Ballooning and separation

LongRoadBob

LongRoadBob

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Learning about right of way, separation, etc. and was just wondering how it actually works with ballooning. My wife and I took a balloon ride many years ago in the Netherlands and as I recall we travelled a fair distance with it. Just guessing but I think we were probably around 800 feet AGL or so, maybe more.

So I guess also if I were a pilot then, there under have been a NOTAM regarding this posted? But balloons are following the wind, so how typically do they warn pilots typically in a NOTAM about this activity?

Does th airspace become restricted for pilots?
 
I don't have a lighter than air cert, but I did drive chase for a while. Because balloons fly so low (typically under 500') they aren't at the altitudes which airplanes fly. Plus they're really, really big.

Most of the guys I knew all carried aviation radios so if they ever got near an uncontrolled airport, they would make advisories like any other aircraft. Well... not exactly like any other aircraft.

The guy I drove chase for actually flew down the length of Dobbins AFB in Marietta, GA at about 100'. There's only so much you can do when your directional control consists of changing altitudes. :D
 
I went flying last week and I noticed a balloon before my preflight. I took note of the area it was in and once i took off i couldnt find it so I figured as long as I stay upwind of were I saw it last I probably wouldn't hit it.

I don't think they had a radio since I called out multiple times for a hot air balloon with no response. Kinda wierd something so big just disappeared. It was pretty low so a good possibility it was landing.

Interesting fact, up here at lake Tahoe since the lake is 22 miles long, early in the day a company launches a hot air balloon off a large pontoon boat, and when they land the boat gets under the hot air balloon and catches it..interesting to see the first time
 
LongRoadBob said:
Learning about right of way, separation, etc. and was just wondering how it actually works with ballooning. My wife and I took a balloon ride many years ago in the Netherlands and as I recall we travelled a fair distance with it. Just guessing but I think we were probably around 800 feet AGL or so, maybe more.
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Balloons always have the right of way over other aircraft, since they are the least maneuverable.

Hot air balloons typically will always remain in Class G or E airspace and fly on days that are very still with little to no wind. Airspace does not become restricted, its just see and avoid (VFR).
 
Years ago I was flying out of Spearfish, SD. Renting from the FBO at the time, preflight, taxi, on TO a balloon drifted over the end off the runway. Quick right hand turn to avoid the balloon. Upon returning I asked the FDO why they did not warn me off balloon activity. They said the guys that fly them never report when they are flying.

I made the regular radio calls, taxi for rwy X, departing rwy X, never heard a word. I could believe I missed the balloon when I did my scans before TO. That was in the mid 90's, maybe handhelds were to expensive at the time or if he had one maybe it was to noisy for him to hear my calls?

I sure took a good long look around after that, never saw another balloon after that, but I moved to Alaska shortly after my encounter..:)
 
LongRoadBob said:
Learning about right of way, separation, etc. and was just wondering how it actually works with ballooning.
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Since hot air balloons have no way to control direction of flight they have the right of way in all airspace. All others in the air are responsible for seeing and avoiding them.
 
citizen5000 said:
Since hot air balloons have no way to control direction of flight they have the right of way in all airspace. All others in the air are responsible for seeing and avoiding them.
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Refer to post 5. Already stated.
 
Ryanb said:
Balloons always have the right of way over other aircraft, since they are the least maneuverable.

Hot air balloons typically will always remain in Class G or E airspace and fly on days that are very still with little to no wind. Airspace does not become restricted, its just see and avoid (VFR).
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Thanks. Yeah, some of the rules just make perfect sense to me, like the general right of way rules when powered aircraft meet, and rules where sailplanes, balloons, have to have right of way as they don't have the same maneuverability as powered aircraft.

Though I have to admit, unless I have it wrong, and I don't think I do, a powered aircraft in an emergency situation has right of way over even balloons, though I can't figure out just how a balloon would 1) know (unless equipped with radio) and 2) be able to do very much to get out of the way...at least quickly.

Your last paragraph though summed it all up pretty well for me, thanks.
 
citizen5000 said:
Since hot air balloons have no way to control direction of flight they have the right of way in all airspace. All others in the air are responsible for seeing and avoiding them.
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As I mention, except when an airplane has declared an emergency.
 
donjohnston said:
I don't have a lighter than air cert, but I did drive chase for a while. Because balloons fly so low (typically under 500') they aren't at the altitudes which airplanes fly. Plus they're really, really big.

Most of the guys I knew all carried aviation radios so if they ever got near an uncontrolled airport, they would make advisories like any other aircraft. Well... not exactly like any other aircraft.

The guy I drove chase for actually flew down the length of Dobbins AFB in Marietta, GA at about 100'. There's only so much you can do when your directional control consists of changing altitudes. :D
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They absolutely fly much higher than 500' AGL out here in Albuquerque.
 
LongRoadBob said:
As I mention, except when an airplane has declared an emergency.
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Sure, that may be the official rule, but it's irrelevant in practice. So you have an engine failure, you're coming in to land, and there's a balloon in the way. What are you going to do, keep going straight and hope the balloon moves out of your way? Not realistic, even if they have a radio. It's not like they climb or descend immediately. So, for practical purposes, the rule doesn't matter.

I'd love to read about an enforcement action where a balloon pilot was cited for not giving way to a powered aircraft in an emergency!
 
abqtj said:
They absolutely fly much higher than 500' AGL out here in Albuquerque.
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And around here. Usually north of town, east of Boulder but sometimes down south. Easy enough to avoid them. I'm of the opinion that part of their experience is quiet so I stay well away from them.
 
abqtj said:
They absolutely fly much higher than 500' AGL out here in Albuquerque.
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And Red Rock Park near Gallup.

But the balloons here are usually back on the ground before most people wake up.
 
Balloons scare the hell out of me. They don't show up on radar, they aren't talking to anyone, they fly generally when the sun is low, they don't have strobes, and they don't move fast enough to stand out from the ground clutter.
 
abqtj said:
They absolutely fly much higher than 500' AGL out here in Albuquerque.
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The guy I crewed for in the 70s flew up and over the Sandias occasionally. Once when I was driving the chase vehicle he called and said they had gotten hung in the trees north of Sandia Crest. They had to walk out.

A few days later a couple of his employees at the Sandia Peak Tramway hiked up to the balloon, put it in the bag. A helicopter was called to lift it out.

When the helicopter was nearing Sandia Heights to drop it in the tramway parking lot the hook failed and the balloon and basket fell from around 900' agl.

He had to buy another balloon. :D
 
3393RP said:
The guy I crewed for in the 70s flew up and over the Sandias occasionally. Once when I was driving the chase vehicle he called and said they had gotten hung in the trees north of Sandia Crest. They had to walk out.

A few days later a couple of his employees at the Sandia Peak Tramway hiked up to the balloon, put it in the bag. A helicopter was called to lift it out.

When the helicopter was nearing Sandia Heights to drop it in the tramway parking lot the hook failed and the balloon and basket fell from around 900' agl.

He had to buy another balloon. :D
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WHOA! I bet that was an adventure and a half!
 
Fortunately not for me. My brother was in the balloon too, it took them five hours to reach Highway 14. :D
 
Ryanb said:
Balloons always have the right of way over other aircraft, since they are the least maneuverable.
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Who has the right of way: a hot air balloon turning left crosswind or a Cirrus under canopy who already declared on the radio? (confused)
 
Ryanb said:
Balloons always have the right of way over other aircraft, since they are the least maneuverable.
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Untrue. You may wish to refresh your understanding of 91.113.
 
Lachlan said:
Who has the right of way: a hot air balloon turning left crosswind or a Cirrus under canopy who already declared on the radio? (confused)
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Aircraft in distress have the right of way over all. Category preference only refers to converging aircraft. Aircraft landing (of any category) also have right of way over balloons (not landing).
 
flyingron said:
Aircraft in distress have the right of way over all. Category preference only refers to converging aircraft. Aircraft landing (of any category) also have right of way over balloons (not landing).
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The Cirrus could be thermaling-paragliding and the balloon driver could have diarrhea. Now who has an emergency?
 
flyingron said:
Untrue. You may wish to refresh your understanding of 91.113.
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Is true. We were not talking about aircraft in distress, at the time of that post Ron. Under normal operations, balloons always have the ROW.

Part (D) covers Converging Aircraft:

(1) A balloon has the right-of-way over any other category of aircraft.

You had me thinking they changed a reg. Phew!:D
 
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Ryanb said:
Is true. We were not talking about aircraft in distress, at the time of that post Ron. Under normal operations, balloons always have the ROW.

Part (D) covers Converging Aircraft:

(1) A balloon has the right-of-way over any other category of aircraft.

You had me thinking they changed a reg. Phew!:D
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You missed LANDING as well. Landing traffic has priority over traffic not landing. While a balloon might not have directional control, it has reasonable altitude control.

In general, category preferences do not apply aircraft overtaking (doubtful a balloon will overtake anybody) or converging head-on.
 
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