Banning drivers who don't live in your city?

Discussion in 'Hangar Talk' started by Tantalum, Dec 26, 2017.

  1. Tantalum

    Tantalum Pattern Altitude

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    Well, a town in New Jersey is about to ban people from driving through it if you don't live there. I love New Jersey, and I love regulations /s

    https://jalopnik.com/new-jersey-town-set-to-ban-drivers-who-dont-live-there-1821580916

    The town police chief had this to say, as quoted from the Times
    "Police chief Tom Rowe told the Times that Leonia had tried limited closures and warning navigation app providers, but that just foisted problems on to other streets"

    In actuality, I think this is more about forcing people to use the already congested toll roads so the gov't can make more toll money

    Note: while I can understand that having your small, quaint town overrun with morning commuters can be a hassle, I question what the better solution is, and the real motives behind this. Also worried if this will set some kind of precedent that other towns may follow, forcing more people onto congested toll roads. Simply banning people doesn't not seem like the most pragmatic solution IMHO


    What say you POA braintrust?
     
  2. coloradobluesky

    coloradobluesky En-Route

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    Free countries have free roads.
     
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  3. Ravioli

    Ravioli En-Route

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    Interesting concept.

    I can imagine banning drivers who don't have a destination in your city. Kind of like the old anti-cruising laws of old.

    It's easy to make the transition inconvenient as all hell by closing some streets and timing street lights to make it take longer for the "free" route.

    I know that the DFW transition road is the least congested way across that stretch but if you get through too fast you get a good sized toll.

    What I'm unable to grasp. What's the problem this township is addressing? Traffic? Speeding? Litter? Noise? Foreigners?

    I don't be getting it.
     
  4. Salty

    Salty Pattern Altitude

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    What's the saying? Be careful what you wish for. I hope they have a great economy and no retailers, hotels, bnbs, museums or any type of tourist spot. Or maybe they don't care that they produce nothing of use to anyone outside. Oh, and I guess they don't need deliveries from outside either. :rolleyes:

    Waze isn't the problem here. "Leadership" like that is the problem.
     
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  5. Justin M

    Justin M Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I live and drive in New Jersey. I have been routed off of the highway on to residential streets by GPS navigation in the car.

    I can see why residents would not want people on their streets who are a) anxious that they are late b) don't know the next turn c) anxious that they are not driving fast enough d) unfamiliar with local issues (schools, hospitals, parks, shopping districts) e) unfamiliar with the roads and the upcoming difficult turns, merges or intersections.

    The transients don't pay taxes to maintain the streets, enforce the laws, etc. Transients aren't motivated by resident's safety. The article seemed to focus on congestion, not safety.

    I am not passing judgement on the law or reasonableness of it. We live where we live in part so we don't have to be dependent upon personal motor craft. I use mass transit to get to most places (not including my local aerodrome) and sold my car, motorcycle and truck when I moved to my hometown (IE I don't have a dog in this hunt).
     
  6. Everskyward

    Everskyward Administrator Management Council Member

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    Here's a map of Leonia that probably makes the problem clearer. I think a better solution would be to barricade some of the streets so that it would not be a straight shot from one place to another. They could also reduce the speed limits. I believe Waze and other apps take that into consideration.

    Screen Shot 2017-12-26 at 13.47.59.png
     
  7. Salty

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    Smart leadership would find a way to profit from the extra traffic, rather than banning it.
     
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  8. Everskyward

    Everskyward Administrator Management Council Member

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    Such as?

    I can definitely see the point of view of the residents. I can't see any upside to increased traffic.
     
  9. Tantalum

    Tantalum Pattern Altitude

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    Seemed like traffic? From the quotes from the police chief it almost seems like he personally was annoyed about traffic, one of the quotes had him mentioning 250,000 wazers when he checks it in the AM

    Along with @Salty point though, there are probably more useful ways of addressing this problem.. if this town really is such a hot spot for commuter traffic (thanks to Waze) it seems like maybe there is a missed business opportunity in there somewhere

    As a concept it is interesting, but public roads are just that, public roads.. tolls and traffic are bad enough on the north east, seems like this is just another way to impose a fine on people and take money
     
  10. Tantalum

    Tantalum Pattern Altitude

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    Having more people through your town, or down a mainstreet, is not a bad thing. The increased traffic could mean more business for shop owners, coffee stops, restaurants, take out food, etc., and that more business could translate to higher commercial rent, etc. Seems like just banning people from entering your city is kind of the worst possible option

    Flip side/ people will be unaware of the ban, or simply not care and risk it. The town knows this will happen, but can at least make an extra $200/pop when they catch someone.. either that or it goes to the toll. Win/win for the government, but a lose lose for the private businesses and end consumer (the motorists)
     
  11. Ravioli

    Ravioli En-Route

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    Sorry I missed my chance at the anti-gps routing app rant.

    Rant == Started

    I hate that ****!

    And I hear it all too often. Oh... this road is congested... let's go 20 mile out of our way.

    I don't care if I drive slowly direct vs quickly on the roundabout.

    I also don't think sitting on a surface street waiting for lights, people parking, pedestrians and the like is more "relaxing" than just going direct on the regular route.

    It's just trading off inconveniences.

    Rant == Ended
     
  12. Everskyward

    Everskyward Administrator Management Council Member

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    I think the people driving through the town are commuters, who aren't that likely to stop. In any case, if they are going to stop, they need a place to park, which opens up another can of worms in small towns like these. More commerce would change the character of the town, which I assume is what they are trying to stop.
     
  13. Tantalum

    Tantalum Pattern Altitude

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    *Wonder if they could get more money in that case by bumping up the parking meter rates as opposed to the $200 fine?

    But I think you hit the nail on the head, they're trying to stop the character of the town from changing

    Historically speaking, most towns tend to prosper when they see an increase in traffic, and suffer when that same traffic goes away. From a capitalism and overall growth perspective it seems counter intuitive to outright ban people from entering your town. But maybe this town's objective is not about growth and prosperity, but about keeping its character. Personally I think it's a way to force more commuters onto the tolls and/or fine them
     
  14. Tantalum

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    A lot of the people at our company are obsessed with Waze.. I tried it and didn't like it. The algorithms behind GPS are still in their infancy. Maybe some day when all cars are self driving and they can communicate with each other then we can trust these things to give us the most efficient routing. I usually check Google Maps, get an idea for the traffic, and go the way I deem best (typically). I do find Google Maps though to be a step above Garmin, Tom Tom, Waze, and whatever BMW uses in theirs
     
  15. Sac Arrow

    Sac Arrow Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Sacramento did that for their mid-town district. It didn't really work.
     
  16. Everskyward

    Everskyward Administrator Management Council Member

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    I definitely think this is the case. This is not some poor, rural town. It's just across the river from New York City. The bridge on the map over the Hudson River is the George Washington Bridge.
     
  17. mscard88

    mscard88 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Close all the bridges into NYC a short distance away, that'll stop it.
     
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  18. Ravioli

    Ravioli En-Route

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    You're being too kind. I think the commuters are not White, Heterosexual, and Christian.

    The town is simply finding a way to discriminate based completely on the low cost vehicles it doesn't want to see on their lily white streets.

    Yah, that's it. This is blatant!
     
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  19. James331

    James331 Ejection Handle Pulled

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    I love it!!

    A great excuse for me to avoid that cesspool
     
  20. Tantalum

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    Do you recall what happened, IE, why it didn't work?
     
  21. Sac Arrow

    Sac Arrow Touchdown! Greaser!

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    They blocked some intersections and roundabouts in an attempt to keep people from taking a cross-town shortcut to the opposite freeway. It re-routed the city traffic slightly but it didn't seem to discourage people from doing it anyway. Me included.
     
  22. cowman

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    I wonder what the local business owners- especially gas stations and fast food places think of this.
     
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  23. Cap'n Jack

    Cap'n Jack Final Approach

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    Yep- I don't think there's any reason they can't set up their own tolls and set them high enough to lower the traffic. One precedent, that still exists today, is the Dingman's Ferry bridge. Privately owned bridge that charges a toll to get into NJ.
     
  24. Bill Jennings

    Bill Jennings Final Approach

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    C rap like this is one of the big reasons I moved from the north.
     
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  25. Lachlan

    Lachlan Pattern Altitude

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    I don’t know why anyone would want to go to NJ, but I can totally understand why they’re taking shortcuts to get out as fast as they can.
     
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  26. Rushie

    Rushie Cleared for Takeoff

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    What about friends coming over, your cleaning lady, the plumber, the person coming to pick up the furniture you sold them etc., have they really thought this through?
     
  27. mscard88

    mscard88 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Not the case in this example. This is NJ commuters going to work in the city every day.
     
  28. Ravioli

    Ravioli En-Route

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    They are trying to get out as fast as they can every morning.

    But they are trying to get in as fast as the can every evening.

    Make up your minds people!
     
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  29. Vince R

    Vince R Pre-Flight

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    Wait. If even a penny of Federal or State taxes go to build, maintain or otherwise support these roads, don’t they belong to all of us? If these politicians want to dictate who can use the roads, then they better be paying 100% of the cost.
     
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  30. paflyer

    paflyer Final Approach

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    I think it is baseless in law if the roads are public. If that burg takes one penny of state or federal funds for roads, some enterprising lawyer is going to cut Chief Obie a new one with a class action.
     
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  31. paflyer

    paflyer Final Approach

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    Hah! Great minds think alike.
     
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  32. Ravioli

    Ravioli En-Route

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    Shenangins!

    Who are you to dictate tax policy or discrimination? Those people's roads need to be free from people they don't want on them. They are the ones potentially paying property taxes and local taxes that have little to do with road construction and they are entitled to be heard. (better herded into a back alley, but what can we do?)

     
  33. paflyer

    paflyer Final Approach

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    There is an analogy with the FAA having dominion over the navigable airspace.
     
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  34. paflyer

    paflyer Final Approach

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    No, these are north jersey libs whose mental processes (so called) stop at "this feels good."
     
  35. Lachlan

    Lachlan Pattern Altitude

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    Who’s “Chief Obie”?
     
  36. mscard88

    mscard88 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I'm guessing Gov Christy, you know, lard ass?
     
  37. paflyer

    paflyer Final Approach

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    No, the yokel C of P.

    Chrispy Creme is out in a few days, to be replaced by a flaming, thinner D.
     
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  38. Lachlan

    Lachlan Pattern Altitude

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    Because all that extra traffic is really good for the roads and doesn’t cause accelerated wear, right? Right...
     
  39. Lachlan

    Lachlan Pattern Altitude

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    Do you think the goofball who typed “Chief Obie” was trying to say ‘Opie’ like the kid (not a cop, but a kid) from the Andy Griffith show? ;) Maybe it was the Andy Griffin show? Let’s just make stuff up until people think we know what we’re talking about.
     
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  40. Tantalum

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    Sure it does, but the solution then is to ban people from using public roads? The Jalopnik comments from the link I posted has some interesting comments on there, I was surprised at how civil and (relatively) informative it was/is