Balloon IFR

brien23

brien23

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Brien
Can't find anything on IFR for a hot air balloon. Night flight requires lights hanging down from the balloon. Gliders can go IFR why not Balloon's with a battery powered transponder? And what instruments would be required other than the normal balloon instruments? And what kind of clearance would someone ask for like KBVS direct 5nm North, not sure how gliders ask for clearance.
 
brien23 said:
Can't find anything on IFR for a hot air balloon. Night flight requires lights hanging down from the balloon. Gliders can go IFR why not Balloon's with a battery powered transponder? And what instruments would be required other than the normal balloon instruments? And what kind of clearance would someone ask for like KBVS direct 5nm North, not sure how gliders ask for clearance.
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Wow, learn something new every day, had no idea.
 
Are you talking about IFR in IMC? I don't think gliders can fly under IFR add a general rule. Gliders can fly in Class A in a wave window specifically set aside for them. But I assume (could be wrong, and I'm sure someone will correct me) that any glider certified for IFR would be a motor glider.
 
61.65 states (1) Hold at least a private pilot certificate with an airplane, helicopter, or powered-lift rating appropriate to the instrument rating sought;

Does this not mean you can only have an instrument rating for an airplane, helicopter, or powered lift.

So not a glider or hot air balloon. A glider would not be able to maintain an assigned altitude or airspeed. That's just silly!
 
The regs are full of special cases for IFR in gliders. Everything else follows the general "aircraft" rules.

As for ratings, airplanes, helicopters, and powered lift have their own instrument rating. Gliders use the airplane instrument rating. Airships use a commercial pilot certificate alone. An ATP (airplane, rotorcraft, powered lift) is good for instrument privs too.

There's no balloon IFR nor IFR in weight shift or powered parachute categories.
 
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brien23 said:
Can't find anything on IFR for a hot air balloon. Night flight requires lights hanging down from the balloon. Gliders can go IFR why not Balloon's with a battery powered transponder? And what instruments would be required other than the normal balloon instruments? And what kind of clearance would someone ask for like KBVS direct 5nm North, not sure how gliders ask for clearance.
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How does an IFR balloon comply with routes or headings in an IFR clearance?
 
Glider IFR is being done on a semi regular basis using block altitudes running up and down the Sierra's for record flights(2-3,000kms.) No idea about balloon IFR but the trans-oceanic records must have had some permission to float about the clouds.
 
roncachamp said:
Those who cannot accept an IFR clearance with a route cannot accept an IFR clearance.
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26, 2005 Vijaypat Singhania set the world altitude record for highest hot air balloon flight, reaching 21,027 m (68,986 ft). Hot air balloon's are capable of class A airspace so again IFR clearance?
 
brien23 said:
26, 2005 Vijaypat Singhania set the world altitude record for highest hot air balloon flight, reaching 21,027 m (68,986 ft). Hot air balloon's are capable of class A airspace so again IFR clearance?
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It was done in Mumbai.
 
Flying a balloon in IMC conditions is a really poor idea. In 2010 the loss of a close friend while flying a balloon over the Adriatic Sea in rapidly deteriorating IMC is all the example needed.
 
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From the FAA Balloon Flying Handbook...

Class A airspace is generally the airspace from 18,000 feet
MSL up to and including FL 600, including the airspace
overlying the waters within 12 NM of the coast of the 48
contiguous states and Alaska. Unless otherwise authorized,
all operations in Class A airspace are conducted under IFR.
For that reason, balloons do not utilize the Class A airspace,
unless operated on a waiver or are conducting some special
operation, such as a record attempt.
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Somedudeintn said:
From the FAA Balloon Flying Handbook...
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The OP was what instruments would be required other than the normal balloon instruments? And what kind of clearance would someone ask for. Not sure how we got on flying hard IFR in a balloon.
 
brien23 said:
Can't find anything on IFR for a hot air balloon. Night flight requires lights hanging down from the balloon. Gliders can go IFR why not Balloon's with a battery powered transponder?
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The instrument question was one of many after the statement that you couldn't find anything about ifr in a balloon. We supplied you with some information about ifr in a balloon.

I agree that your other question about instruments hasn't been answered but since it requires a waiver from the FAA I don't think there would be anything spelled out in a reg. The instruments required would be what the FAA deems appropriate to grant you the waiver into Class A.
 
Also Felix's Redbull 'space' jump and the Google guy's higher jump the following year. Solidly into class A airspace methinks.
 
The way a balloon gets into class A is the same way most gliders get into class A. They get a waiver. All falls into the "authorized by the administrator" category.

Again, regardless of what the practical matter is for navigating in IMC with a balloon, they are barred because there's no provision in 61.3(e) for their pilot in command to operate under IFR or in less than VMC.
 
flyingron said:
The way a balloon gets into class A is the same way most gliders get into class A. They get a waiver. All falls into the "authorized by the administrator" category.

Again, regardless of what the practical matter is for navigating in IMC with a balloon, they are barred because there's no provision in 61.3(e) for their pilot in command to operate under IFR or in less than VMC.
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Did any of the trans oceanic/round the world balloon attempts fly in IMC? I would think they must have, whether they wanted to or not.
 
brien23 said:
The Balloon IFR question in not about flying high or low IFR routes or instrument approaches it is about clearance into class A airspace.
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Maybe you should be asking about how to get permission to operate VFR in Class A. That's how gliders do it. From the Glider Handbook:
Within the continental United States, Class A airspace lies
between 18,000 and 60,000 feet MSL (flight level (FL) 180
to FL 600). Generally, flights in Class A airspace must be
conducted under instrument flight rules (IFR). However,
several clubs and glider operations have established so-called
wave windows. These are special areas, arranged in agreement
with air traffic control (ATC), in which gliders are allowed to
operate above 18,000 feet MSL under visual flight rules (VFR)
operations. Wave windows have very specific boundaries.
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I've still not seen anything that leads me to believe non-motor gliders are generally allowed to operate under IFR.
 
Phoenix said:
Also Felix's Redbull 'space' jump and the Google guy's higher jump the following year. Solidly into class A airspace methinks.
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THROUGH Class A actually, both up and down, they were well above the upper boundary.
 
Lindberg said:
Maybe you should be asking about how to get permission to operate VFR in Class A. That's how gliders do it. From the Glider Handbook:


I've still not seen anything that leads me to believe non-motor gliders are generally allowed to operate under IFR.
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Wave windows are for VFR only pilots in VFR equipped gliders to go up and down(and stay in the lateral limits.) Pure gliders on IFR flight plans are flown cross country with block altitudes by IFR-Airplane rated glider pilots in IFR equipped(not to the airplane rules, not sure if it is to the type certificate or some other standard) gliders. Totally different animal.
 
Any motor gliders / self launchers IFR certified?

(Somehow I doubt it, but curiosity has gotten the best of me after thinking about that...)
 
I'd try it (balloon into imc) but I'd be afraid of getting disoriented and coming out of the cloud up-sidedown. Oh, wait - the balloon would cushion the landing, never mind.
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
I'd try it (balloon into imc) but I'd be afraid of getting disoriented and coming out of the cloud up-sidedown. Oh, wait - the balloon would cushion the landing, never mind.
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You could always pull the chute if things got hairy. :)
 
bavreze said:
does that mean I can't fly ifr in a wingsuit? :)
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Wingsuits are covered by part 105. No going into clouds or operating in less visibility or cloud clearance that is roughly the same as basic (airplane) VFR.
 
Phoenix said:
Wave windows are for VFR only pilots in VFR equipped gliders to go up and down(and stay in the lateral limits.)
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Right. That's what I said.
Pure gliders on IFR flight plans are flown cross country with block altitudes by IFR-Airplane rated glider pilots in IFR equipped(not to the airplane rules, not sure if it is to the type certificate or some other standard) gliders. Totally different animal.
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How do they comply with 91.167, 91.175, 91.177?
 
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