft is the one in your picture we're going to need to wait until that if you want a KFC 230. The next IF is if it's going to be certified to replace KAP 150 installs.

    Cheers,

    Steve
     
  27. Ignacio Allende

    Ignacio Allende Pre-Flight

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    Thanks Steve. I'm curious about the Kap/Kfc thing; isn't it the only difference between them Kap150 and Kfc150 the flight director? I mean, a different computer and indicator, but same servos.
    What limited the inclusion of the Kap150 in the 230 upgrade Stc then? If that does not get to happen, the Aerocruze 100 might suit my needs when available for the TU206G
     
  28. RFriesen

    RFriesen Filing Flight Plan

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    Steve, sorry but once again it is more frustrating news. In recent years others have come out with autopilots with the IAS function. Bendix King has been working on the 230 for years, and now the IAS is not available? One can only hope that is only a short term issue. Given the competition in the market place one would think it would be a must going forward.
     
  29. MarkH

    MarkH Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Steve,

    Before TruTrak was distracted by a large pile of BK money, they had plans to STC the autopilot for Gruman Yankees. Do you know if that will ever happen now that the TruTrak is the Aerocruze 100?
     
  30. Steve P

    Steve P Pre-Flight

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    That is the main difference, but the reason for the exclusion is for certification we're using the original KFC 150 STC as a baseline for the AML for the AeroCruze 230. So until we start looking at other STCs (like the KAP 150, KFC 200, etc.) it will remain only available for KFC systems.
     
  31. Steve P

    Steve P Pre-Flight

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    After the Mooney's get certified, which is well underway, we're moving. to the PA-24 and PA-30. The next spot on the roadmap is were the Grumman would fall into. We're currently evaluating this with the Grumman pilots association
     
  32. MarkH

    MarkH Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Any idea on a timeframe?
     
  33. flyingcheesehead

    flyingcheesehead Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Just saw on LinkedIn today that @Steve P has moved on from Honeywell/Bendix/King. Their loss... But indicative of how they chase away people who actually care.
     
  34. RFriesen

    RFriesen Filing Flight Plan

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    I don't know what the factors were that led him to move on, however i do agree, for Honeywell/Bendix-King a great loss. Steve had done a great job of making some in roads back to the GA community.
     
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  35. Groundpounder

    Groundpounder Cleared for Takeoff

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    I got a ballpark quote via the internet for a KI-300 and KI-310 to replace my KI-256. $7500-$8500. The GI-256 will probably be a bit more, but it has a lot more functionality, and probably a lot more options for autopilot interfacing down the road, if we ever replace the KFC-200.
     
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  36. flyingcheesehead

    flyingcheesehead Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Here's why you don't buy a KI-300... It's the one to the right of the Aspen, which is working correctly:

    KI-300 bad.jpeg
     
  37. chartbundle

    chartbundle Cleared for Takeoff

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    Looks just like my existing King vacuum gyro.
     
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  38. flyingcheesehead

    flyingcheesehead Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Touché. Mine would do that eventually if I left it on autopilot long enough, but we're talking probably 5 hours straight. If I cut off the autopilot, it re-erects itself in a couple of minutes and I can start the process over again. It probably leans over about 5 degrees per hour.
     
  39. Groundpounder

    Groundpounder Cleared for Takeoff

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    Did you try to get BK to fix it for you?
     
  40. flyingcheesehead

    flyingcheesehead Touchdown! Greaser!

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    It's not mine. But, the KI-300 is really a repackaged Sandia 340A. I have a very similar pic of one of those, and to my knowledge the issue has not been fixed yet. I can't believe the FAA certified the KI-300 the way it is.