Baton Rouge shooting

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I'll add that it doesn't matter what race you are. If you are breaking the law, cops will jack you up. If your not breaking the law, the cops won't **** with you.

So don't steal, carjack, sell dope, pimp girls, rob people, punch cops in the face, fight cops when they arrest you, reach for guns when they say show me your hands...... Your chance of survival increases dramatically.

Otherwise, expect grave bodily harm. Call it a hazard of your actions. But don't blame the righteous when your offspring is the one who ****ed up.
 
My wife called me this morning on her way to church (it's very close to where this happened) and asked if I could check to see if something was going on as a SWAT vehicle and a bunch of police just passed by her. She and my son are back home safe, thankfully. Also, you never can tell until things calm down, but I've read on multiple sites that it wasn't necessarily a police targeting event: "...The witness believes the shooting started before police arrived."
 
Ok. We've been unable to keep current events threads open recently because people are unable to keep themselves from delving into the politics. I know it's not easy, but as soon as this goes there it will be closed...and warnings/points issued to those that cross the line. Please keep that in mind.
 
It's just copycat stuff at this point. If the media would tone down the coverage, less of it would happen.
 
EdFred said:
It's just copycat stuff at this point. If the media would tone down the coverage, less of it would happen.
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I don't think it's just copycat. There's much deeper reasons. I agree the media is overplaying it immensely and making the situation worse.
 
How is the media overplaying it ? Do we not want to know the background behind this recent outbreak of violence, hear from both sides of the issue and not jump to conclusions.

To resolve issues like this, first we must have the knowledge that drives senseless acts like this, then try to address the causes.

Listening to one side only resolves nothing
 
Scrabo said:
How is the media overplaying it ? Do we not want to know the background behind this recent outbreak of violence, hear from both sides of the issue and not jump to conclusions.

To resolve issues like this, first we must have the knowledge that drives senseless acts like this, then try to address the causes.

Listening to one side only resolves nothing
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Same way they do with aviation crash fatalities vs car crash fatalities. You didn't hear about the x number of people that prematurely died from other means today or yesterday.
 
EdFred said:
Same way they do with aviation crash fatalities vs car crash fatalities. You didn't hear about the x number of people that prematurely died from other means today or yesterday.
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True but today incident just like Dallas, are deliberate planned acts of violence, no one plans to crash a car, have a heart attack etc....
 
Unit74 said:
I'll add that it doesn't matter what race you are. If you are breaking the law, cops will jack you up. If your not breaking the law, the cops won't **** with you.

So don't steal, carjack, sell dope, pimp girls, rob people, punch cops in the face, fight cops when they arrest you, reach for guns when they say show me your hands...... Your chance of survival increases dramatically.

Otherwise, expect grave bodily harm. Call it a hazard of your actions. But don't blame the righteous when your offspring is the one who ****ed up.
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If you honestly believe that it's that simple and that the police are always right, then I think it may be time you had your medication dosage checked.

Rich
 
RJM62 said:
If you honestly believe that it's that simple and that the police are always right, then I think it may be time you had your medication dosage checked.

Rich
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Have you read your own signature line? It seems you are disagreeing to make a point that you haven't actually made.
 
Dark days. Thank you for what you and all your fellow officers do @JCranford. My heart breaks for our country and I fear in the coming days if this violence against police doesn't stop, there will be other groups join in the nonsense and ratchet up the tension and violence.
 
There's this very simple truth:

Police officers do not have a choice whether or not to effect an arrest.

Suspects have the choice to comply, or resist.

The numbers are startling, though.... in incidents where people actually assaulted police officers with firearms, 75% of those people don't end up dead. That certainly is contrary to the theme of police being trigger happy thugs.
 
JCranford said:
I don't think anybody said the police were always right. What was said was during a police contact you should comply with police requests. Not complying causes bad things to happen.
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There is a time, place and legal remedy for what you think is a bad arrest, harassment, violation of rights and so on. On the side of the road is not any of those places or times. Yes sir, no sir, can I have your name and badge number and department please.

**** you, don't you touch me, no I will not get out, no I won't sign the ticket, no I am not going to jail...... You get the point. Wrong time, you will loose.

Cops are wrong all the time. Last check, they were H U M A Ns. Wrongs can be righted by legal or administrative remedies. Some people think that time is when the blue lights come on. And that's where the problem starts.
 
JCranford said:
I don't think anybody said the police were always right. What was said was during a police contact you should comply with police requests. Not complying causes bad things to happen.
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The force and methods that were used were not a just cause in my humble opinion. From the videos that were released, pinning the man down and practilly firing a whole mag into his chest from point blank range is purely inhumane. I sure do not know the circumstances but the way the officers addressed the problem did not look just.
 
Cooter143 said:
Have you read your own signature line? It seems you are disagreeing to make a point that you haven't actually made.
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I think my point was obvious. I was responding to a statement so absurd that it borders on clinically delusional:
Unit74 said:
I'll add that it doesn't matter what race you are. If you are breaking the law, cops will jack you up. If your not breaking the law, the cops won't **** with you.
Click to expand...

That's like saying that the police do no wrong. They never shoot too quickly, they never let their personal biases affect their decisions, they never mistake an innocent person for a guilty ine, they never over-react with force to situations that could be solved with words, none of that. They are perfect, therefore all you have to do is not be a criminal, and you will never fall victim to police violence.

That would be very nice, and I would very much like to believe it. Except that then I would be delusional.

There was another police-involved shooting today. It was in Brooklyn. You can read about it here:

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york...-involved-shooting-brooklyn-article-1.2714732

There were no riots, no protests, and no threats of retaliation. In fact, the witnesses backed up the police and confirmed their account. You know why? Because it actually was a righteous shoot. The perp actually had it coming. He didn't lose his life because he was selling loosies or CDs or driving through a white neighborhood. He lost his life because he assaulted and robbed several people and then opened fire on police officers. Therefore there are no protests. The police did what they had to, and the community backed them up.

Unfortunately, as recent history shows, that is not always the case; and indeed, it seems like incidents of police overreaction are increasing, especially against young black men. And although none of that justifies attacks against LEOs, it does help to explain it. In any group there will be unstable people who take the law into their own hands to seek their own brand of justice. So although this assault upon the police was (and is always) inexcusable, in the context of recent events, it was hardly unforeseeable.
Ryanb said:
Considering the timing, the first thing that came to mind was that it's some retaliation from the recent shooting down there. Sad stuff.
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I agree. I think it's pretty damned obvious. And yet according to Unit74, the police can do no wrong, therefore there was nothing to retaliate against.

Rich
 
RJM62 said:
I think my point was obvious. I was responding to a statement so absurd that it borders on clinically delusional:


That's like saying that the police do no wrong. They never shoot too quickly, they never let their personal biases affect their decisions, they never mistake an innocent person for a guilty ine, they never over-react with force to situations that could be solved with words, none of that. They are perfect, therefore all you have to do is not be a criminal, and you will never fall victim to police violence.

I agree. I think it's pretty damned obvious. And yet according to Unit74, the police can do no wrong, therefore there was nothing to retaliate against.

Rich
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With the exception of your posts, this is a reasonable discussion. Albeit, missing many of the pertinent facts. Your emotionally charged name calling only highlights to the rest of us that you are not interested in discussion or the truth. If you have any interest in being better informed, try restraining yourself from misrepresenting others and calling other people delusional. I reread this thread and yours is the only one that appears delusional to me. If you want we can just come up with better insults and keep throwing them back and forth until the thread gets blocked, which may be your goal, I'm not sure. But I would rather see what others think and let them share their thoughts.
 
Cooter143 said:
With the exception of your posts, this is a reasonable discussion. Albeit, missing many of the pertinent facts. Your emotionally charged name calling only highlights to the rest of us that you are not interested in discussion or the truth. If you have any interest in being better informed, try restraining yourself from misrepresenting others and calling other people delusional. I reread this thread and yours is the only one that appears delusional to me. If you want we can just come up with better insults and keep throwing them back and forth until the thread gets blocked, which may be your goal, I'm not sure. But I would rather see what others think and let them share their thoughts.
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Well said.
 
RJM62 said:
And yet according to Unit74, the police can do no wrong, therefore there was nothing to retaliate against.
Click to expand...

Uhhh... fact check. Unit74 also said, and I quote:

Unit74 said:
Cops are wrong all the time. Last check, they were H U M A Ns. Wrongs can be righted by legal or administrative remedies. Some people think that time is when the blue lights come on. And that's where the problem starts.
Click to expand...

I can see, however, that you're not one to let facts cloud your narrative.
 
I'm sure you are in expect in this field as evidence by the fact you read the news. And that's where your misconceptions originate from.

Anyone who passes judgement based on media reports are part of the post incident propaganda machine. Don't you think it's interesting that all these high profile cases end up getting flushed by the grand jury? Even when prosecuted, the state is found to be full of crap and prosecutors are facing debarment for pandering to a class verses proving lady justice not very blind at all. She is agenda driven.

It's amazing to me that people are blind to the fact the media is engaged in a vast social engineering campaign. Even when they are proven to flat out lie, people still walk in lockstep with them. The news used to report stories with facts. Now, the media sells web-hits and edits information to sensationalize incidents for shock and awe.

If your hip to the game, you wait for the real facts in court. If you are a shotgun lawyer with marginal Google capabilities, you self profess massaged information as stone cold facts and can't wait to hang the bastards. All the while, the smoke is still rising from the barrel and EMS is still rolling code to the event.

It's sad really that as a nation, we have come to this point. Where the crooks are martyrs and the police are demonized. Those who have taken the high road are **** on and those have taken the back roads are sanctified. We just casually discard facts and insert reckless opinions, solidify our position and then demand justice with little understanding of what happened and why.

You mentioned clinically delusional here. Yet, it would appear to me, and all the likes on the bottom of my first post, that you sir probably need to take a look in the mirror instead of pointing fingers and jumping on the social train to today's breaking news story.

Before professing about all these young black men being shot, you might want to sharpen your spear first over at the FBIs website and distilled out some facts instead of your opinion. It's clear you are unaware of any facts at all and your venom is trained on anyone that chooses to listen to rational information instead of hearsay and conjecture.

I'm sorry that I have had to try and explain this to you, but I'm fairly certain nothing will change your mind at this point. That's unfortunate but also case and point.



RJM62 said:
I think my point was obvious. I was responding to a statement so absurd that it borders on clinically delusional:


That's like saying that the police do no wrong. They never shoot too quickly, they never let their personal biases affect their decisions, they never mistake an innocent person for a guilty ine, they never over-react with force to situations that could be solved with words, none of that. They are perfect, therefore all you have to do is not be a criminal, and you will never fall victim to police violence.

That would be very nice, and I would very much like to believe it. Except that then I would be delusional.

There was another police-involved shooting today. It was in Brooklyn. You can read about it here:

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york...-involved-shooting-brooklyn-article-1.2714732

There were no riots, no protests, and no threats of retaliation. In fact, the witnesses backed up the police and confirmed their account. You know why? Because it actually was a righteous shoot. The perp actually had it coming. He didn't lose his life because he was selling loosies or CDs or driving through a white neighborhood. He lost his life because he assaulted and robbed several people and then opened fire on police officers. Therefore there are no protests. The police did what they had to, and the community backed them up.

Unfortunately, as recent history shows, that is not always the case; and indeed, it seems like incidents of police overreaction are increasing, especially against young black men. And although none of that justifies attacks against LEOs, it does help to explain it. In any group there will be unstable people who take the law into their own hands to seek their own brand of justice. So although this assault upon the police was (and is always) inexcusable, in the context of recent events, it was hardly unforeseeable.


I agree. I think it's pretty damned obvious. And yet according to Unit74, the police can do no wrong, therefore there was nothing to retaliate against.

Rich
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Anyone here remember Detroit in 1967? I do, and it wasn't pretty. I see a good chance of it happening again before summer's out. The rioters will be the ones burning themselves out of their homes and neighborhood.
 
Norman said:
Anyone here remember Detroit in 1967? I do, and it wasn't pretty. I see a good chance of it happening again before summer's out. The rioters will be the ones burning themselves out of their homes and neighborhood.
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Wasn't there, but history does repeat itself.
 
Baton Rouge today = nut case with an AR. Pure and simple.
I'm very concerned what's about to come down in Cleveland with open carriers fired up by Trump rhetoric. Ain't gonna be pretty. Way too much hate on all sides. Blame whomever your political leanings dictate - accomplishes nothing.
 
Norman said:
Anyone here remember Detroit in 1967? I do, and it wasn't pretty. I see a good chance of it happening again before summer's out. The rioters will be the ones burning themselves out of their homes and neighborhood.
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I was just thinking of Detroit today when someone on NPR compared this summer to the "awful" summer of 1968. I thought 1967 was a better comparison. Violence for the sake of violence, against people doing their jobs as well as each other; police reactions, and in some cases, overreactions. Not multiple assassinations of major public figures.

(I wasn't actually there, though I lived in Detroit at that time, grew up there in fact. I was away at summer camp that month. My parents rented a cottage nearby to escape the danger. I remember the news reports though. We were worried that the fires and looting would spread to our neighborhood. Would we have a house to go back to? Scary days...)
 
JCranford said:
I don't think anybody said the police were always right. What was said was during a police contact you should comply with police requests. Not complying causes bad things to happen.
Click to expand...
As a former law enforcement office I don't agree with this sentiment.

to many cops today view themselves as seperate from the community. They are not governed by the same rules as everyone else. There is also a big shortcoming in the process of holding LEO's responsible for their actions. I trusted cops until I was one.
The fifth admendment is not designed to protect criminals. It is intended to protect the innocent when dealing with bad cops. Unless you're talking about a routine traffic stop or a situation when you know why you're interacting with a cop I recommend exercising the constitutional protections afforded to you.
 
Did you actually read what you quoted from JCranford, Tarheel...? He never suggested that you not exercise your constitutional rights. He said that one should comply with the lawful orders of a police officer, and that not doing so will create problems for you. That seems a no-brainer to me.

Jim
 
I look like a cop and I get along with cops. Most cops. Not all cops. The ones that I associate with are professional, and go out of their way to maintain a professional appearance and conduct themselves as such. I'm sure it's hard to do at times.

But there's also f****** dicks out there too. The good cops I know hate them just as much as you and I.
 
Tarheelpilot said:
As a former law enforcement office I don't agree with this sentiment.

to many cops today view themselves as seperate from the community.
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No real cop would advocate resisting arrest.

JCranford is absolutely right in what he says.

******* cops exist because *******s exist, and cops are just members of the general population. But your correct course of action isn't to resist arrest. There's NO upside.
 
Tarheelpilot said:
to many cops today view themselves as seperate from the community. They are not governed by the same rules as everyone else. There is also a big shortcoming in the process of holding LEO's responsible for their actions.
Click to expand...

This is anecdotal, not fact. There is more pressure, accountability and oversight of cops than ever.
 
ircphoenix said:
No real cop would advocate resisting arrest.

JCranford is absolutely right in what he says.

******* cops exist because *******s exist, and cops are just members of the general population. But your correct course of action isn't to resist arrest. There's NO upside.
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No one is advocating resisting arrest. That's retarded

What I am saying is law enforcement in not innocent in this country. All cops aren't bad obviously. Nor are all of them good. When you happen to interact with one you have no idea which one you have been lucky enough to deal with.
 
Tarheelpilot said:
As a former law enforcement office I don't agree with this sentiment.

to many cops today view themselves as seperate from the community. They are not governed by the same rules as everyone else. There is also a big shortcoming in the process of holding LEO's responsible for their actions. I trusted cops until I was one.
The fifth admendment is not designed to protect criminals. It is intended to protect the innocent when dealing with bad cops. Unless you're talking about a routine traffic stop or a situation when you know why you're interacting with a cop I recommend exercising the constitutional protections afforded to you.
Click to expand...


This sounds more a quote from a security guard than an actual police officer. I smell a wolf in sheeps clothing.
 
Tarheelpilot said:
No one is advocating resisting arrest. That's retarded

What I am saying is law enforcement in not innocent in this country. All cops aren't bad obviously. Nor are all of them good. When you happen to interact with one you have no idea which one you have been lucky enough to deal with.
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JCranford wasn't saying capitulate to every abuse of power possible and slink away while being victimized by criminals in uniform and out of uniform.

He was saying the place to argue isn't on the side of the road or when officers are putting cuffs on you. It's in the lobby of the police station.
 
Tarheelpilot said:
No one is advocating resisting arrest. That's retarded

What I am saying is law enforcement in not innocent in this country. All cops aren't bad obviously. Nor are all of them good. When you happen to interact with one you have no idea which one you have been lucky enough to deal with.
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I have stayed out of this till this post. This is nonsense! There are very, very few "bad" cops. You know what you dealing with in 999 interactions out of 1000. You said former law enforcement, what department and what position for how long?
 
Cooter143 said:
This is anecdotal, not fact. There is more pressure, accountability and oversight of cops than ever.
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Not if you look at the actual outcome of criminal cases involving cops using excessive force, violating people's civil rights and stealing from people. Sure there is lots of media coverage and people blogging about **** on the internet but unfortunately there is a very small percentage of cops actually held accountable for the crimes they commit.

You call it anecdotal which I find insulting seeing as I was a law enforcement officer. I'm speaking from personal experience. Not just some general feeling I have about something without fact. I know for a fact that people are not treated equally by law enforcement. I have direct observation to support that position.

On top of that you have cash strapped municipal governments utilizing their local cops as revenue generators, throw in the effect of the drug war on law enforcement and consider the paramilitarization of departments you end up in a scenario where an average guy might not be so smart in assuming the cops your buddy.
 
ircphoenix said:
JCranford wasn't saying capitulate to every abuse of power possible and slink away while being victimized by criminals in uniform and out of uniform.

He was saying the place to argue isn't on the side of the road or when officers are putting cuffs on you. It's in the lobby of the police station.
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Or in court be it civil or criminal.
 
Sounds like he worked for maybe the Mexican Federalies or possible in Sierra Leon?
 
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