Basic Med may not catch on

labbadabba

labbadabba

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labbadabba
So, heard something alarming. Well, 2 things really.

1. Basic Med won't catch on in the long run because physicians bear liability for the pilot. Apparently, there are already large medical practices (hospitals and chains) that have been instructing their physicians not to sign off on Basic Med until the liability issue can be addressed.

2. AOPA apparently wanted to charge for training and application. The FAA (specifically the regional FAA Aeromedical divisions) fought the AOPA to keep the whole process free. AOPA was attempting to use Basic Med as a racket to drive up membership...
 
Yeah, as I heard about Basic Med I myself thought if I were Joe Doctor I wouldn't have a good feeling about pronouncing somebody "fit" to fly and then tying my own name to it.

I mean one has only to look to part 121 airline pilots that fell dead in the cockpit with a valid First Class Medical in their hip pocket !
 
You think too much of physicians. Pot docs write scripts for federally controlled substances. Docs like that will sign anything for $40. Tons of sign anything, sign much worse, docs in this world.
The FAA isn't beholden to crAOPA, the feds can write the course themselves or some other av org can do it. And the big one anyone over 40 who doesn't need a 2nd class medical is an idiot if they don't use basic med. Yes it could be better, but it is still better for the over 40 crowd than what they had. Not alarming at all.
labbadabba said:
So, heard something alarming. Well, 2 things really.

1. Basic Med won't catch on in the long run because physicians bear liability for the pilot. Apparently, there are already large medical practices (hospitals and chains) that have been instructing their physicians not to sign off on Basic Med until the liability issue can be addressed.

2. AOPA apparently wanted to charge for training and application. The FAA (specifically the regional FAA Aeromedical divisions) fought the AOPA to keep the whole process free. AOPA was attempting to use Basic Med as a racket to drive up membership...
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The certification is not much different that the certifications docs write for other things, from return to work after industrial accidents to DOT commercial driver medical. Even if your primary won't, there will be plenty available who will.

Base on AOPA recent webinar, their course will be available to non-member. And there are likely other testing organizations that will jump on the bandwagon.

Plus, BasicMed isn't for the pilot who can easily pass a third class medical. It really for the SI pilot who had to spend thousands every year for tests doctors think is unnecessary.
 
Many local doc-in-the-box places offer DOT physicals. I'm sorta waiting on a credible report that some pilot somewhere went to one of them and successfully got his BasicMed signoff.
 
There's no shortage of doctors who will certify extremely unhealthy people as fit to drive an 80k pound truck and issue them a shiny DOT med card saying so. The liability over someone in a tiny airplane pales in comparison.
 
midlifeflyer said:
...

Plus, BasicMed isn't for the pilot who can easily pass a third class medical. It really for the SI pilot who had to spend thousands every year for tests doctors think is unnecessary.
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Or people who like to limit their risks, if I didn't need to exercise commercial and above privalges, even though I can pass a normal medical, I'd go basic, it's a small step further from the government.
 
James331 said:
Or people who like to limit their risks, if I didn't need to exercise commercial and above privalges, even though I can pass a normal medical, I'd go basic, it's a small step further from the government.
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Good point. If you're denied a medical for any reason you're in a pretty bad position but if your doctor refuses to sign the BasicMed form you can just find another doctor. It's like a flight review. You can't fail it, just not pass it.
 
MassPilot said:
My last AME visit cost $175. My doctor said he would do the BasicMed exam as part of my annual physical which is completely covered by my insurance.
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THAT is a very good point

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
 
labbadabba said:
So, heard something alarming. Well, 2 things really.

1. Basic Med won't catch on in the long run because physicians bear liability for the pilot. Apparently, there are already large medical practices (hospitals and chains) that have been instructing their physicians not to sign off on Basic Med until the liability issue can be addressed.

2. AOPA apparently wanted to charge for training and application. The FAA (specifically the regional FAA Aeromedical divisions) fought the AOPA to keep the whole process free. AOPA was attempting to use Basic Med as a racket to drive up membership...
Click to expand...
And who did you hear this from?

FAA had nothing to do with whether the course would be free. The entire regulation originated from legislation initiated and passed by congress.
 
Read the physician's declaration in AC68-1. The doctor isn't certifying the pilot, he's certifying the exam. Pretty simple.

I literally just got off the phone with my AME. He declined to make an appt for my flight physical and told me to go listen to the Region Flight Surgeon's presentation about Basic Med tomorrow morning at a local pilot assn meeting. I guess I'll know more about Basic Med tomorrow.
 
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labbadabba said:
So, heard something alarming. Well, 2 things really.

1. Basic Med won't catch on in the long run because physicians bear liability for the pilot. Apparently, there are already large medical practices (hospitals and chains) that have been instructing their physicians not to sign off on Basic Med until the liability issue can be addressed.

2. AOPA apparently wanted to charge for training and application. The FAA (specifically the regional FAA Aeromedical divisions) fought the AOPA to keep the whole process free. AOPA was attempting to use Basic Med as a racket to drive up membership...
Click to expand...

I believe both are incorrect.

Stewart nailed it in the above post. The doctor certifies the exam. The pilot certifies their fitness to fly.

Then from https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2017/january/05/faa-reviews-aopa-medical-course :
"Pilots would need to complete the course, which AOPA will offer for free, every two years in addition to seeing their personal physician every four years to operate under the law."
 
bflynn said:
I believe both are incorrect.

Stewart nailed it in the above post. The doctor certifies the exam. The pilot certifies their fitness to fly.

Then from https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2017/january/05/faa-reviews-aopa-medical-course :
"Pilots would need to complete the course, which AOPA will offer for free, every two years in addition to seeing their personal physician every four years to operate under the law."
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And regular visit to a specialist/ care provider if u have SI or a condition for which u have SI.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
 
Yes, yes, there are other requirements. But for the OP, the two things he posted about are not true.
 
Stewartb said:
I literally just got off the phone with my AME. He declined to make an appt for my flight physical and told me to go listen to the Region Flight Surgeon's presentation about Basic Med tomorrow morning at a local pilot assn meeting. I guess I'll know more about Basic Med tomorrow.
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Please share what you learn from that meeting. I'm curious to know what an RFS has to say about the subject.
 
bflynn said:
I believe both are incorrect.

Stewart nailed it in the above post. The doctor certifies the exam. The pilot certifies their fitness to fly.
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not if you read 68.1 "instructions to the state licensed physician", starting half way down the page..... :(
 
My GP would sign it no problem.

As I have a letter from him stating that I am fit to fly, his words not mine and his signature is on it.

Albeit, the FAA doesn't care what he has to say.:D


The bigger issue is that Basic Med isn't going to bring as many old pilots back in as they think it will. I can see it being good for those with SIs.
 
midcap said:
My GP would sign it no problem.

As I have a letter from him stating that I am fit to fly, his words not mine and his signature is on it.

Albeit, the FAA doesn't care what he has to say.:D
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i was under an SI for about 5 years. My specialist repeatedly wrote "ok to fly" as part of my annual documentation, even though I told him the FAA didn't care about that part.
 
midcap said:
The bigger issue is that Basic Med isn't going to bring as many old pilots back in as they think it will. I can see it being good for those with SIs.
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Agreed, if BasicMed did not require the initial FAA Medical/Special Issuance except for the ones explicitly identified in the AC, it would bring many, many more pilots back. Most of the pilots quit because of the Hurdle to get the special Issuance since the FAA treats all pilots as if they are commercial pilots with paying passengers. For pilots with a clean medical in the last 10 years, that stopped because of SI needs, they may return if they are not one of the listed items. Pilots that are outside of the 10 yr window or started and never finished an SI or were denied an SI, the hurdle is still daunting. More so since pilots that have a current Medical that get the same condition (not including the AC items) never have to go through the SI process. IF we ever get to where all pilots under BasicMed do not require FAA Issuance except the explicit AC items, I believe we would have a significant return to flying of pilots that just didn't want the hassle of the FAA requirements that actually have zero to do with pilots health but have everything to do with liability for commercial pilots carrying passengers or operating heavy planes.

Technically the King case, now means he can downgrade from his Falcon to a smaller plane (6000 or less) and stay below 18000 ft and operate as PIC without a 2nd pilot if he re-ups under BasicMed on or after May 1.
 
MassPilot said:
My last AME visit cost $175. My doctor said he would do the BasicMed exam as part of my annual physical which is completely covered by my insurance.
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Yes, I'm trying to arrange something similar with the local clinic doctor who said he was willing to sign off on BasicMed.
 
bbchien said:
not if you read 68.1 "instructions to the state licensed physician", starting half way down the page..... :(
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Can you reference that better? The latest version of 68.1 does not have the text "instructions to the state licensed physician" in it. Section 7.2.2 deals with instructions to the physician about the medical exam, but it is mostly the list of areas to examine. 7.2.2.1 states

Section 68.7(c)(2) requires the physician to exercise medical discretion to address, as medically appropriate, any medical conditions identified, and to exercise medical discretion in determining whether any medical tests are warranted as part of the comprehensive medical examination. Section 68.7(c)(3) requires the physician to discuss all prescription and nonprescription drugs the individual reports taking and their potential to interfere with the safe operation of an aircraft or motor vehicle. Provided the physician is satisfied that the applicant does not present any medical evidence that the applicant is not safe for flight, the physician shall sign and date the checklist in accordance with § 68.7(c)(4).
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Later in Appendix A, Section 1 it tells them to sign the form "IF the physician determines that he/she is not aware of any medical conditions..."

Still later on page A-6, it lists 6 requirements of the physician, none of which are to certify that the pilot is fit to fly. And the statement on the form contains the same kind of wording - that the physician discussed the checklist, discussed medications, performed and exam and did not find anything.

The wording seems very careful chosen to avoid requiring that the doctor take responsibility for the pilot's later health.

Today, if a pilot fails to disclose something non-obvious to you on their MedExpress form, are you responsible for failing to find it?
 
Regarding the thread title, has anyone considered the possibility that "may" and "may not" have exactly the same information content? :yingyang:
 
My Doc has said no issue signing it and will do it as part of my annual exam. Of course when he retires who knows. It will save me the hassle of my sleep apnea SI which not really a big deal other than the it is annual instead of every 2 years.

I really wish they would revisit the drivers license medical that would make it a no brainer.
 
The first one...I disagree. As others have said, doctors put their name on riskier stuff.

The second one...that would be quite a surprise, and if true, I'd probably cancel my AOPA membership. But that would be uncharacteristic and there's a lot of AOPA hate around, so I'm slow to believe that one too.
 
ZeroPapaGolf said:
There's no shortage of doctors who will certify extremely unhealthy people as fit to drive an 80k pound truck and issue them a shiny DOT med card saying so. The liability over someone in a tiny airplane pales in comparison.
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Someone wrecking a truck on the interstate doesn't get international news attention.
 
AggieMike88 said:
Please share what you learn from that meeting. I'm curious to know what an RFS has to say about the subject.
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I can only guess. It's my impression that FAA Aerospace Medicine is not completely on board with BadicMed and some may folks there may even be openly hostile towards the concept. One of the communiques from a RFS to AMEs warned them of liability if they did BasicMed exams (it's not the FAAs place to advise AMEs on liability), suggested they should report suspected violations of 61.53 to the safety hotline (in violation of physician patient privacy if the appointment was not for a medical certificate) and warned them that if airman did not hold a medical certificate, they could have their airman certification revoked if there was an issue that would otherwise result in having the medical certificate pulled (which is 100% non-sense).

The good news is that organizationally, ASIs who enforce regulations do not report under Aerospace Medicine and Flight Standards is the owner (and supporter) of BasicMed.
 
Thanks @Brad Z ... I appreciate your ability to keep us informed of what happens behind the scenes.
 
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Brad Z said:
...and warned them that if airman did not hold a medical certificate, they could have their airman certification revoked if there was an issue that would otherwise result in having the medical certificate pulled (which is 100% non-sense).
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Yeah, who cares about the intent of Congress!
 
C'mon, congress did nothing but hose the whole idea up. I want what the EAA petition asked for. What we got is a crock of government BS.

The Alaska Region RFS seems neutral about BasicMed. He made it clear that it is not 3rd class medical reform since nothing about 3rd class has changed. He also expressed doubt that the May 1st date would be met.

Whether BasicMed catches on or not will be decided by private practice physicians and their willingness to participate. Whether it's smart or not to use your PCP for flight status? I prefer keeping my health care doc and my flight doc separate. I'd probably keep it that way in BasicMed if I ever go that way.
 
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Stearman said:
The first one...I disagree. As others have said, doctors put their name on riskier stuff.
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I'm not convinced that this really risky. If you parse the words in the statements, the doctor isn't certifying that the airman is healthy. They are certifying that they performed an exam. The airman is responsible for using that exam plus other things, including fitness to fly on a particular day, to certify themselves fit for flight. It's not really different than a 3rd class exam and it might even been a little tougher than a 3rd class exam because your doctor knows all the details the FAA never asks about.

For example in section 7.2.2.1, the doctor is instructed that they shall sign if the preconditions are met. Those preconditions are 1) to exercise medical discretion to address any medical conditions identified, 2) discuss all prescription and nonprescription drugs the individual reports taking and their potential to interfere with the safe operation of an aircraft or motor vehicle and 3) that the applicant does not present any medical evidence that would be a problem.

The risk appears to really lie with the airman. If you don't tell your doctor then you cannot fault the doctor for failing for find something that was non-obvious. Now that will never prevent them from getting sued, but it should be a very open and shut case.
 
Brad Z said:
...It's my impression that FAA Aerospace Medicine is not completely on board with BadicMed and some may folks there may even be openly hostile towards the concept....
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If they don't like BasicMed, maybe they should have worked harder at dealing with deferred applications in a timely manner, made more reasonable decisions, and trusted their AMEs more. :rolleyes1:
 
labbadabba said:
So, heard something alarming. Well, 2 things really.

1. Basic Med won't catch on in the long run because physicians bear liability for the pilot. Apparently, there are already large medical practices (hospitals and chains) that have been instructing their physicians not to sign off on Basic Med until the liability issue can be addressed.

2. AOPA apparently wanted to charge for training and application. The FAA (specifically the regional FAA Aeromedical divisions) fought the AOPA to keep the whole process free. AOPA was attempting to use Basic Med as a racket to drive up membership...
Click to expand...
 

The liability for your physician is a re d herring brought about by opponents of BasicMed. Physicians do physicals for every school kid in America who want to play sports.

It is inherently more dangerous to play football than fly. With lawyers suing everyone for anything, your doctor is more likely to be sued for late appointments than for stating you are in good health for any reason.
 
Steve Janowski said:
The liability for your physician is a re d herring brought about by opponents of BasicMed. Physicians do physicals for every school kid in America who want to play sports.

It is inherently more dangerous to play football than fly. With lawyers suing everyone for anything, your doctor is more likely to be sued for late appointments than for stating you are in good health for any reason.
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Are anal exams required for sports physicals?

Basic Med is a PoS IMO, with possible exception of the few % aldready on a SI. Anyone new to flying still has to run the MedEx gauntlet, and the stated physician (not NP, PA...) exam requirements go beyond a Class 3 AME medical. Next thing you know they're sending you off for unfunded (if you are on Obama"Care") full blood workups, chest xrays, EKG, etc to cover their asses. Don't think their malpractice ins co's aren't going to demand that, to cover their asses.

Anything other than DL "medical" is a FAIL.
 
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