So you're saying an "accident" is the same thing as the kid stealing and taking a joy ride?
I get it. He "accidentally" chose that plane.
Barefoot Bandit Gets 7 Years
- Thread starter brien23
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So you're saying an "accident" is the same thing as the kid stealing and taking a joy ride?
I get it. He "accidentally" chose that plane.
Dr. O
Pattern Altitude
I grew up on a dirt poor farm with a father that died when I was 17... I have supported myself since that day... We worked like dogs for what little we had... There was no money for insurance and if some joy riding kid from town took our only car and wrecked it we would be walking... The neighbors were no better off than we were... In our farm area the rule was simple: You steal, you die...
Every farm had a loaded rifle sitting near the back door of the house and everyone in each house intended to use it if there was rattling in the night...
He is not getting nearly enough punishment - it should be a minimum of ten years served at hard labor...
denny-o
Every farm had a loaded rifle sitting near the back door of the house and everyone in each house intended to use it if there was rattling in the night...
He is not getting nearly enough punishment - it should be a minimum of ten years served at hard labor...
denny-o
Alexb2000
En-Route
Of course not, but loss rate is loss rate as far as insurance companies are concerned, the reason is immaterial in the aggregate.
If you guys have extra energy and want to reduce aircraft insurance rates there is a lot that can be done. Go out to the airport and talk to any pilot doing a low pass, or talking off in low vis., or not pre-flighting, or flying VFR on a marginal day, etc. This kid's impact is an anomaly, pilots doing stupid things day after day isn't.
As suggested above: Tell these pilots doing dangerous operations that if they don't straighten up, you'll cut off their hands and burn out their eyes with acid. That should get their attention.
You signed off that option when you filed an insurance claim. Suborgation becomes their right. If you don't file a claim you may exact your pound of flesh.
fgcason
En-Route
This isn't about statistics. This is about a little snot that can't keep his greasy hands off something that doesn't belong to him.
If you crash your own car, that's self inflicted and a straightforward case of get what you deserve for being stupid.
If someone else comes along, lifts your car and crashes it, it's infuriating in the extreme because you did everything right and have to deal with someone else's nonsense. Then you have to go fight the insurance company for months or a year or more just to get part of the money to replace what you already had.
There's no reason to cut a criminal some slack because of bean counting while trying to compare stealing several airplanes instead of him gunning down a mcdonalds full of people or worse.
The kid is a thief and that's all there is to it. Grand theft aircraft. Breaking and entering. Trespassing. Destruction of private property. Breaking a whole bunch of rules that all the rest of us obey including the rules we can't stand to put up with but do anyway. And whatever else... Toss the kid in the slammer, give him a big hard rock and a small hammer then tell him to make fine powder then when he's done, give him another rock to it again. That'll give him plenty of time to think about what he did and a physical activity which is good for the soul. When he's let out of the slammer, he needs to get to work and pay back the owners for the loss of property he caused. Even then he's getting off easy...
No sympathy. None at all.
7 years in the lockup. The kid is probably already out on probation anyway planning his next rampage.
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denverpilot
Tied Down
That's the reverse version of "if you have nothing to lose".
Alexb2000
En-Route
Come on now. I can't believe this group is a bunch of nancys?
No one here ever, drank underage, drove after a few (or more than a few), smoked a joint, touched someone is a sexual way under 18, "borrowed" something that wasn't their's, got a ticket for exhibition of speed, etc.?
Not that those crimes are on par with Barefoot, but relative to scale with the punishment being suggested every one of us would have probably spent their 21st birthday in county.
10 Years hard labor BTW would be almost double the average homicide conviction.
The real fact of the matter is the actions of Colton were foretold long ago in a cauldron brewed by insurance actuaries; the most evil of trades, mathematicians gone over to the Dark Side... insurance. He is a random loss occurrence that was already built into the premium of the losses. It takes organized theft/salvage rings to alter risk assignment for that type of thing.
Clark1961
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Just because I choose to have insurance is no reason to say that stealing from me or destroying my property is okay. The poster I referred to didn't seem to hold the same belief.
Oh, and I can still file suit against someone or hound a DA to press charges even though a claim might have been paid by an insurance company. One does not negate the other.
:................................... Tell these pilots doing dangerous operations that if they don't straighten up, you'll cut off their hands and burn out their eyes with acid. That should get their attention.
You are a fast learner Alex.... So, now even you know what will happen if you decide to steal my plane, or anything else I own..... I try to be a nice guy and most people I know don't have a problem with my attitude.. I can say the words out in this part of the state about my feelings and I am 99.9999% sure no one will rip off my plane... For the other.0001% there is a 100% chance he/she will crash it on take off..
:wink2::wink2:
Ben
www.haaspowerair.com
Filing suit, yes, you signed that away to the insurance company. As far as hounding the DA for a criminal complaint, that is still within your purview.
Alexb2000
En-Route
You are a fast learner Alex.... So, now even you know what will happen if you decide to steal my plane, or anything else I own..... I try to be a nice guy and most people I know don't have a problem with my attitude.. I can say the words out in this part of the state about my feelings and I am 99.9999% sure no one will rip off my plane... For the other.0001% there is a 100% chance he/she will crash it on take off..
Ben
www.haaspowerair.com
I know we're all just having a little fun on a Friday afternoon (I think). Assuming you are talking about some form of sabotage that would crash someone on take-off, you realize that you would likely be prosecuted for murder? We all love our planes, but they're still just material things, not worth anyones life, or time in prison IMO.
Let'sgoflying!
Touchdown! Greaser!
Read today he got 6.5 yrs on the fed charges, to be run concurrently(!)
AND that the prosecutors had asked for it to be concurrent!
AND that the prosecutors had asked for it to be concurrent!
I have fun in everything I do..... Life is too short not to.
As for the " material things " you stated..... It is in the eyes of the beholder ya know.
. What is very precious to me might be disposable trash to you...As for my plane... No need for sabotage, all one needs to do it take a plane the size of a Cessna 150 and install just under 400 horsepower in it and stand back... That alone will be the demise of any thief and most pilots....
There is maybe 5 people I know that might be be able to get it off the ground with proper coaching from me... I think Henning and Ted could do it and few other on here too. As for some novice punk thief...... If they could clear the far fenceline of the airport I would be amazed,,, and then they better not let me catch um. <G>
Carry On soldier...........
Ben.
Clark1961
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Hmmm, I think you need better legal advice. The insurance may have my right to file for physical damages. There are other avenues...just have to think outside the policy.
Best be careful because if you screw their ability to surrogate then you have violated your insurance contract. Not sure you want to risk your insurance pay out over maybe being able to collect from the thief.
Let'sgoflying!
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CNN: "His attorney has said that his client hopes to go to college one day to study aviation or engineering."
ha, love to see his resume for his first job app.
ha, love to see his resume for his first job app.
fgcason
En-Route
I'd like to be in the room during the interview.
It would probably be pretty easy to come up with some very simple questions with extremely difficult answers.
SAROPS
Pre-Flight
This kids going to be your Captain someday Flight training and college paid for from the movie and book deal!
Flight training and college paid for from the movie and book deal!
Tom-D
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Tom-D
This kids going to be your Captain someday
No.... he can not profit from is crimes. the money made from any deal must go to restitution of his crimes.
They'll let him pay for school out of it. Anything to decrease the chance of recidivism. Besides, the prison will get to take a cut this way. Think of how much they can bill him for phone calls and data. Jail/Prison communications and commissary are cash printing presses. If a phone company tried to charge you these rates in a monopolistic setting they would be in prison.
poadeleted21
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Not even close to what I was saying. Did I ever say I didn't have insurance or wouldn't insure it? Was just pointing out that having some ass-gasket steal and crash my plane wouldn't be a happy day even with the insurance check.
Tom-D
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Tom-D
The law says no. he will be in federal prison which earns time off for good behavior at a lesser rate than state pen. He'll serve approximately 5.5-6 years
This kids going to be your Captain someday
Meaning the FAA hasn't noticed his few creative FAR violations?
Let'sgoflying!
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I read he was forbidden to benefit from movies, books, speaking by one judge.
Did they take any enforcement action against him ? By now its probably too late under the 'stale complaint' rules they are under.
Unless there is a substance abuse related reason he cant get a medical I dont think the FAA will have much of a case against him 6 years from now. Criminal conviction alone doesn't do it, plenty of people who spent time inside who got into commercial flying afterwards.
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Bob Noel
Well, maybe the FAA could get him under 61.18. This would mean we'd finally get one thing of value out of the TSA.
fgcason
En-Route
How many of those people were inside for stealing and wrecking airplanes then got a job flying for someone after they got out?
Ok, so he gets his certificates and the FAA's stamp of approval. What then? What happens when he applies everywhere and no one hires him for the typical whatever reasons? Is everyone going to be at risk of him suing them because of his reputation even if that's not the reason he didn't get called in for an interview?
Who knows, he may sort himself out and honestly be as good as the best of us or even better even when nobody is looking - one of those Frank Abagnale, Jr type things.
OTOH, he's dug himself a pretty deep hole and been filling it in with airplane shaped scrap aluminum on top of himself. Just a wild guess here however he's probably going to have a rough time getting a job ferrying airplanes around the country.
KSCessnaDriver
Pattern Altitude
No, you and others made it clear that you would rather have blood than jail time, even though no one was actually hurt by his crimes.
Tom-D
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fgcason
En-Route
Too many people are looking at the elephant with a microscope.
It's not about blood or jail time. The actual preference is for him to not steal stuff in the first place. If he doesn't steal stuff that doesn't belong to him, he doesn't have to risk jail time or getting his brains bashed out. It's really that simple. That's what this is really about.
Poor little kid, had to go to jail because he couldn't keep his hands to himself. Poor little kid got shot because he couldn't keep his hands to himself.
Poor little kid got killed when he crashed the airplane he stole from someone.
Whatever happens to him is self inflicted.
What's so hard about not stealing someone else's stuff? Why should everyone else have to put up with some self centered kid's behavior just because he wanted to steal from them?
It's pathetic.
Clark1961
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Perhaps you mean that apparently no one was physically injured by his crimes?
People were certainly hurt by his crimes.
SAROPS
Pre-Flight
Can they violate, do they have jurisdiction over non pilots?
On the note of substance abuse- they let Prouse and the other drunk pilot back in the cockpit after getting out of the slammer, and they endangered 58 lives. Why not give this kid a chance after he pays his dues?
Tony
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Most of them spent time as guest of the state for flying cocaine up from south america. As long as they didn't also rack up a conviction for using the stuff, its just another felony that you can get pardoned out of 5-10 years after release. It's like it never happened.
He flew the plane, so he was a pilot, right ?
They can't act against his nonexisting certificate, I believe the FARs allow for civil penalties/fines even if you dont hold a certificate (but proceed to repair aircraft etc.).
Tom-D
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Tom-D
I'll bet if when he gets out and goes back to San Juan County he will not be pardoned out, he'll be crab bait.
SAROPS
Pre-Flight
Got ya. I'd be curious to know if you get a FAR civil penalty does it go on your record, if you get the cert in the future.
I hope it's a story with a happy ending, the guy has remorse, and repays restitution for property damaged.
Tony
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Let'sgoflying!
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aww, da poor baby: ..Concern about the conditions of his confinement
Apache123
Line Up and Wait
Being put in Protective Custody? Hooboy, he may think he wants to hit the yard but if you've been in PC it's almost never safe to return to normal population.
He'll probably think he's an airplane after a few months in seg.