Bachelors degree in aviation

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Johnhammy3

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Johnhamelcheck
Was looking for some feedback.

I started off my aviation career at a big university that had a part 141 school getting my degree in PRO PILOT. I was able to acquire my private and instrument. However, fell on some financial hardship while time building. At the time I had 98 of my 120 hours required for my degree.

I had to move out of the town. The university was located in due to it being a small town and no jobs that would pay well enough to pursue my aviation interest. Currently I just acquired my commercial license from a part 61 school. Now I am working towards my CFI and double I. Once I get hired on somewhere I was looking at finishing my degree ONLINE.

Basically my question is should I find an online school to finish my pro pilot degree and only have 60-70 of my credits transfer… or should I get a basic university studies degree online and complete my 22 credit hours I have remaining at the university I started at. End goal is commercial, corporate, or cargo.
 
Is this a conventional 4-year bachelor's degree? Or is it some type of specialized program with only aviation courses?
 
write-stuff said:
Is this a conventional 4-year bachelor's degree? Or is it some type of specialized program with only aviation courses?
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A basic explanation I got from google states; A University Studies degree allows students to combine multiple areas of focus—such as business, humanities, and science—to complete their degree efficiently, often by utilizing existing credits from various disciplines. And about 40-50 of the 98 credits I already have were aviation courses when I was in pro pilot undergrad
 
From what I’ve read lately Pro Pilot won’t help getting hired. It’s time lots of time.
 
If I understand correctly, you are/were working your way through school and paying for your flight training. I did exactly that--I paid for my flight training and college tuition, along with living expenses, with wages earned from jobs working as a freelance musician, an auto mechanic, a roofer, a line boy, and flight instructor once I earned my CFI. (Tuition was much less expensive then, so it's more difficult to do that today.)

While earning a BA in Music, I earned my CFII and MEI, logged about 700 hours of dual, and started doing some 135 and pilot services. I graduated with about 1200TT, in what I now call The Age of Scarcity in which 2000TT was considered "low time" and very few jobs were available to pilots with my limited experience. But I was able to get hired as a CFI by a university that had a busy aviation degree program. In addition to hiring me as an instructor, they transferred all of my academic credits which allowed me to add a BS degree in Aviation while working there. A year later, I had completed the requirements for the aviation degree and logged another 500 hrs or so. Once you have your CFI certificate, you might consider getting a job at the university that you were previously attending--or some other school that will accept the academic credits that you've already earned--and complete your degree while instructing.

Good luck.
 
Ok, my opinion would be any degree BUT pro pilot. It will help very little, if any, with your flying career. Get something you can use as a fallback in case the pro pilot thing doesn't work out. Find a subject that interests you with good career potential. Business or Engineering are good choices.
 
Johnhammy3 said:
Was looking for some feedback.

I started off my aviation career at a big university that had a part 141 school getting my degree in PRO PILOT. I was able to acquire my private and instrument. However, fell on some financial hardship while time building. At the time I had 98 of my 120 hours required for my degree.

I had to move out of the town. The university was located in due to it being a small town and no jobs that would pay well enough to pursue my aviation interest. Currently I just acquired my commercial license from a part 61 school. Now I am working towards my CFI and double I. Once I get hired on somewhere I was looking at finishing my degree ONLINE.

Basically my question is should I find an online school to finish my pro pilot degree and only have 60-70 of my credits transfer… or should I get a basic university studies degree online and complete my 22 credit hours I have remaining at the university I started at. End goal is commercial, corporate, or cargo.
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First, a few major airlines has reinstitute on hiring those with a 4 year degree. At least one is not hiring if you did not complete the degree within 4 consecutive years. The job market is tightening.

If it were me, I’d get a degree in a science field so if I lost my medical or when AI replaces pilots you have another option.
 
Clip4 said:
First, a few major airlines has reinstitute on hiring those with a 4 year degree. At least one is not hiring if you did not complete the degree within 4 consecutive years. The job market is tightening.

If it were me, I’d get a degree in a science field so if I lost my medical or when AI replaces pilots you have another option.
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If AI replaces pilots, the funerary and accident reconstruction fields might have more promise. :mad::(
 
Clip4 said:
If it were me, I’d get a degree in a science field so if I lost my medical or when AI replaces pilots you have another option.
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It's a race to see which one AI replaces first, pilot jobs vs science-related jobs.
 
asicer said:
It's a race to see which one AI replaces first, pilot jobs vs science-related jobs.
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It’ll replace science-related jobs first…those are the jobs that would come up with something to replace AI, and AI won’t let that happen.
 
I employ a couple of mechanics who have 2000 hours flying each.

People lose their medicals…

LACCD is about to start a bachelor’s program in avionics where the A&P or 2 year degree is a prerequisite.
 
write-stuff said:
Ok, my opinion would be any degree BUT pro pilot. It will help very little, if any, with your flying career. Get something you can use as a fallback in case the pro pilot thing doesn't work out. Find a subject that interests you with good career potential. Business or Engineering are good choices.
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100% this. Get a BS or even associates in either business or something technical. Engineering if you can swing it, a generic technology degree, comp sci, etc. Then employers will know you can follow through with something and you have either some tech or business chops. I don't know that brick and mortar matters much if any over online in tech these days. A degree in "pilot" is just going to confuse most employers and HR people.
 
When I was at Parks College in the 1970s, their pilot program was a degree in "Aeronautical Administration" coupled with the flight program, not all AA students went for the "professional pilot option". I think it was a more or less conventional business degree, with emphasis on the aviation business, which would seem to be more useful than the generic "aviation" degree you see nowadays?

Me, I chose aerospace engineering instead and added the flight courses, which I stopped after the first year once I got my private since I knew I didn't want a career as a pilot.
 
write-stuff said:
Ok, my opinion would be any degree BUT pro pilot. It will help very little, if any, with your flying career. Get something you can use as a fallback in case the pro pilot thing doesn't work out. Find a subject that interests you with good career potential. Business or Engineering are good choices.
Click to expand...

This seems to be a common refrain. Overall, only about 30% of college graduates enter careers directly related to their degree, and given that fact, aviation seems to be about as viable a field of study as most. You advised, "any degree BUT pro pilot," but would a degree in in Comparative Literature, Philosophy, or [_______] Studies be any more valuable in the broader job market than a degree in aviation? And what potential fallback carreers will be subject to the negative impact of emerging technologies, perhaps to the point of becoming entirely obsolete?

You further advised the OP that a "pro pilot" degree "will help very little, if any, with your flying career." As pilot who obtained an aviation degree after having earned a CPL and instructor ratings, and who had already been actively flying for hire (ref. #5), I can truthfully report that some of what I learned from the aviation program did indeed help me in my flying career. For example, I learned far more about aerodynamics, meteorology, and aviation law in college than I learned while obtaining my certificates and ratings at a 141 school, and that knowledge was, and is, useful. What's more, it put me on better footing in a job market where I had to compete with military pilots whose training was a known quantity to employers and widely considered to be better than what we receive under parts 61 and 141.

All that seems moot considering that the OP was "last seen" on May 12, so...
 
I’d say go for what interests you the most. I was firmly in the no pro pilot degree for a while but my thoughts have changed. A non aviation degree that you haven’t used in 20 years is probably almost as “useless” as an aviation degree. My degree is in economics. Besides an internship I did over 10 years ago, I have no recent/relevant experience. If I were to lose my medical, it would be extremely difficult for me to find a job in that field and it will only get harder the longer I’ve been out of school. Check the degree box and keep your health in check. I see pros and cons to aviation vs non aviation degree.
 
Roger Wilco said:
This seems to be a common refrain. Overall, only about 30% of college graduates enter careers directly related to their degree, and given that fact, aviation seems to be about as viable a field of study as most. You advised, "any degree BUT pro pilot," but would a degree in in Comparative Literature, Philosophy, or [_______] Studies be any more valuable in the broader job market than a degree in aviation? And what potential fallback carreers will be subject to the negative impact of emerging technologies, perhaps to the point of becoming entirely obsolete?
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I can't speak to why WS wrote the comment, but I can speak to why it resonated so clearly and accurately to me. It hit home not because of any quality of the knowledge learned, but on how I believe the name of the degree will matter in terms of getting a job. I say that as someone that's been on the hiring/interviewing side of tech for a number of years, so I do not speak accurately to aviation. I do, though, have a bit of an understanding of how modern large HR processes work.

Short version, generally before I see resumes for any particular position they're vetted by HR. HR people are following very specific rules designed to reduce the tech team's workload and weed out many resumes. This process probably isn't fair, but it's normal. Things that are weird or unusual or unknown aren't going to do well getting through such a process, in my experience. It is perfectly normal, though, for liberal arts degrees to go through that process fine, because it's normal for someone to have a degree in history or lit or whatever, and then become an IT person.

In my head they all blend into the thought "someone wanted to study what they loved when they were a kid and now they've grown up." One of the best IT people I know has a degree in religious studies. But I wouldn't want to test the process with a degree that HR has never heard of. And if you're coming in with a non-tech degree and not much experience it's going to be tough to compete with someone with a tech degree and similar experience. It's not impossible, just tougher.

So that's 80% of it. The other 20% is that with a business degree, you might just learn enough business stuff to help you out, maybe. And with an engineering or tech degree, you just might learn how to think better, plan better, and get things done, maybe. The soft stuff? Perhaps I'm harsh here, but a BA in anything but music and maybe other performing arts, and you're not really learning anything you won't pick up as part of regular life on the up side, and on the down side you'll pickup bad habits from people who've never actually had a real job. Read that through twice, it's harsh, but I believe accurate, and I have family that have worked in education.
 
Albany Tom said:
I can't speak to why WS wrote the comment, but I can speak to why it resonated so clearly and accurately to me. It hit home not because of any quality of the knowledge learned, but on how I believe the name of the degree will matter in terms of getting a job. I say that as someone that's been on the hiring/interviewing side of tech for a number of years, so I do not speak accurately to aviation. I do, though, have a bit of an understanding of how modern large HR processes work.

Short version, generally before I see resumes for any particular position they're vetted by HR. HR people are following very specific rules designed to reduce the tech team's workload and weed out many resumes. This process probably isn't fair, but it's normal. Things that are weird or unusual or unknown aren't going to do well getting through such a process, in my experience. It is perfectly normal, though, for liberal arts degrees to go through that process fine, because it's normal for someone to have a degree in history or lit or whatever, and then become an IT person.

In my head they all blend into the thought "someone wanted to study what they loved when they were a kid and now they've grown up." One of the best IT people I know has a degree in religious studies. But I wouldn't want to test the process with a degree that HR has never heard of. And if you're coming in with a non-tech degree and not much experience it's going to be tough to compete with someone with a tech degree and similar experience. It's not impossible, just tougher.

So that's 80% of it. The other 20% is that with a business degree, you might just learn enough business stuff to help you out, maybe. And with an engineering or tech degree, you just might learn how to think better, plan better, and get things done, maybe. The soft stuff? Perhaps I'm harsh here, but a BA in anything but music and maybe other performing arts, and you're not really learning anything you won't pick up as part of regular life on the up side,
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Thank you for the thoughtful reply. I agree with you in that some degrees make a better impression than others. Based on my understanding of HR departments, it's reasonable to assume that they favor candidates with liberal arts degrees since they themselves are often products of liberal arts programs. But in my experience, most non-aviation people considered my job--piloting an aircraft--to be a highly technical occupation, and I can't find any reason to believe that HR would consider a history or lit major to somehow be a better bet for an IT job than an aviation major. But what do I know.

I certainly agree that a business degree would be a good option, but I can't go along with your premise that an engineering or some other kind of tech degree, or a business degree for that matter, teaches one to "think better." I'm the son of an engineer and have worked with a lot of folks with engineering degrees, and I know how y'all think. Disciplined and organized thinkers, but not necessarily better. As an aside regarding the BA in music: performance, composition, and conducting are rigorous and highly competitive concentrations in which success demands very high levels of motivation and self-discipline, along with a high-functioning interaction between both left and right hemispheres. Music history and musicology are different animals.
Albany Tom said:
and on the down side you'll pickup bad habits from people who've never actually had a real job.
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On this I could not possibly agree more. The burgeoning empire of the "soft stuff" has become a menace to society.
 
Roger Wilco said:
You advised, "any degree BUT pro pilot," but would a degree in in Comparative Literature, Philosophy, or [_______] Studies be any more valuable in the broader job market than a degree in aviation?
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Hi, Mr. Wilco. Based on what I actually said, I don't understand the reason for your reply at all. Here is what I said and I think this makes your reply moot.

"Find a subject that interests you with good career potential. Business or Engineering are good choices."
 
AZEL said:
Personally, I am getting an Engineering Degree. Because I want to be able to afford a house, a car, a 401(k), and flying after I graduate. :cool:
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ha ha. I did that. Got my engineering degree, and saw what a rough bunch of years it was for the CFI's working and hoping for aviation careers

Several years down the road, I'd gotten myself on a track in an industry that I wasn't fully enjoying, and I was finding it hard to get out and into some other industry or track. Thought seriously about trying to transition into flying for a living....following passions and all of that.... but that salary cut was a hard thing to face.

Many times over the years I wish that I would have followed a passion (flying or not) when I was younger and could have more easily worked through a few years of hardship. The longer I worked the bigger the hurdle, or so it seemed.
 
Never heard of a Degree called "Pro Pilot". Is it something like Pro Funeral Director or Pro Lawn Maintenance?
 
X3 Skier said:
Never heard of a Degree called "Pro Pilot". Is it something like Pro Funeral Director or Pro Lawn Maintenance?
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I think it's like a Pro Ball Player degree ... (look in the "C"s under "Communications." :cool: )
 
write-stuff said:
Hi, Mr. Wilco. Based on what I actually said, I don't understand the reason for your reply at all. Here is what I said and I think this makes your reply moot.

"Find a subject that interests you with good career potential. Business or Engineering are good choices."
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Thank you for your response, Mr. write-stuff. I was specifically referring to the following:
write-stuff said:
Ok, my opinion would be any degree BUT pro pilot. It will help very little, if any, with your flying career.
Click to expand...
Perhaps I misunderstood your advice to pursue "any degree BUT pro pilot." However, I do agree that business and engineering, at least up to now, are solid fields of study that provide a useful and marketable set of skills and knowledge.
 
Roger Wilco said:
Thank you for your response, Mr. write-stuff. I was specifically referring to the following:

Perhaps I misunderstood your advice to pursue "any degree BUT pro pilot."
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Forgive me. I should have said "almost any degree BUT pro pilot".
 
Gee, I wish I'd read this thread before getting my Bachelor of Arts in Puppetry from the University of Connecticut. :cool:
 
AZEL said:
Gee, I wish I'd read this thread before getting my Bachelor of Arts in Puppetry from the University of Connecticut. :cool:
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Are you going back to get a Puppet Master advanced degree?
 
write-stuff said:
Forgive me. I should have said "almost any degree BUT pro pilot".
Click to expand...
Your premise is sound, but many young people struggle to find a field of study that meets both criteria: interesting and career potential. We also have to consider the ugly fact that a 4-year degree has become alarmingly expensive, so the costs of flight training and a degree in a field such as engineering may be out of reach. Meanwhile, the OP has chosen to pursue a career as a professional pilot, a field which I assume is both interesting to him and which has at least some potential.

But that's just us talking. The OP is considering enrollment in an online degree program, and his real question to PoA was whether it would be better for him to finish his aviation degree or get some sort of general studies degree, considering his career goal of becoming a professional pilot.

Going back and reading the thread from top to bottom, I regret that my advice in #5 was all about what worked for me (based on certain assumptions that I should not have made) and did not actually address the OP's question. Should he revisit this thread, I would suggest to the OP that a general studies degree would not necessarily offer any career advantages over an aviation degree. In his situation, the path of least resistance is probably best; and his career prospects, insofar as his college eduction is concerned, may hinge on which online school he attends--it's accreditation and reputation--rather than which of those two majors he chooses.
 
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Johnhammy3 said:
Was looking for some feedback.

I started off my aviation career at a big university that had a part 141 school getting my degree in PRO PILOT. I was able to acquire my private and instrument. However, fell on some financial hardship while time building. At the time I had 98 of my 120 hours required for my degree.

I had to move out of the town. The university was located in due to it being a small town and no jobs that would pay well enough to pursue my aviation interest. Currently I just acquired my commercial license from a part 61 school. Now I am working towards my CFI and double I. Once I get hired on somewhere I was looking at finishing my degree ONLINE.

Basically my question is should I find an online school to finish my pro pilot degree and only have 60-70 of my credits transfer… or should I get a basic university studies degree online and complete my 22 credit hours I have remaining at the university I started at. End goal is commercial, corporate, or cargo.
Click to expand...
I just posted a similar question… My 20-year-old son is thinking of leaving his four year university right after his instrument rating (pending just waiting for check ride) and going the part 61 route. The program seems to have been mismanaged as of late, and he is just getting frustrated beyond belief, but more than that he hates the city The program is in. Loves flying, loves the program, but there seems to be some writing on the wall as of late in terms of not enough instructors no lead flight instructor etc… interested to keep in touch and see where your journey takes you leaving from part 141 school and going part 61 route. Good luck to you.
 
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