Back in the saddle!

[DaleB]

Well, after a few days of wx-induced delays, I finally got in a training flight today. Hey, it's only been 9-1/2 years since my last flight! No matter that no CFI who has ever flown with me is still a CFI... and who cares if half the planes I have flown are no longer flying?

So I preflighted N5533F, tucked my new CFI (John) into the right seat and off we went. I was able to taxi much better than I remembered doing before. This was my first time flying from a tower controlled airport -- Eppley (KOMA) instead of Millard (KMLE) where I've flown before, so I got to put my ground school self-study knowledge to work. We got taxi clearance and I was able to follow the signs and tell John (before he asked) where we'd be stopping, and why. Cleared for 14L, and up we went... after a little veering and white knuckles. Let's say it was not my smoothest takeoff, and that stall warning light will definitely get your attention, but we got off the ground and out of the area.

Weather was not the best. 6 mile vis, overcast at 3500 AGL so we stayed under 3000 (2000 or so AGL). Flew up to a practice area and did some basic maneuvers, and after getting over the initial jitters I was pretty comfortable. I had forgotten how much flying a Cherokee feels like piloting a soda can in the ocean. Did OK, though, especially holding altitude in turns and such. The ceiling was dropping and visibility was getting noticeably shorter, so we headed back. John took the yoke on base because by now the crosswind was a bit more than he thought I was ready for.

I have two previous training flights in the log book -- one from 1999, and one in 2002. Hopefully now that some of the pre-emptive priorities like kids are not as major a factor, I'll be able to get scheduled regularly and finish up soon. John's feedback during the post-flight debrief was that he thought I'd be ready to solo in a pretty short time. On the next flight we'll likely go up to Blair (KBTA) and do some touch-and-gos.

While I was not able to meet my goal of doing an unassisted landing on today's flight, at least I was prepared for the sight picture on approach and knew what to expect -- John just felt that it wasn't a good day for me to make my first landing. The other two times I lost confidence on final and asked the CFI to do it. I hadn't done an approach in a small plane before; airliners come in with a significantly nose-high attitude, and it kind of freaked me out to point the nose at the runway and fly it into the ground. This time I was ready for it, and even was able to watch the PAPI lights and know we were a little low and needed power. But... I'm confident I'll be able to bring it in all the way on the next flight.

Date: 2/9/12
Aircraft: N5533F
This flight: 0.9 Total: 2.7

(Yeah, that's 2.7 hours in 12 years. At this rate I either need to step it up, or plan my checkride for 2189.)

 

[denverpilot]

Welcome back! Sounds like your CFI understands it's important to manage your confidence, and you had a good flight!

 

[SCCutler]

What a great feeling, to get back in the sky. If you ever feel your motivation drooping, drop by - we're here for you!

 

[DaleB]

The only time my motivation faltered was about 200' AGL during the climb out. For about half a minute I questioned whether I could really do this. Hint: Don't pick a day with marginal weather for your first flight in 10 years. It felt pretty spooky. By the time we made our turn North for the training area I was over it, and it only got better from there. I found myself only glancing at the panel occasionally to check the altimeter and engine gauges, and was using the horizon... well, what there was of it, with the visibility we had... to fly.

 

[Everskyward]

Good for you! Glad you had a good time.

 

[Jim Logajan]

The only time my motivation faltered was about 200' AGL during the climb out. For about half a minute I questioned whether I could really do this. Hint: Don't pick a day with marginal weather for your first flight in 10 years. It felt pretty spooky. By the time we made our turn North for the training area I was over it, and it only got better from there. I found myself only glancing at the panel occasionally to check the altimeter and engine gauges, and was using the horizon... well, what there was of it, with the visibility we had... to fly.

My CFI called them "Mister Toad's Wild Ride" flights. No need for the "You must be this tall" to get on this ride restrictions; and no E-Ticket needed. :wink2:

 

[CMTowner]

Welcome back Dale. I hope to see posts of your progress. Good luck and have fun.

 

[DaleB]

We flew again today. When we got to 33F I got the checklist and started the preflight. #1... Master switch ON. Oops. The last person to fly it had left the master on, and the plane was stone dead. Not wanting to hand prop it (no way I'm doing it) we grabbed another Cherokee 140, 8FL that the chief pilot was about to fly to North Omaha (3NO) for some maintenance on the front gear. All good on preflight and runup, I made the radio calls to Clearance, Ground & Tower (poorly). I made a good takeoff and we turned North.

John told me he would make the landing at 3NO, because the runway is short, narrow and has trees pretty close in. After getting air added to the front strut I taxied back down and did a short field takeoff. The hop to Blair (BTA) only took a few minutes. We crossed midfield and I made my FIRST EVER unassisted landing -- woohoo! It was actually pretty good, and I remembered to raise the flaps before using the brakes (no toe brakes in this bird). We did three more normal takeoffs and landings. There was a light crosswind, so I was slipping in with right aileron and left rudder.

By the time we did our last takeoff the sun was going down, we couldn't get the panel lights on and John's headset was not working, so we headed back to OMA. I made a halfway decent landing on 14L and we taxied back. So, I went from zero to four unassisted landings, did some radio work, a short field takeoff, pattern flying and gained a ton of confidence.

At one point on my previous flight I was wondering if I had made a mistake, and if I'd be able to do this thing I've dreamed of since I can remember. After today there is no doubt in my mind. I can, I will, and it's just going to get better. Now I need to practice comms and memorize checklists. John wants me to be able to do the flows from memory and just use the checklist to verify.

Date: 2/14/12
Aircraft: N698FL
This flight: 1.5. Total: 4.2

 

[denverpilot]

Fun stuff.

 

[Tracey]

At one point on my previous flight I was wondering if I had made a mistake, and if I'd be able to do this thing I've dreamed of since I can remember. After today there is no doubt in my mind. I can, I will, and it's just going to get better.

You will probably vacillate between these two states during your training... at least I did (and do). But the ultimate outcome will be that you can and you will and yes, it will keep getting better!

Have fun!

 

[DaleB]

Having actually put the bird down, repeatedly, safely, and without the CFI having to grab the yoke or frantically mash at the rudder pedals has been a huge, incredible boost. We're going up again tomorrow afternoon. It was supposed to be today, but work interfered. I'm also liking the longer flights, an hour really isn't enough in my opinion.

 

[DaleB]

Today's flight was again in the slightly newer Cherokee Flight Liner. This time John sent me out to do the preflight, which was uneventful other than a couple of minor issues. The nose gear strut was low again, and we have a stall warning light but no horn. I tried out my new kneeboard and a nice little communication sheet (from Sporty's) that helps me remember all of the clearance, ground, towe, and departure/approach stuff. I did all of the radio work during taxi & takeoff, and did it reasonably well. We took off from a different direction this time -- 32R instead of 14L. Climb and departure were smooth and uneventful.

We did slow flight; I made a smooth 360 turn at MCAS with the stall warning light nagging at me the whole way around. Altitude hold wasn't perfect, but I did't lose more than about 150 feet. From there we did power on and power off stalls, then headed to BTA (using the sectional to determine pattern altitude and CTAF) for some T&G. Or we would have, except that it was getting late and someone had the plane scheduled, so after one landing we high-tailed it back to OMA. ATC had us do some maneuvering to stay out of the way of departing and arriving traffic, and I got a little turned around and had to think hard about which way we were heading and which way the runway ran. We covered that with the sectional after we lended. John handled the radios on the way in while I flew, and while I wouldn't call the landing a "greaser" it was a lot better than the rather abrupt flop I had subjected the poor plane to at BTA a few minutes earlier.

All in all I felt a lot more at ease during most phases of the flight than ever. My takeoffs are a lot better, with almost no wandering off the centerline. I'll need some more practice with stalls just to make the recovery smooth and automatic. Landings are getting better, I just need to work on timing the flare better. The first landing today was a little abrupt, I flared too early and dropped in from a foot or so up. Hey, maybe I can get the main gear struts to match the nose. But I was happy that coming into OMA I was able to make corections to get and keep us on the glide path, while staying aligned with the runway centerline.

Date: 2/17/12
Aircraft: N698FL
This flight: 1.7 Total: 5.9

 

[DaleB]

Today I flew with a new CFI, since John is still out of town for a couple days yet. Jerome and I had to wait a while for the plane to return, during which time Jerome explained the ground reference maneuvers we'd be doing. Jerome handled radios today, which was a bit of a relief. I hadn't been up in over 2 weeks, and I was definitely feeling it. Took a few minutes in the air for me to get comfortable again, but even that was encouraging -- we were getting bounced around quite a bit, and it wasn't bothering me. I just held the heading dead on and watched my altitude.

After a smooth takeoff on 32R we turned east toward the practice area past Traynor, IA. This was a new place for me, we'd been flying up by Blair (KBTA) but no matter. Jerome demonstrated each of the maneuvers, then I tried my hand at them. Pretty sloppy on the first couple attempts! I was losing altitude (at times 300' or more) and getting blown off center badly. Once I got the airplane properly trimmed and set up, though, and figured out what I was doing wrong, I got a lot better. The last pylon figure 8 was not too terrible -- I was only off by about a hundred yards or so at the end, and we did have some winds to deal with. By the time we were ready to head back I was feeling much more confident -- and was also maintaining altitude within 50' all the way around.

The plane has an older Bendix non moving map GPS, so Jerome showed me how to use it to get the heading and distance back home. We were cleared direct and did a straight in approach, something new for me. I have to say that, aside from drifting off to the right of the center line, it was my best landing yet -- I greased it in nice and smooth with the stall horn wailing for the last foot or so, and got slowed down quickly enough to make the first taxiway. All in all a very productive flight.

Date: 3/8/12
Aircraft: N5533F
This flight: 1.6 Total: 7.5

 

[MBDiagMan]

Welcome back to flying and congratulations for all the flights.

I had a 20 year lag between flight training phases. The second time I kept at it until I got my private. Just keep doing it and you will be a certificated Private Pilot before you know it!

Good luck,

 

[DaleB]

Our youngest son graduates college May 19th. I'm hoping to fly myself and my wife out there -- it's only 143 SM, it would make for a nice Saturday morning flight. That would mean 3-4 hours a week minimum of flying, don't know if I can maintain that or not with my work schedule, but I'm going to try.

 

[Ghery]

8s on pylons? That's a commercial ticket maneuver. Good practice, however. Sounds like you're making progress and having fun. Keep it up. "We're all counting on you."

 

[MBDiagMan]

Our youngest son graduates college May 19th. I'm hoping to fly myself and my wife out there -- it's only 143 SM, it would make for a nice Saturday morning flight. That would mean 3-4 hours a week minimum of flying, don't know if I can maintain that or not with my work schedule, but I'm going to try.

Sounds like a great goal. Your son graduates on my birthday.

There are plenty of unforeseen delays in flight training, so plan on more than that per week. Weather among other things will keep you out of the air more than you think.

Keep flying, studying and posting for us so we can keep up.

Go get 'em!

 

[DaleB]

Ghery -- Yeah, when he said "ground reference maneuvers" I was expecting square courses around section lines. Nope! All turns. 8's across a road, pylon 8's, turns around a point. Gotta wonder what those farmers think about the small planes circling their houses and stuff. I certainly found it to be challenging; didn't get GOOD at it, but I did get a lot BETTER by the time we were done.

Doc -- I'm hoping to solo before too long -- then I can get in more hours, since I can fly to my own endurance instead of having to work around CFI schedules as much. Once they have their other Cherokee out of maintenance it will get easier too. Having my ticket by then is kind of a "stretch goal", I'm not going to fixate on it, but it sure would be nice. But I'm trying to schedule 3 sessions a week now, if not more. I don't like flying for an hour at a time, I'd rather go 1.5 to 2.

So until my next session I'm going to work on practicing radio procedures, and run through the takeoff and descent checklists until I can do them perfectly from memory. Last night I realized I had made a few mistakes that the instructor never pointed out, and I didn't catch them until long after the fact. I missed turning the boost pump on before takeoff, and forgot carb heat on descent. If I hadn't let 2 weeks go by I would not have missed those items. Can't let that happen again.

 

[MBDiagMan]

Yes, once you solo, things will go faster.

My first instructor stuck to one hour sessions. My last instructor would fly with me as long as I was fresh enough to keep flying. Good thing too, because it was TOUGH scheduling time with him.

If you do go past one hour lessons, throw in the towel when you get tired so that you don't develop any bad habits.

Good luck,

 

[DaleB]

So far I've ended each flight thinking I could have done another half hour or hour. I can see why the instructors don't, though. Take yesterday as an example. I learned a LOT, and practiced until I wasn't horrible at it. I need more practice, but I don't need the CFI sitting there while I do it... I know a good maneuver from a crap one, and I know what I'm doing wrong when I do it. I just need to practice and get a better "feel" for wind corrections. So for instructional purposes, we were good. Given the mental bludgeoning, I don't know that I could have done a lot more learning than we did. It's not like we could have spent another hour doing new stuff like, for example, unusual attitudes or whatever. So an hour and a half was good. But once I solo, I can see doing much longer flights.

I think I'm going to offer to spend an extra half hour, off the clock, just doing some cleaning and polishing. Those rental trainers are filthy. I've got a big dispenser of antiseptic cleaning wipes and a garbage bag in my flight bag. That windshield could use an hour or two of quality time with a bottle of Novus and a polishing bonnet, too.

 

[DaleB]

Today we only logged half an hour. The plan was to stay in the pattern and do a few touch & gos, with me doing all of the radio work. The first takeoff was OK; I got clearance and taxi instructions, contacted tower, we lined up and off we went -- slight crosswind from the right on runway 14L. We made one circuit and did a t&g on 14L, my first one -- no sweat.

So we went around, got lined up, we were over the numbers when John said we were going to go around (just so I'd know how). Full throttle, carb heat off, positive climb, flaps up. No sweat, climb back up and make the left turn for crosswind and downwind. We were on the downwind leg when Tower said to keep it close in, there was a Citation on 4 mile final and we were #1. Or were we #2? We called back and asked... "33F, you were #1 but that's not going to work. Turn left and cross mid-field, enter right downwind for 14L." OK, fine... no problem. It felt a little odd overflying the airport at midfield, and a right-hand pattern was new for me. Gotta work to get a view of the runway on that base turn! Now I know how Cessna pilots feel. It was also a little weird flying past 14R to get to 14L.

By this time the wind had shifted and picked up significantly. We'd make one last landing, full stop, and call it a day. Now the wind was 20K or more from 180, and we're still using 14L. I had the right wing low, plenty of left rudder... John doesn't like to just crab in for a crosswind landing; he wants to see a slip. His way of thinking is, you can crab in when there's too much crosswind for the airplane to safely land. If you're carrying a whole lot of rudder and aileron and are still getting blown off the centerline, well, maybe you shouldn't land. I can see his point. Anyway, I was doing pretty well... using the PAPI lights, keeping the nose down, staying lined up as much as I could. Crossed the numbers still carrying a lot of power, or so I thought. I started to flare a little high (as I often do, I'm working on that) and made the mistake of pulling power back a couple hundred RPM. We ballooned, I didn't get on the throttle fast enough, John took it and got us on the ground with only a minor thump. I was actually just starting to shove the throttle in and was going to go around when he said, "My airplane".

I know what I did wrong, and I know the only way to avoid it is practice. I need a lot more practice landing. Still, the plane -- and I -- will fly again. It was a ton of learning for such a short flight.

Date: 3/13/12
Aircraft: N5533F
This flight: .5 Total: 8

 

[DaleB]

Another day, another flight. Found a cracked control yoke on the first plane during preflight, so we took the other one. I'm either getting good at breaking stuff, or just getting good at finding broken stuff during preflight.

We did cross-wind takeoffs and landings and traffic pattern work. Lots of traffic pattern work, and I did all of the radio work with ATC and in the pattern at the uncontrolled field where we were practicing. My landings generally sucked... BUT... I still feel like I accomplished some things.

• I recognized that I was way too close in on the first one, having made my 45 into the downwind leg a little late. Made a downwind-final 180, managed to get us lined up and landed. The landing was nothing to brag about, but salvaging the approach got me an "attaboy".
• I recognized, in plenty of time, that one was beyond saving. I was too high and too slow. Did a go-around... now if I can just remember not to pull those flaps ALL the way up in one shot. Oops. Lesson learned.
• Figured out, I think, where and why my final was a little shallow. The last one was pretty good, right up to the flare (which still wasn't horrible).
• Got a LOT more comfortable with ATC and managing the frequencies. It's nice to have two flip-flop COM radios, reduces the knob twisting somewhat.

I'm on the schedule again for tomorrow afternoon. We'll see if I can slip out of work and do it or if I'll have to reschedule. Right now my poor old brain feels like mush. And Cherokee does get bloody hot on the ground. But, we'll be doing more stalls and doing emergency procedures, since I'll need to cover that before solo. Oh, and I got me medical this morning -- so I'm officially a "real" student pilot.



Date: 3/14/12
Aircraft: N689FL
This flight: 1.4 Total: 9.4

 

[jesse]

Sounds like you're moving right along. It's a good time of the year. I soloed two students within the last week or so.

One of them, right after he soloed:

 

[earl72]

Sounds like you're moving right along. It's a good time of the year. I soloed two students within the last week or so.

One of them, right after he soloed:

did you cut his shirt tail? i still have mine hanging on my wall (22years and counting)

 

[MBDiagMan]

Sounds like you are indeed getting in lots of hours Dale!

It also sounds like you're approaching it with the right attitude. You are doing all sorts of things that aren't perfect, but that's just part of the learning process. The important thing is that you are learning from your mistakes and moving forward.

Keep at it!

 

[jesse]

did you cut his shirt tail? i still have mine hanging on my wall (22years and counting)

No. I wouldn't have appreciated someone cutting my shirt tail, so I don't do it to my students. I figure the great feeling of soloing plus a few pictures I take and send to them is the way to go.

Maybe I'm just a grumpy old man

 

[Swampfox201]

No. I wouldn't have appreciated someone cutting my shirt tail, so I don't do it to my students. I figure the great feeling of soloing plus a few pictures I take and send to them is the way to go.

Maybe I'm just a grumpy old man

We cut shirt tails and then were expected to draw a picture on them to mark the occasion. Art was not my thing. Most of my students probably threw it away because the drawing was so bad.

 

[denverpilot]

I never had my tail cut. I think my CFI knew I was too broke back then to buy another shirt!

 

[MBDiagMan]

I still have my shirt tail that was cut in 1990. I wouldn't take 10 hours worth of Avgas for it.

 

[Tracey]

I was looking forward to the shirt tail (is that one word?) cutting. I wanted in on that tradition. (I wore 2 tee shirts that day).

 

[Swampfox201]

I was looking forward to the shirt tail (is that one word?) cutting. I wanted in on that tradition. (I wore 2 tee shirts that day).

2??? Party pooper!

 

[DaleB]

Today we covered a lot of new ground. Working in the practice area west of Blair, we started out with emergency procedures and engine failure. We had some good discussions about the flow of trying an engine restart and picking out a good field when there’s no flat spots within range. I felt like I was well prepared.

After a few of simulated engine-out emergency landings (down to about 500′ AGL) we moved on to flight by reference to instruments. John had me under the hood with my head down while he did some maneuvers, which got me closer to motion sickness than I’ve been in a long time. I did some turns and level flight by instrument reference only… and I have to admit, it was much more difficult than I expected it to be. Then we did a couple of unusual attitude recoveries, which pushed me closer to rendering the airplane incapable of ever being flown again (you DO NOT want to be anywhere near if I ever actually do puke, it’s a seismic event). I’m going to have to be more prepared for the vertigo and motion sickness next time.

We ended up further north than we planned, and got a call from Omaha tower asking where we planned to go since we were getting close to the nuke plant… not a good idea. We headed back and did the x-wind landing, which was certainly not perfect but I’m getting closer to finding the groove.

There was a little fun taxiing, both departing and arriving. On the departure Ground cleared us to taxi via L2 and L, then cleared a Bonanza that had just landed to taxi to the FBO via… L2. I believe it was the second time I have been nose to nose with the same Bonanza, thankfully neither time were my fault. Anyway, we both recognized what was going on, both stopped, he told Ground he was going to wait for us, we made our turn and all was well. On the return we were taxiing toward our tiedown spot, and realized that the Centurion parked up ahead — wasn’t parked, he had just stopped there for some reason. He moved, I did a nice tight 270 turn to pull into a spot my CFI didn’t think I could make.

So my primary CFI is going to be gone again for 15 days, and I’ll be flying with another instructor. I have every intention of being able to grease a crosswind landing consistently by the time John returns, as well as having the PP knowledge test out of the way and the pre-solo written done. My only complaint about John is that I feel like he gets on the controls a little too early and too often when he thinks I’m about to fluff a landing. OK, I understand his desire to be able to fly the plane again… but. Today I began my transition later than usual, and I think I nailed that part pretty well. In hindsight, yes, I stopped my xwind correction a little too early and we drifted left — but the flippin’ runway is 150′ wide! And, yes, we did start to balloon a LITTLE bit. Nowhere near as badly as we have before, and I saw it coming and lowered the nose… but by then John was on the yoke and rudder pedals and had half a bushel of throttle in. I honestly feel if I’d been left on my own we would have touched down more smoothly. It wasn’t pretty, but I had it.

All in all, it was a lot of work today, a TON of learning, and a good end to the week.

Date: 3/16/2012
Aircraft: N5533F
This flight: 1.3 Total: 10.7 (.3 simulated instrument)

 

[DaleB]

Just a quick update. New flight school, new CFI, new airplane. Well, "different" for all three, not new. The CFI is the youngest I have worked with but knows his stuff. To say I have kids older then him would be an understatement; my youngest kid is older than him.

I'm now at 15.5 hours total time, with today's flight. This was my second time up with Tyler, and I'm exhausted. We did slow flight, power off stalls, power on stalls, steep turns, turns around a point, S-turns, rectangular course, emergency procedures, touch & gos and a full stop landing. One of the emergencies was as I was climbing out after doing the ground reference maneuvers, and I wasn't expecting it when he pulled the throttle. All in all, an hour and a half of hard work. Oh, yeah -- and when we needed to dump about 2000' of altitude to do ground reference maneuvers he wanted to see a forward slip. No problem -- full right aileron, full left rudder, and remember to pop your ears on the way down.

This airplane is a PA-28-140, like the others, but has a 160HP engine. I don't know if it's just the extra 10 HP, but it climbs like mad compared to the others I was flying. I tried to get my cell phone mounted to the windshield with a suction cup mount so I could get some video, but it wasn't cooperating and I didn't want to waste instructor time messing with it. I'll try again next time.

As a minor milestone... I got tot total up my first logbook page, and my next lesson on Friday will start a new page. It only took 13 years! I started that logbook with a lesson in 1999. The rest of the pages should fill up somewhat more quickly. To be honest -- I thought I would have soloed by now. If I had been flying with one CFI, I'm certain of it. My first one got a job that keeps him out of town for 2 weeks at a time, so I had to fly with #2. Then that flight school went TU, so now I'm on #3. That's three completely different ways to fly the approach, three instructors who have had to figure out where I'm at, three different approaches to a lot of things. Right now Tyler is still getting a handle on what I know and can do, and we're working on my landings at Millard using his approach. CFI #2 had me doing pretty well, but in a different airplane with a completely different trim setup. #1 and #2 had me carry throttle all the way until the transition, #3 has be cut power before we even hit the threshold. I finally got the approach down pretty well today, but the runway is a lot narrower than I'm used to -- I think I am over compensating and my round-out and flare tend to be a little high. I'll grease it next time.

 

[DaleB]

I just got back from another hour or so just doing TnGs. By the time we called it a day I thought I was doing pretty well. On the second-to-last one the instructor said he'd gotten on the controls only for the last couple of seconds, because he thought we were going to be short. I told him, politely, that I had it and we'd have landed on the numbers... had he not added power, which gave us a nice little float. I'm getting to the point where it irritates me if he gets on the controls. I've got it, if there's a correction to be made I'll make it. Keep yer mitts off the yoke and pedals.

Anyway, the way he wants it done is WAY different than I have done it before, but it still works. Abeam the numbers reduce power, first notch of flaps... and from there on it's all airspeed. Keep in mind all speeds are MPH as these are older Cherokees... 90 on downwind, 85 on base, 80 on final. Today we added 5 MPH to all three due to gusty winds. As with CFI #2, I ended up just managing position and airspeed. This guy likes to come in steep, we are well above the VASI slope until we're well over the fence and on very short final. No problem, with full flaps the Cherokee will sink like a rock if you want it to. I finally got the hang of "power for altitude/glide slope, pitch for airspeed". CFI #1 and #2 both had the attitude of "set the throttle at xxx RPM and don't touch it again until you're over the runway". Today I used the throttle several times... and I finally quit trying to flare too early. Over the threshold I'd level off and let it sink, bleeding off airspeed until we were just above the surface, then use the yoke to set off the stall buzzer just as we touched down. There's a lot happening in about five seconds, but the mains set down nicely and the nose follows just a touch later. Off the yoke, flaps up, check mixture and carb heat, line it up, full throttle and do it again.

Overall, despite the winds (15G23, I think it was) I feel like it was a pretty good day. I know having that much variation in the wind on final gave me a lot of very valuable practice in managing speed and sink rate. It was slightly off the runway centerline as well, so there was some crosswind component to deal with. I still managed to keep the centerline at least between the mains... for the most part.

 

[Henning]

My friend Janet from Aus compared flying a 152 to flying a 'biscuit tin'. It's all good, and that is solid VFR weather in the Eastern half of the US. West of Missouri there is a major climate interface between high pressure in the desert and high pressure in the arctic compete with each other to feed a Gulf or Caribbean low.

 

[kimberlyanne546]

I just got back from another hour or so just doing TnGs. By the time we called it a day I thought I was doing pretty well. On the second-to-last one the instructor said he'd gotten on the controls only for the last couple of seconds, because he thought we were going to be short. I told him, politely, that I had it and we'd have landed on the numbers... had he not added power, which gave us a nice little float. I'm getting to the point where it irritates me if he gets on the controls. I've got it, if there's a correction to be made I'll make it. Keep yer mitts off the yoke and pedals.

Anyway, the way he wants it done is WAY different than I have done it before, but it still works. Abeam the numbers reduce power, first notch of flaps... and from there on it's all airspeed. Keep in mind all speeds are MPH as these are older Cherokees... 90 on downwind, 85 on base, 80 on final. Today we added 5 MPH to all three due to gusty winds. As with CFI #2, I ended up just managing position and airspeed. This guy likes to come in steep, we are well above the VASI slope until we're well over the fence and on very short final. No problem, with full flaps the Cherokee will sink like a rock if you want it to. I finally got the hang of "power for altitude/glide slope, pitch for airspeed". CFI #1 and #2 both had the attitude of "set the throttle at xxx RPM and don't touch it again until you're over the runway". Today I used the throttle several times... and I finally quit trying to flare too early. Over the threshold I'd level off and let it sink, bleeding off airspeed until we were just above the surface, then use the yoke to set off the stall buzzer just as we touched down. There's a lot happening in about five seconds, but the mains set down nicely and the nose follows just a touch later. Off the yoke, flaps up, check mixture and carb heat, line it up, full throttle and do it again.

Overall, despite the winds (15G23, I think it was) I feel like it was a pretty good day. I know having that much variation in the wind on final gave me a lot of very valuable practice in managing speed and sink rate. It was slightly off the runway centerline as well, so there was some crosswind component to deal with. I still managed to keep the centerline at least between the mains... for the most part.

You are getting close! I find, like you say, it is often about what the individual CFI "wants to see" - different between CFI's but important to know well if you want that solo sign off.

 

[DaleB]

Yep... I'm hoping to have that soon. Unfortunately we're getting into the time of year when high, gusting winds and storms will be the norm for the next month or so. My CFI is able to work evenings, though, so I'm going to try scheduling time around 6 when it's usually a little calmer.

 

[DaleB]

Wow... talk about night and day differences.

Last Thursday I went up for an hour. We did just touch & gos the whole time. Winds were gusty, I think something like 9 gusting to 18 or so about 60 degrees off the active runway. Now, I've done xwind landings before, at both Eppley (KOMA, long, 150' wide runways, Class C) and Blair (KBTA, 100' wide, no tower and usually no other traffic). My other CFIs were generally OK with my landings, my biggest problem was flaring a little high. But I am used to coming in one wing low, opposite rudder, glide path nailed with the VASI white/red, and if it was a crosswind I'd usually have only one or maybe two notches of flaps.

At Millard, my landings were a disaster. OK, the field is in a little bit of a bowl and surrounded by trees and stuff that you don't see at the other fields. The winds get tricky through there. Still, I was fighting the instructor for the controls all the way down. We'd come in WAY high - VASI white/white - he'd freak if I got under 80 MPH on final and things just went down hill. I left a little ****ed and a little discouraged, but more dissatisfied with the lack of communication and what I felt was a lack of trust in my ability to put the thing down safely, just because what I was used to doing wasn't exactly the way he liked to do it. Overall a crap day.

Today was DEAD calm, about 90F and 3500' DA. We did 8 T&Gs. After the first couple of them when I was just too close on downwind, he didn't feel the need to touch the controls. The only issue was I'd try to flare, and the nose would NOT come up... we landed OK, but it was more flat than I'd like and I couldn't figure out why I just completely ran out of elevator right then. I was pulling hard on that yoke, it was at the mechanical limit and I was just getting no more "up". Well, on the third-to-last I got a little aggravated with that and gave an extra tug... and the yoke slid out another inch and a half! Nose popped right up, we floated a little but I caught it and we landed on the mains with a little "chirp". I was surprised enough that we actually did a soft field, I didn't have the nose wheel down for a good 50 feet or more. Little maintenance squawk, they need to put a little silicone on that yoke shaft because it's binding pretty badly. But even the ones I wasn't happy with he said were OK, and liked that I said they were too flat. Had I figured out the yoke problem earlier they'd have been even better.

Anyway, now that I've finally done some GOOD landings at MLE I'm pretty confident I can do it in a crosswind too. The sight picture is different, and I've figured out what will make the CFI happy. We did talk about the approach thing. I said, "Man, you like a steep approach! I'm looking at the VASI, we're right on it, and you're getting nervous that we're too low. It feels way high to me." He says he likes to carry the extra height coming in over the highway and light poles (for 30) and soccer fields (for 12), and get this - "VASI is more for instrument approaches and is lower than you want to be anyway." That's one I hadn't heard. Oh well. If he wants steep approaches, so be it.

The funny thing that happened today... on the second landing he thought we were a little low on short final (we weren't), so right as I'm rounding off he pops in some throttle. Duh, we float. I fixed it, we landed fine. On the way up he tells me he thought we were a little low and slow on that one so he added throttle... I said, "Yeah, that's why we floated. Don't worry, though, it's a common mistake. You'll get better at it."

I don't think he touched the controls again.

 

[jpower]

Anyway, now that I've finally done some GOOD landings at MLE I'm pretty confident I can do it in a crosswind too. The sight picture is different, and I've figured out what will make the CFI happy. We did talk about the approach thing. I said, "Man, you like a steep approach! I'm looking at the VASI, we're right on it, and you're getting nervous that we're too low. It feels way high to me." He says he likes to carry the extra height coming in over the highway and light poles (for 30) and soccer fields (for 12), and get this - "VASI is more for instrument approaches and is lower than you want to be anyway." That's one I hadn't heard.

I've heard that the VASI / PAPIs are more for higher performance aircraft, and that the low and slow types stay above the VASI/PAPI glidepath most of the time. That's what I tend to do, because it works well in the Eaglets and keeps the neighbors happy. But I'd love to hear what others have to say about this....

The funny thing that happened today... on the second landing he thought we were a little low on short final (we weren't), so right as I'm rounding off he pops in some throttle. Duh, we float. I fixed it, we landed fine. On the way up he tells me he thought we were a little low and slow on that one so he added throttle... I said, "Yeah, that's why we floated. Don't worry, though, it's a common mistake. You'll get better at it."

I don't think he touched the controls again.

Hahahah great. I'd love to know what he said in response.

 

[jesse]

Wow... talk about night and day differences.

Last Thursday I went up for an hour. We did just touch & gos the whole time. Winds were gusty, I think something like 9 gusting to 18 or so about 60 degrees off the active runway. Now, I've done xwind landings before, at both Eppley (KOMA, long, 150' wide runways, Class C) and Blair (KBTA, 100' wide, no tower and usually no other traffic). My other CFIs were generally OK with my landings, my biggest problem was flaring a little high. But I am used to coming in one wing low, opposite rudder, glide path nailed with the VASI white/red, and if it was a crosswind I'd usually have only one or maybe two notches of flaps.

At Millard, my landings were a disaster. OK, the field is in a little bit of a bowl and surrounded by trees and stuff that you don't see at the other fields. The winds get tricky through there. Still, I was fighting the instructor for the controls all the way down. We'd come in WAY high - VASI white/white - he'd freak if I got under 80 MPH on final and things just went down hill. I left a little ****ed and a little discouraged, but more dissatisfied with the lack of communication and what I felt was a lack of trust in my ability to put the thing down safely, just because what I was used to doing wasn't exactly the way he liked to do it. Overall a crap day.

Today was DEAD calm, about 90F and 3500' DA. We did 8 T&Gs. After the first couple of them when I was just too close on downwind, he didn't feel the need to touch the controls. The only issue was I'd try to flare, and the nose would NOT come up... we landed OK, but it was more flat than I'd like and I couldn't figure out why I just completely ran out of elevator right then. I was pulling hard on that yoke, it was at the mechanical limit and I was just getting no more "up". Well, on the third-to-last I got a little aggravated with that and gave an extra tug... and the yoke slid out another inch and a half! Nose popped right up, we floated a little but I caught it and we landed on the mains with a little "chirp". I was surprised enough that we actually did a soft field, I didn't have the nose wheel down for a good 50 feet or more. Little maintenance squawk, they need to put a little silicone on that yoke shaft because it's binding pretty badly. But even the ones I wasn't happy with he said were OK, and liked that I said they were too flat. Had I figured out the yoke problem earlier they'd have been even better.

Anyway, now that I've finally done some GOOD landings at MLE I'm pretty confident I can do it in a crosswind too. The sight picture is different, and I've figured out what will make the CFI happy. We did talk about the approach thing. I said, "Man, you like a steep approach! I'm looking at the VASI, we're right on it, and you're getting nervous that we're too low. It feels way high to me." He says he likes to carry the extra height coming in over the highway and light poles (for 30) and soccer fields (for 12), and get this - "VASI is more for instrument approaches and is lower than you want to be anyway." That's one I hadn't heard. Oh well. If he wants steep approaches, so be it.

The funny thing that happened today... on the second landing he thought we were a little low on short final (we weren't), so right as I'm rounding off he pops in some throttle. Duh, we float. I fixed it, we landed fine. On the way up he tells me he thought we were a little low and slow on that one so he added throttle... I said, "Yeah, that's why we floated. Don't worry, though, it's a common mistake. You'll get better at it."

I don't think he touched the controls again.

I teach my students to utilize the VASI - but if someone wants to come in a little steeper so be it too. Perhaps one of these weekends I can run over there in the Cherokee or something and we can fly for a bit. I'm a bit more hands off it sounds like.