Aviation Keyboard App for ForeFlight...Finally!!

Discussion in 'Flight Following' started by Taylor Murphy, Mar 29, 2017.

  1. Taylor Murphy

    Taylor Murphy Filing Flight Plan

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    I recently came across on article on iPad Pilot News reviewing the app FFkeyboard and was quite impressed. Why hasn't ForeFlight thought of doing this on their own?? Anyways I went ahead and downloaded it to try it and this thing is a game changer. HUGE time saver and it really helps me keep everything nice and organized!

    Has anyone else heard of this or tried it?

    Screen Shot 2017-03-28 at 1.39.14 PM.png

    *Update*

    Several people below asked to see a video of live inputting ATC directions so here are two I did.

    ATIS


    Clearance
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2017
  2. midlifeflyer

    midlifeflyer Final Approach

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    I've seen a couple comments, mostly negative. Two in particular:
    1. Having to search for a dedicated key isn't really faster than entering the info on a keyboard you've been using since the first time you ever encountered one. Just looking at it, that sounds like a legit gripe to me. I can just see the multiple "say agains" when trying to take down the taxi instructions in the panel left of center searching for those dedicated keys instead of simply typing or writing "7 B1 E4 X 13" as it is said. But if you've really found that faster, go for it.
    2. It's not FF-specific. It's an alternate iOS keyboard, meaning it will be there in every other app that uses a keyboard, so you will have to take the time to go into settings to select and deselect it. If true, sounds like a PITA.
    Personally, the kinds of things they are describing it being used for are the kinds of things I write by hand, whether on the tablet or on paper, but I know others prefer keyboards and are far better typists than I.
     
  3. codeeno

    codeeno Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I am going to try it - it might help for me mainly for taxi instructions at new airports. I always have my ipad on my knee - and my clipboard in the seat - so it might help - time will tell.

    Dean
     
  4. Taylor Murphy

    Taylor Murphy Filing Flight Plan

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    It has been a huge help for me while taxing so I'm sure you will like it as well! Just takes a little time to get used to
     
  5. EppyGA

    EppyGA Touchdown! Greaser!

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    You do not have to go into settings to select or deselect for other apps. If it comes up you just hit KB, then ABC.
     
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  6. Taylor Murphy

    Taylor Murphy Filing Flight Plan

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  7. Taylor Murphy

    Taylor Murphy Filing Flight Plan

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    I too thought it would take a while to remember where all the keys were but after a day or two of playing with it, it becomes much easier! Just a slight learning curve to overcome
     
  8. rrrrr

    rrrrr Filing Flight Plan

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    Hey. So, what's your affiliation with this app?

    one.png two.png three.png four.png

    It would have been smarter to disclose this in the first place.
     
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  9. Tyjay30

    Tyjay30 Pre-Flight

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  10. Everskyward

    Everskyward Administrator Management Council Member

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    The Management Council would like an answer to the above question too, @Taylor Murphy. The Rules of Conduct state:

     
  11. midlifeflyer

    midlifeflyer Final Approach

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  12. midlifeflyer

    midlifeflyer Final Approach

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    Yeah, I used to try alternate keyboards but stopped years ago because they were always buggy. I forgot there's a link to switch them right in the keyboard.
     
  13. Taylor Murphy

    Taylor Murphy Filing Flight Plan

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    Zero? I know Dr. Morgan since I was college roommates with his son, don't know what else you are implying? He showed me that he developed this and got a good response amongst his pilot friends in Orlando. I found it to be pretty useful as well so am just further helping spread the word of a good idea
     
  14. Everskyward

    Everskyward Administrator Management Council Member

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    Note that the Rules of Conduct state:
    If what you say is true, you could have said something like, "My former college roomate's father developed and is selling this product." Otherwise, it looks like you are shilling for him without disclosing. I'm guessing we have enough curious POA members who are checking out your story, so what you just posted better be the whole truth.
     
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  15. Taylor Murphy

    Taylor Murphy Filing Flight Plan

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    Roger that. Again, I'm not affiliated in any way, just was spreading the word of something that I have found to be quite useful and helpful
     
  16. Everskyward

    Everskyward Administrator Management Council Member

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    OK, we welcome you to participate in the forums in other ways besides promoting a product. Just so that you know the backstory, we had another member who was constantly doing what you just did despite numerous warnings, and people are not appreciative of it.
     
  17. Taylor Murphy

    Taylor Murphy Filing Flight Plan

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    Totally understandable! That is certainly not my intent, I just like spreading the news of anything new that can beneficial/helpful for flying
     
  18. MAKG1

    MAKG1 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Wow, how elaborate an app do you need to substitute for a PENCIL?

    Damn, that's ridiculous. I can't imagine trying to copy a clearance with that bloated POS.

    Taxi clearances are easily done on paper, even if quite long. "B C A x 32R A1" beats searching for the "Alpha" key.

    High tech is not always better. Special purpose apps just to write stuff down is silly. It's like writing a speech synthesizer to say hello to the person in front of you. Just say hello.
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2017
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  19. rrrrr

    rrrrr Filing Flight Plan

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    Taylor - Welcome to PoA.

    What do you fly?
     
  20. midlifeflyer

    midlifeflyer Final Approach

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    LOL, since @Taylor Murphy is an early adopter and presumably very familiar with the app, I think a video of him inputting "Taxi to runway [insert any, unless you were thinking of a specific airport] via Bravo, Charlie and Alpha, cross runway 32R at Alpha 1" using the keyboard as an ATC-like voice gives the instruction at normal Ground speed. I figure it's about 6 seconds?
     
  21. rsleeds

    rsleeds Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Exactly what I was thinking. Even if you're using a tablet based tool for charts/diagrams/nav/whatever, having to type your "scratchpad" notes seems like a waste and a distraction.
     
  22. MAKG1

    MAKG1 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    The one that would really scare me is a real IFR clearance like

    123XY C KBUR dep <- h280 RV SJC VINCO PXN V107 FIM -D-> ^ 3000 -5-> 7000 120.1 5467

    It seems the app is trying to write all that out longhand, which isn't necessary.
     
  23. AggieMike88

    AggieMike88 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    The original "I don't know it all" of aviation.
    Something that literally got pounded into me by me by an instructor as I got close to running off the hard surface into a wet muddy area... when aircraft is in motion on the ground, focus only on that. No scribbling, no button pushing, no knob twisting, no messing with iPad.

    For him and me, it's an aircraft safety thing.
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2017
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  24. MAKG1

    MAKG1 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Yup. You don't even enter squawk codes while moving. That's how ground accidents happen.
     
  25. BigBadLou

    BigBadLou Final Approach

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    ^^^^ THAT
    A pilot friend of mine uses a flight app on his MiniPad to write down clearances. I watched him do it and realized that his much-bigger finger motions take too long, much longer than my little pencil strokes achieved by barely noticeable motion of my fingers.
    It is not about the app coolness or bloatness, this is about basic bio physics.

    I guess to each their own.
    But do you recall the hilarious multi-billion dollar NASA project to develop a space-pen that writes in 0G? :)
    And remember how the Russians solved it? :D
     
  26. MAKG1

    MAKG1 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    NASA did it the same way. The Space Pen was never a NASA project, nor was it anywhere near a multi-billion budget -- it was much closer to $1 million of private funding, with no NASA direction or involvement. While it makes a nice story, it's definitely untrue.
     
  27. Taylor Murphy

    Taylor Murphy Filing Flight Plan

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    Thanks! Learning in a Cessna 172!
     
  28. Taylor Murphy

    Taylor Murphy Filing Flight Plan

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    I found some videos on the website of inputting examples for taxing, approaches, and departures, hopefully that gives you an idea of the process

    http://ffkeyboard.com/tutorial.html

    Clearance_and_Taxi.mov
     
  29. Taylor Murphy

    Taylor Murphy Filing Flight Plan

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    I wouldn't say it is writing that all out longhand since it has many keys and shortcuts programmed with common phrases. It takes a little while to learn the layout though but once you do you are good!

    Here's a video that is close to the scenario you proposed

    Approach_and_Tower_arrival.mov
     
  30. rrrrr

    rrrrr Filing Flight Plan

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    How far along are you?
     
  31. Taylor Murphy

    Taylor Murphy Filing Flight Plan

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    Just passed 25 hours. Did basic simulator flying for years so really excited to be doing the real thing now!
     
  32. rrrrr

    rrrrr Filing Flight Plan

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    Nice. Did you solo yet?
     
  33. midlifeflyer

    midlifeflyer Final Approach

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    The video show how it's done. I understood the process from the beginning. It's pretty much what I expected. What I am interest in is seeing it in practical use - copying a real clearance (the one in the video has elements missing) or taxi instruction as it is given in real time. That is decidedly not shown.

    Here's an example of an IFR clearance from a video from a training organization. I don't expect you to do it since you only have limited experience at this point, but it gives you an idea what is involved for even a simple one like this one. But if someone here has the app, they can give it a try. I copied as it was given. The airports, procedure, etc are unfamiliar and I didn't do what I would ordinarily do to prepare. If you don't understand a part of it, well, neither did I. But clarifying portions with ATC is is part of the copying process, and clarifying doesn't mean "say again everything after 'cleared.'"

    But here's one for you. Taxi instructions after landing at KORL. It's real. I recorded it from LiveATC in the past 15 minutes. Hopefully you are not training out of there because being familiar with the airport and having heard it 20 times before would be cheating. You have to copy the instructions using the app on the first try. As they are given, not memorize them and write them down later. The first voice you hear is the pilot saying he wants to go to Sheltair. Ready? Go! And no cheating!
    http://midlifeflight.net/posted/TaxiInstruction.mp3
     
  34. Taylor Murphy

    Taylor Murphy Filing Flight Plan

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    You do make an excellent point. I will certainly give your challenge a try! I think the obvious way user's will increase their speed with the app is to do some practice like you just suggested and thoroughly know the layout of the app. But even then, I can still see your point being valid
     
  35. Taylor Murphy

    Taylor Murphy Filing Flight Plan

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    Yes, what an incredible feeling it was!
     
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  36. rsleeds

    rsleeds Pre-takeoff checklist

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    While you're still a student, please focus on operating the plane and not in typing things into an iPad app. No distractions from the task at hand.
     
  37. Taylor Murphy

    Taylor Murphy Filing Flight Plan

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    Absolutely! I've used it more for simulator practice at the moment since a lot of it is above my skill level. But several other pilot friends have tried it and like it. I also use it whenever I am flying copilot with them and try to follow along with inputs
     
  38. BigBadLou

    BigBadLou Final Approach

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    Wait, are you saying there is no room on them Ynterwebs for blatant misinformation? Boooo! :(
    :D

    A) What is this obsolete outdated MOV file format? How do you even play it? :D
    B) Looking at that keyboard that changes its layout for example for taxi instructions, that would not be easy to use if I have to search for letters while listening to the taxi clearance. Changing layouts hinder performance, not a good idea in case of transcribing radio transmissions.
    C) While the implementation looks spiffy, I think this is a solution in search of a non-existent problem.
     
  39. AggieMike88

    AggieMike88 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    The original "I don't know it all" of aviation.
    Isn't that the mantra of many Millenials?
     
  40. rrrrr

    rrrrr Filing Flight Plan

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    OK, I'll stop continuing to out this guy as a shill. You just recently soloed? And you've been waiting how long for an "aviation keyboard app" and it "finally" happened? (your title, your words) Come on. Seriously.

    He's not even in the airmen database. Yeah, I know it can take a few weeks to show up, but I'm not even sure he's telling the truth there.

    :no: