Attitude indicator died, going to duct tape an iPod in its place

dmspilot said:
Was he a member of the forum? I don't remember his username, but vaguely remember someone trying to use "an iPad speed readout as a landing aid." That's obviously groundspeed...seems like the idea is utterly a non-starter.
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He is most famous for landing to buy gas, not finding any, taking off to go somewhere else to buy gas with less than 30 minutes of fuel on board, and then suing the aircraft manufacturer after a fuel starvation accident.
 
Salty said:
With this kind of thing you might just beat me at that. To the grave. Again, having no instrument is far better than having one that isn't accurate.
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Accurate or certified? You seem to be confusing the two words.
I'm flying an aircraft that is not required to have one at all. I'm flying it during the day, locally, with a clear horizon. I'm glancing down at the phone which is displaying an instrument (that I don't use while flying VFR anyway) to see how it compares to the actual horizon. I think I'll be ok. BTW, it is doing an excellent job of matching real life.
 
Kiddo's Driver said:
Accurate or certified? You seem to be confusing the two words.
I'm flying an aircraft that is not required to have one at all. I'm flying it during the day, locally, with a clear horizon. I'm glancing down at the phone which is displaying an instrument (that I don't use while flying VFR anyway) to see how it compares to the actual horizon. I think I'll be ok. BTW, it is doing an excellent job of matching real life.
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This is the third time I've repeated this, but you don't seem to have picked up on it yet.

An inaccurate instrument is far worse than no instrument at all. If you don't need it then why are you replacing it with something unreliable?
 
Salty said:
This is the third time I've repeated this, but you don't seem to have picked up on it yet.

An inaccurate instrument is far worse than no instrument at all. If you don't need it then why are you replacing it with something unreliable?
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Dear salty, I'm not replacing it. I'm expirementing with a piece of uncertified backup equipment. It is clear that you have not picked up on that. It is not installed. It was duct taped over an instrument that itself has the face completely covered with an INOP label. You keep bringing up "inaccurate instrument" like the ADI is something that I need or is required for VFR flight. If I was the only person in the plane and was shooting approaches with it, THAT would be stupid & illegal. If it will make you feel any better, I'll duct tape it to a blank spot on my avionics stack next time I go fly. That way I can stare at the inop label on my inoperable ADI. Oh, wait! I don't look at the ADI when flying VFR! I have that giant ADI (the actual horizon) to look at instead. What I did do was glance down at it every once in a while to see how it compare to the actual horizon. Guess what? IT TRACKED DEAD ON! Looks like it was a useful exercise. Just one more piece of information about the state of the industry. Now for the Part 23 rewrite to kick in (everyone take a deep breath because it's in the FAA's hands) and allow better than steam gauge products to hit the non-experimental market at steam gauge or cheaper prices.
These are already on the market, are better than steam gauges, cost about the same as a steam gauge, and are in use as BACKUP ADIs. I bet they are the leaders out of the gate once the rewrite happens.
http://www.dynonavionics.com/pocket-panel.php

Don't worry. I'm using the big ADI in front of my windshield to fly my plane. Not a Stratus 2S/iPhone combo.
I'm pretty sure I've said that WAY more than three times so far.
 
It's nonsense like this that spurs the FAA to try to regulate.

It tracks dead on until it doesn't. You don't need it until you do. It won't kill you until you need it and it tells you that level is actually a 5 degree descent.

I'd wager that instrument is on your aircraft's MEL. In which case, simply placarding it inop does not make it ok to tape an iPhone on top of it and call the aircraft airworthy.
 
Salty said:
It's nonsense like this that spurs the FAA to try to regulate.

It tracks dead on until it doesn't. You don't need it until you do. It won't kill you until you need it and it tells you that level is actually a 5 degree descent.

I'd wager that instrument is on your aircraft's MEL. In which case, simply placarding it inop does not make it ok to tape an iPhone on top of it and call the aircraft airworthy.
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Nonsense like reading the rules & following them. Yep, you got me!

It's listed as optional in the equipment list. I checked.

Salty, I have not stalked your posts or your profile so I say this assuming that your name is what it is for a reason, and that you have heard before and understand what I am about to say.

Noted.
 
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Kiddo's Driver said:
Just for you Salty.
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Ok. I still recommend you cover the instrument instead of fooling with iPhones. You are better off without it than having it fall off the console and distracting you on a bouncy final.

I'm sorry to have offended you by trying to convince you that no information is better than wrong information, but maybe another reader will gain from reading the thread.
 
Oh yeah, but the main one has already been confirmed several times.
 
Again he isn't using it, he is experimenting in VFR conditions to get a sense of the reliability as an experiment and public service, should anyone find themselves needing to rely on said configuration due to unplanned AI failure...


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gsengle said:
Again he isn't using it, he is experimenting in VFR conditions to get a sense of the reliability as an experiment and public service, should anyone find themselves needing to rely on said configuration due to unplanned AI failure...


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You don't think you'd be better off using the other instruments rather than trusting one that certainly will not work correctly if not calibrated until after you've lost the actual horizon?
 
Depends on how well it works and what instruments you've lost. It's not that black and white...

My backup is a panel docked dynon pocket panel. It's on if I'm in IMC.


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gsengle said:
Depends on how well it works and what instruments you've lost. It's not that black and white...

My backup is a panel docked dynon pocket panel. It's on if I'm in IMC.


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The only instrument I was aware we were discussing was the AI.
 
gsengle said:
smh


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Well, the AI is the only one you referenced in your post, so I'm confused as to what you're shaking your head at.

gsengle said:
Again he isn't using it, he is experimenting in VFR conditions to get a sense of the reliability as an experiment and public service, should anyone find themselves needing to rely on said configuration due to unplanned AI failure...


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gsengle said:
Depends on how well it works and what instruments you've lost. It's not that black and white...

My backup is a panel docked dynon pocket panel. It's on if I'm in IMC.


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Do you think an iPhone is even close to being as reliable as the dynon? I think it's orders of magnitude less reliable.
 
HE IS EXPERIMENTING FOR OUR COLLECTIVE EDIFICATION. FOR THE RELATIVE VALUE OF STRATUS.

I can't say that anyone might find themselves with any combination of issues in IMC???


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Salty said:
Well, the AI is the only one you referenced in your post, so I'm confused as to what you're shaking your head at.
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Because the dynon pocket panel IS an AI. I linked it In a post at the top of this page. He talked about it & might have linked to it on the first page.
 

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Checkout_my_Six said:
just hope no one calls....or sends a text message in the middle
of all that. :eek::confused::eek:
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I had the same thoughts. I've stuck my iphone up there synced to the stratus 2 on a few occasions just to try it out (like the OP / in VFR). In IMC if you get a call... "SIRI, HANG THE F UP! HANG UP SIRI!!! HANG UP!!!"
 
The fact is that AI failures kill pilots. We need to understand what our options are. Yes we should all be able to fly an approach with just a turn coordinator and a compass. But personally I believe in stacking the odds in my favor in every way I can.

I have the pocket panel to make life easier, I link my ForeFlight to the very accurate gps in my L3 Lynx. You can bet that I'll use both as primary if necessary in an emergency...


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I think I'm not following your logic....? When exactly would you use it?
gsengle said:
The fact is that AI failures kill pilots. We need to understand what our options are. Yes we should all be able to fly an approach with just a turn coordinator and a compass. But personally I believe in stacking the odds in my favor in every way I can.
I have the pocket panel to make life easier, I link my ForeFlight to the very accurate gps in my L3 Lynx. You can bet that I'll use both as primary if necessary in an emergency...
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gsengle said:
Note: you need an external ahars, the sensors in the iPhone are very insufficient...
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gsengle said:
Some of the discussion was that the only way this would work was with a portable ahars like the Stratus II
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gsengle said:
I wouldn't use it except VFR or as an emergency backup...
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gsengle said:
Again he isn't using it, he is experimenting in VFR conditions to get a sense of the reliability as an experiment and public service, should anyone find themselves needing to rely on said configuration due to unplanned AI failure...
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It depends on how reliable I believe it to be. Me? I have other options like the pocket panel and don't intend to get a Stratus. For others for instance I fly a dutchess where both the ai and dg are on a single vacuum pump. If that pump failed in hard IMC I'd sure consider the ahars in the Stratus as a possible backup again pending reports of how well it works.

I was an acquaintance of a bo pilot killed by a simple ai failure over Long Island. Maybe he wasn't proficient enough but a backup ai, certified or not, might have helped him.

One thing for sure I'd want it set up tested and running before entering IMC...


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gsengle said:
It depends on how reliable I believe it to be. Me? I have other options like the pocket panel and don't intend to get a Stratus. For others for instance I fly a dutchess where both the ai and dg are on a single vacuum pump. If that pump failed in hard IMC I'd sure consider the ahars in the Stratus as a possible backup again pending reports of how well it works.

I was an acquaintance of a bo pilot killed by a simple ai failure over Long Island. Maybe he wasn't proficient enough but a backup ai, certified or not, might have helped him.

One thing for sure I'd want it set up tested and running before entering IMC...


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Nothing at all wrong with this logic. No one here is advocating a duct taped iphone to REPLACE a certified primary or available backup instrument if/when required legally or for your own personal minimums. Yeah I totally understand the logic that if I have a vacuum failure in my 6 pack plane that lose my AI I should be able to navigate using the electric TC and vertical card compass (and I've trained for this and can do so). However, if an i-phone or i-pad, etc combined with a solid AHRS source (Stratus 2 for example) and can serve as a tertiary backup then why the hell not??? Less than 6 months ago I had a standard 6 pack in my Toga with an old inop RC Allen electric AI. My plane had ONE certified Attitude reference. Since then I've tossed the TC for a Garmin G5 and replaced my GNS530W for an IFD550 (Has glass panel like Sythetic Vision). The IFD will also push the "glass panel" to the IFD100 app to run on my panel mount I-pad.

I've gone from one AI to a panel full of attitude and I love it. Nothing wrong with backing up the backup even with non-certified items, as long as you've practiced with them and understand their limitations and likely areas of weakness.
 
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