Avionics Upgrade

Right, but the OP has an STEC 60 so the existing AI does not need to stay. And per the screen cap in post #31, the HSI does not need to stay either.
So far, the 275 doesn't show compatibility with the straight S-tec 60. It does show compatibility with the 60-1 and 60-2. Fortunately the OP appears to have the 60-1. So the 275 will do GPSS emulation. The hair I'm splitting is that, in order to have legal reversionary capability, both units will have to be ADAHRS.
 
Yea,
Shes beautiful too....
We are pennies apart on the cost too.
We opted for the GI-275 instead of the G5 and am holding off on the Autopilot & Engine instruments for the time being..
Its just money as I said..
Stay in touch.. Craig
 
We were faced with exactly the same thing on our plane.
although looking like an Oshkosh a winner she still has 8000 hours.
We don’t regret for one nanosecond putting in the panel that we did and as time unfolds, I’m sure we’ll go ahead and add the engine instruments and the autopilot to boot.
Just did the SVT upgrade on the GI-275. ITS STRIKING!
 
For basic, functional IFR w/o the vacuum pump you could do well with a pair of G5s and an IFD440 to get a better, more modern GPS screen display. THE g5s and a 430 are really easy to fly behind with even a single axis STEC AP.
 
So I’m leaning towards 2 G275’s, EDM930 and send 430w in for refurbishment. This should give me gpss for my STEC 60-2 as well. Couldn’t find a good comparison between the EDM830 and EDM930 but looks like the 930 will let me get rid of all gauges, correct?


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So I’m leaning towards 2 G275’s, EDM930 and send 430w in for refurbishment. This should give me gpss for my STEC 60-2 as well. Couldn’t find a good comparison between the EDM830 and EDM930 but looks like the 930 will let me get rid of all gauges, correct?


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So will the 900 and 900 has a smaller footprint and fits in existing instrument hole if that matters (less $). 930 requires cutting the panel.

1f25fed89f61b3cc3bef789cd718abbb.jpg
 
So will the 900 and 900 has a smaller footprint and fits in existing instrument hole if that matters (less $). 930 requires cutting the panel.

1f25fed89f61b3cc3bef789cd718abbb.jpg

I will get a quote on new panel. I would like to keep it as clean as possible so don’t want hole covers if I can avoid it


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So I’m leaning towards 2 G275’s, EDM930 and send 430w in for refurbishment. This should give me gpss for my STEC 60-2 as well. Couldn’t find a good comparison between the EDM830 and EDM930 but looks like the 930 will let me get rid of all gauges, correct?


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Correct, the 930 is “primary” and can replace all your existing gauges.

I’m going to buy the 830, because (1) I want to keep individual gauges for redundancy in the rare event that the EDM unit fails, and (2) I want to be able to customize my alarm trigger limits. Everyone is different and there’s no right or wrong answer, just giving you my reasoning and to answer the “good comparison” question ‘cuz I been shopping too.

Question on the G5 vs G275 - my 2022 upgrade will be to ditch the vac pump. I have a 60-2 (no GPSS) like you. What’s the operational benefit of the G275? I haven’t figured that one out yet myself.
 
I get that synthetic vision has a cool factor, but really, who uses and for what reason would you use it? I have it on my portables and have used it for a few minutes but I return to other pages and never looked at it again.
 
I get that synthetic vision has a cool factor, but really, who uses and for what reason would you use it? I have it on my portables and have used it for a few minutes but I return to other pages and never looked at it again.
On an instrument approach center the needles then put the FPM on the runway numbers and you have your crosswind correction. Similar with your power settings.

Engine out, the FPM can help give you an idea of your options.
 
Correct, the 930 is “primary” and can replace all your existing gauges.

I’m going to buy the 830, because (1) I want to keep individual gauges for redundancy in the rare event that the EDM unit fails, and (2) I want to be able to customize my alarm trigger limits. Everyone is different and there’s no right or wrong answer, just giving you my reasoning and to answer the “good comparison” question ‘cuz I been shopping too.

Question on the G5 vs G275 - my 2022 upgrade will be to ditch the vac pump. I have a 60-2 (no GPSS) like you. What’s the operational benefit of the G275? I haven’t figured that one out yet myself.

My personal decision between the 2 is from videos I’ve seen the 275 is easier to see. The HSI is bigger vs G5 for example. Also seems to have more options with 275 in case I change something later


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On an instrument approach center the needles then put the FPM on the runway numbers and you have your crosswind correction. Similar with your power settings.

Engine out, the FPM can help give you an idea of your options.

Have you ever flown with an electronic HSI? They have a magenta diamond that indicates your track, just align it with your course and you have your crosswind correction.
I can either use the nearest page or my glide range on my Garmin Pilot app, in either I can see airports behind me, SV only shows what’s in front of you.
 
Have you ever flown with an electronic HSI? They have a magenta diamond that indicates your track, just align it with your course and you have your crosswind correction.
Yes, all the time on both the G1000 and G5. The FPM reacts faster so you can make quicker adjustments if there's a gust. Plus, the track indicator is only lateral while the FPM also helps with vertical.

I will say, however, that I find syn vis more useful in the PFD than a portable because it's inside my scan.
 
Map overlay, synthetic vision, traffic/weather, touchscreen, more pixels (sharper screen).

Thank you. What if any additional equipment or wiring connections would be needed for the syn vis, map, and traffic/WX? I assume ADSB-In is needed for the tfc/WX, and connection to GPS source for the rest (IFD-540??).
 
Thank you. What if any additional equipment or wiring connections would be needed for the syn vis, map, and traffic/WX? I assume ADSB-In is needed for the tfc/WX, and connection to GPS source for the rest (IFD-540??).
Pretty much, although you probably don't even need the GPS navigator connection since the GI275 has its own built-in VFR/advisory GPS receiver. However, you'd want the navigator connection anyway in order to get all the other IFR goodies.
 
On an instrument approach center the needles then put the FPM on the runway numbers and you have your crosswind correction. Similar with your power settings.

Engine out, the FPM can help give you an idea of your options.
FPM?
 
Have you ever flown with an electronic HSI? They have a magenta diamond that indicates your track, just align it with your course and you have your crosswind correction.
This to me is the single biggest advantage of an electronic HSI over its mechanical siblings. Not just for approaches; it takes all the wind-related guessing out of any phase of flight.

- Martin
 
This to me is the single biggest advantage of an electronic HSI over its mechanical siblings. Not just for approaches; it takes all the wind-related guessing out of any phase of flight.

- Martin
If you don't have the $$$ for an electronic HSI, you can accomplish the same thing with an EFB app on your phone (because it's advisory only; you're still using the HSI or DG+CDI for primary navigation, and just using the mobile device to help figure out the heading).
 
This to me is the single biggest advantage of an electronic HSI over its mechanical siblings. Not just for approaches; it takes all the wind-related guessing out of any phase of flight.

- Martin
Yes, but the syn vis FPM takes it to a whole other level.

Also, not all EHSI have the track indicator. For example the Sandels don't.
 
What’s everyone’s thoughts on avionics Brand name? Let’s say you look at the exact same plane, one has a Garmin GPS and G275’s / G5’s and the other has Avidyne and Aspen. With this being only thing different which would you buy. Reason I ask is depending on which avionics shop I call I have several saying if my plane is all Garmin it will be worth more if I sell it but then you have other shops that hate Garmin and push Avidyne, Aspen, Dynon ect. Need to make my final decision in the next day or two so I can get on a list for install so would like to hear some comparisons from people who have flown with both especially in IFR conditions


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What’s everyone’s thoughts on avionics Brand name? Let’s say you look at the exact same plane, one has a Garmin GPS and G275’s / G5’s and the other has Avidyne and Aspen. With this being only thing different which would you buy. Reason I ask is depending on which avionics shop I call I have several saying if my plane is all Garmin it will be worth more if I sell it but then you have other shops that hate Garmin and push Avidyne, Aspen, Dynon ect. Need to make my final decision in the next day or two so I can get on a list for install so would like to hear some comparisons from people who have flown with both especially in IFR conditions


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Garmin is preferred. I'm not a fan of Aspen or Avidyne. Dynon just looks like a children's toy from 1992
 
That's kind of a hard one to answer. I personally prefer Avidyne over Garmin, both with operation and support. Others will go the other way. I prefer the G5's to the Aspen E5, and am not an Aspen fan at all anyway, but I don't have experience with the GI275's. You will probably fine more people who would value a Garmin slightly over the Avidyne, but it costs more too, which may make up the difference. Some people love Aspen and others love the G5's. There are benefits to both. I think you should operate both and see which you like better. Most people besides shops that install both are going to say they like what they have best, partly because they did their research and chose what they liked better, and partly to justify their decision to put in what they put in. I don't think you'll be unhappy either way, and resale value difference would probably not exceed the cost difference on average.
 
That's kind of a hard one to answer. I personally prefer Avidyne over Garmin, both with operation and support. Others will go the other way. I prefer the G5's to the Aspen E5, and am not an Aspen fan at all anyway, but I don't have experience with the GI275's. You will probably fine more people who would value a Garmin slightly over the Avidyne, but it costs more too, which may make up the difference. Some people love Aspen and others love the G5's. There are benefits to both. I think you should operate both and see which you like better. Most people besides shops that install both are going to say they like what they have best, partly because they did their research and chose what they liked better, and partly to justify their decision to put in what they put in. I don't think you'll be unhappy either way, and resale value difference would probably not exceed the cost difference on average.

You are exactly right, I’m seeing most people push what they have to your point it’s either to justify what they picked from research or because that’s what they have so it’s the best. I’m hoping to get some real world comparisons from people who have flown with all and preferably have a little time with each to have a firm grasp on them. I know it’s a stretch as I haven’t seen many dynon units out there yet


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’m seeing most people push what they have to your point it’s either to justify what they picked from research or because that’s what they have so it’s the best.
Very much agree, and that's compounded by the fact that most aircraft owners seem to be more willing to speak ill of their spouse/kids/dog than they are their plane. :)
I’m hoping to get some real world comparisons from people who have flown with all and preferably have a little time with each to have a firm grasp on them.
Renters tend to be a neutral bunch, but they probably have the least exposure to the latest retrofit equipment.

CFI's are probably next up, but they tend to favor that which they've invested the most time learning the ins and outs.
 
What’s everyone’s thoughts on avionics Brand name? Let’s say you look at the exact same plane, one has a Garmin GPS and G275’s / G5’s and the other has Avidyne and Aspen. With this being only thing different which would you buy. Reason I ask is depending on which avionics shop I call I have several saying if my plane is all Garmin it will be worth more if I sell it but then you have other shops that hate Garmin and push Avidyne, Aspen, Dynon ect. Need to make my final decision in the next day or two so I can get on a list for install so would like to hear some comparisons from people who have flown with both especially in IFR conditions


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Great question! It's hard to imagine everything being exactly equal, and I'd give everything else priority over avionics brand. If it came to an absolute draw, I'd pick the plane with the Garmin panel, because I like their physical design better and I'd have two choices of navigation DB supplier with them (their house brand or Jeppesen, while Avidyne supports only Jeppesen). But if I liked the colour of the carpet in the Avidyne-equipped plane better, I'd still pick that over the Garmin plane, because I know the Avidyne IFD series is just as capable as the Garmin GTN series. :)

Interesting about your experience with shops having a strong preference. All the Canadian shops I talked to in 2017 when I was getting quotes for installing an IFR GPS were pretty neutral between Avidyne and Garmin. My final two quotes were within $1,500 of each other (Garmin was the lower one, purely due to hardware pricing at the time), and I didn't feel any nudging either way. A different shop I talked to more recently said that they end up installing Avidyne pretty-much exclusively as retrofits for pilots replacing a GNS 430W or 530W; everyone buying from scratch chooses Garmin. They said customers had it in their heads (wrongly) that the IFD was intended only as a slide-in replacement for the GNS.
 
So another hiccup I came across today is since Dynon won’t work with my autopilot I researched updating my STEC to their digital 3100 which the guy said was possible and they would go through my servos ect then he looked it up and the F33 is not approved only the 35 and 36 so unless we have 12-15 planes wanting to upgrade that won’t be an option for me. Sooooo more research


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So for you in the know, I need to confirm that a G5 or G275 will work with my Stec 60-2 autopilot and I can get rid of existing HSI? What about the G3x, will this work with my autopilot and remove my current HSI? I ask because quote I got for G3x has a G5 added. I know if I went the Dynon sky view route I would have to retain my current HSI and turn coordinator to make my autopilot work.


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G5, GI-275 or G3X can all provide heading and course error to your s-tec autopilot. You may need to get the autopilot computer restrapped (resistors changed) depending on what you are replacing (the Garmin stuff emulates a KI525, so if you had a different HSI the computer has to be be reconfigured). If you are using a G5 or G3X, you’ll only be able to interface one navigator to them, as it can’t switch outputs to the s-tec (only sends heading and course error, the navigator analog outputs stay wired to the autopilot), but if you do a GI-275, you can have 2 navigators interfaced as it can do the output switching for the analog signals.
 
G5, GI-275 or G3X can all provide heading and course error to your s-tec autopilot. You may need to get the autopilot computer restrapped (resistors changed) depending on what you are replacing (the Garmin stuff emulates a KI525, so if you had a different HSI the computer has to be be reconfigured). If you are using a G5 or G3X, you’ll only be able to interface one navigator to them, as it can’t switch outputs to the s-tec (only sends heading and course error, the navigator analog outputs stay wired to the autopilot), but if you do a GI-275, you can have 2 navigators interfaced as it can do the output switching for the analog signals.

Ok, that is a first I’ve heard of the resistors. Currently have a Collins HSI for the 430w. So if I understand that right if I do G5’s or G3x I would have to keep my CDI for the KX165 but if I do the G275’s I could use the 275 for the 430w and the kx165? I wonder why the quote had a G5 added for standby with the G3x and the G275 quote had a third 275 for standby added to it? My understanding is two G5’s or G275’s gets rid of vacuum pump and doesn’t need a backup. Does G3x need a backup?


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Great question! It's hard to imagine everything being exactly equal, and I'd give everything else priority over avionics brand. If it came to an absolute draw, I'd pick the plane with the Garmin panel, because I like their physical design better and I'd have two choices of navigation DB supplier with them (their house brand or Jeppesen, while Avidyne supports only Jeppesen). But if I liked the colour of the carpet in the Avidyne-equipped plane better, I'd still pick that over the Garmin plane, because I know the Avidyne IFD series is just as capable as the Garmin GTN series. :)

Interesting about your experience with shops having a strong preference. All the Canadian shops I talked to in 2017 when I was getting quotes for installing an IFR GPS were pretty neutral between Avidyne and Garmin. My final two quotes were within $1,500 of each other (Garmin was the lower one, purely due to hardware pricing at the time), and I didn't feel any nudging either way. A different shop I talked to more recently said that they end up installing Avidyne pretty-much exclusively as retrofits for pilots replacing a GNS 430W or 530W; everyone buying from scratch chooses Garmin. They said customers had it in their heads (wrongly) that the IFD was intended only as a slide-in replacement for the GNS.
Interesting...I've been pricing Avidyne 410 v Garmin 175, new install, and find the Garmin substantially lower in price than the Avidyne. By multiple AMUs. As much as I'd like the Avidyne interface with the iPad, it's not worth the $$$.
 
Interesting...I've been pricing Avidyne 410 v Garmin 175, new install, and find the Garmin substantially lower in price than the Avidyne. By multiple AMUs. As much as I'd like the Avidyne interface with the iPad, it's not worth the $$$.
Yes, Garmin has much cheaper options available now. Back in 2017, it was just GTN vs IFD, and the prices were comparable; now, Garmin has offerings like the GPS 175 that are half the price. Avidyne has no answer to those new products.

If I'd waited a couple of years more for my avionics upgrade, I could have saved > $10K by buying a GNX 375 (GPS navigator and ADS-B transponder combined) to replace my old transponder, rather than a GTN 650 and GTX 345 separately, but those are the breaks.
 
Ok, that is a first I’ve heard of the resistors. Currently have a Collins HSI for the 430w. So if I understand that right if I do G5’s or G3x I would have to keep my CDI for the KX165 but if I do the G275’s I could use the 275 for the 430w and the kx165? I wonder why the quote had a G5 added for standby with the G3x and the G275 quote had a third 275 for standby added to it? My understanding is two G5’s or G275’s gets rid of vacuum pump and doesn’t need a backup. Does G3x need a backup?


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Yeah, the resistor matrix configures the computer for the inputs. It'll be tagged on the computer (at least it should be) what the current configuration is, but given that you have a Collins HSI, it'll have to be reconfigured for sure to a the KI-525/KCS55 input which is what the Garmin's output.

You are correct that G3X or G5 you'd have to keep the separate CDI for the KX165. Even if you weren't interfacing with a 3rd party autopilot, the G3X/G5 don't talk analog inputs which is all the KX165 outputs. With the GI-275 it can accept the analog inputs from the KX165, so it could take your 430W and the KX165 as inputs, _and_ talk to the s-tec and handle the switching of the nav source to the autopilot.

A G3X installed for IFR, does require standby instruments, which can be met by the installation of the G5 as well. 2 GI-275's (one ADAHRS+AP, one ADAHRS) one configured as an ADI and one HSI/Standby ADI would meet all your standby requirements and could eliminate (if desired) all the 6 pack instruments, including the TC if you install the GTP 59 OAT probe, however, you need to retain the TC no matter what to drive the S-tec, but you could eliminate the rest and assuming no other need for vacuum source (boots?) you could remove your vacuum system too whichever road you went down (G3X+G5, dual G5, dual GI-275). Not sure why they quoted you an extra GI-275
 
Yeah, the resistor matrix configures the computer for the inputs. It'll be tagged on the computer (at least it should be) what the current configuration is, but given that you have a Collins HSI, it'll have to be reconfigured for sure to a the KI-525/KCS55 input which is what the Garmin's output.

You are correct that G3X or G5 you'd have to keep the separate CDI for the KX165. Even if you weren't interfacing with a 3rd party autopilot, the G3X/G5 don't talk analog inputs which is all the KX165 outputs. With the GI-275 it can accept the analog inputs from the KX165, so it could take your 430W and the KX165 as inputs, _and_ talk to the s-tec and handle the switching of the nav source to the autopilot.

A G3X installed for IFR, does require standby instruments, which can be met by the installation of the G5 as well. 2 GI-275's (one ADAHRS+AP, one ADAHRS) one configured as an ADI and one HSI/Standby ADI would meet all your standby requirements and could eliminate (if desired) all the 6 pack instruments, including the TC if you install the GTP 59 OAT probe, however, you need to retain the TC no matter what to drive the S-tec, but you could eliminate the rest and assuming no other need for vacuum source (boots?) you could remove your vacuum system too whichever road you went down (G3X+G5, dual G5, dual GI-275). Not sure why they quoted you an extra GI-275

Thx for the detailed info and the only thing I need vacuum for is AI- no boots.

What about Aspen, would resistors need changed as well? Need backup?


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