ATP-CTP

[Travis.]

Can you take the ATP written course on the first day of the ATP-CTP course or do you have to complete the course to its entirety?

 

[jordane93]

You have to wait until completion of the CTP course

 

[MauleSkinner]

I’d also suggest reviewing Tasks I.C. through I.G. ahead of time, as these are the tasks that the CTP course is supposed to cover, and I haven’t been overly-impressed with the level of knowledge applicants take away from the CTP courses.

 

[Dave Theisen]

I’d also suggest reviewing Tasks I.C. through I.G. ahead of time, as these are the tasks that the CTP course is supposed to cover, and I haven’t been overly-impressed with the level of knowledge applicants take away from the CTP courses.

Everyone I’ve talked to that’s been through the course has said it’s a joke and doesn’t do a damn thing to prepare you, for or determine if you are ready to be an ATP.

But we are all much safer because of it.

 

[jordane93]

Everyone I’ve talked to that’s been through the course has said it’s a joke and doesn’t do a damn thing to prepare you, for or determine if you are ready to be an ATP.

But we are all much safer because of it.

It’s death by PowerPoint and retired airline guys swapping “so there I was..” stories. At least that’s what it was in 2016 when I went through it.

 

[MauleSkinner]

Everyone I’ve talked to that’s been through the course has said it’s a joke and doesn’t do a damn thing to prepare you, for or determine if you are ready to be an ATP.

But we are all much safer because of it.

That’s why I’m suggesting familiarity with the ACS…if you know what you’re supposed to be learning, you might be able to pick it out.

 

[35 AoA]

It’s death by PowerPoint and retired airline guys swapping “so there I was..” stories. At least that’s what it was in 2016 when I went through it.

That was my experience as well. Other silver lining was that they didn't seem to care that people were actively using the time to study for the written

 

[AggieMike88]

Can you take the ATP written course on the first day of the ATP-CTP course or do you have to complete the course to its entirety?

I'm in my ATP-CTP class this week at ATP Jets in Irving, TX.

8-day footprint.

Days 1-4 are in the classroom as we are shown the FAA mandated material comprised of various videos and the instructor providing additional connect the dots insight.

Topics are:

• High Altitude Aerodynamics
• Stall Prevention and Recovery Training
• Upset Prevention and Recovery Training (UPRT)
• Airplane Weather Detection Systems
• Air Carrier Low-Visibility Operations
• Physiology/Fitness for Duty (Overview)
• Communications
• Checklist Philosophy
• Operational Control (Overview)
• Minimum Equipment List (MEL) and Configuration Deviation List (CDL)
• Ground Operations
• Turbine Engines (Overview)
• Transport Airplane Performance
• Automation (Overview)
• Navigation and Flightpath Warning Systems (Overview)
• Leadership/Professional Development
• Crew Resource Management (CRM)
• Safety Culture/Voluntary Safety Programs (Overview)

At the end there is a 30-question quiz. And the answers are reviewed before the quiz is taken

Days 5, 6, and 7 are 5 different sim activities in both FTDs (stationary sims) and full motion sims. Topics in the syllabus are:

• Automation
• Navigation
• Runway Safety and Adverse Weather
• Runway Safety and Adverse Weather continued (1 Hour), High Altitude Operations, Stall and Upset Prevention and Recovery (1 Hour)
• High Altitude Operations, Stall and Upset Prevention and Recovery continued (2 Hours)

Day 8 is for taking the knowledge exam at the in-house testing center.

Written test prep is done using the Sheppard Air product.

 

[Brad Z]

I assume with the job market the way it is nobody's actually paying out of pocket to get their ATP, correct?

pre 2016, getting the ATP was a matter of taking the written, brushing up on your multi instrument flying, and passing the practical test. With the ATP-CTP, I assume folks just do that in conjunction with their regional new hire training.

 

[Zeldman]

pre 2016, getting the ATP was a matter of taking the written, brushing up on your multi instrument flying, and passing the practical test. With the ATP-CTP, I assume folks just do that in conjunction with their regional new hire training.

I did the ATP (written already done) in 2003. It was 3 days, 2 says of learning the Seminole and instrument refresher followed by the checkride. The examiner even took the controls between approaches so I could get set up for the next one. And the single engine part was done in a flight training device, and suddenly I am an ATP.

 

[MauleSkinner]

I did the ATP (written already done) in 2003. It was 3 days, 2 says of learning the Seminole and instrument refresher followed by the checkride. The examiner even took the controls between approaches so I could get set up for the next one. And the single engine part was done in a flight training device, and suddenly I am an ATP.

When I did mine (about 10 years before), I can’t say for sure that I even got training…it was just another Part 135 checkride.

 

[AggieMike88]

I assume with the job market the way it is nobody's actually paying out of pocket to get their ATP, correct?

pre 2016, getting the ATP was a matter of taking the written, brushing up on your multi instrument flying, and passing the practical test. With the ATP-CTP, I assume folks just do that in conjunction with their regional new hire training.

For my situation, the airline is paying for the ATP-CTP class, access to Sheppard Air, and the exam fee.

The practical exam activities happen during post indoc activities and sim training.

 

[jordane93]

I assume with the job market the way it is nobody's actually paying out of pocket to get their ATP, correct?

pre 2016, getting the ATP was a matter of taking the written, brushing up on your multi instrument flying, and passing the practical test. With the ATP-CTP, I assume folks just do that in conjunction with their regional new hire training.

I’ve heard of some military guys using the GI bill to pay for the CTP course if they want to bypass the regionals and go straight to a major or legacy. But pretty much no one is paying for it out of pocket. It’s really not necessary.

 

[AggieMike88]

With today's sim session in a full motion 737-800 sim, my coursework for the class is done. Tomorrow is the written exam.

Today's session included several rounds of upset training, including dealing with the aftermath of flying through an A380's wake.

Final two tasks was shooting the ILS 36L into KMEM in the bottom of Cat II conditions using the auto land setup. Then low visibility taxi to the gate.

The auto landing tech is fricking amazing to see happen while sitting in the front office.

I totally get that these sessions were very introductory level. But it was helpful (and humbling) to see "behind the curtain" on the training I will be receiving over the next several months.

For the curious, I attached the "logbook" that ATP Jets provided. Now I just need to read up on how to configure MFB and LTP so the entries work correctly and make sense.

 

[Larry in TN]

The auto landing tech is fricking amazing to see happen while sitting in the front office.

I laughed at this comment. The 737's autoland capability is mentally challenged compared to the modern systems due to the limitations of the 737's systems architecture that dates back to the 707 and 727 designs.

The 737's autoland is classified at fail-passive. More modern systems are fail-active. The primary difference is that the 737 has two sets of data and systems. Two IRUs, two FMCs, two flight data computers, two autopilots, etc. The newer planes have three sets of everything which allows the three systems to isolate with the two good systems taking over when a failure occurs in one of them.

The practical difference is two fold.

1. The 737 has a 50' DH where you must see the runway to continue to land. Fail-active systems have a 100' AH (Alert Height) where you don't have to see anything, you just verify that the autoland status indication is still "Land 3" (Beoing's terminology). After the AH, you can lose an engine, lose a hydraulic system, lose an electric system, etc., and the autoland system can continue to autoland on the remaining systems.

2. The 737 can not track the centerline after touchdown. This is why you must "see to land". At touchdown, the Captain disconnects the autopilot and controls the aircraft throughout the landing roll. On fail-active systems, the autoland system will manage the landing roll and will bring the airplane to a stop on the centerline of the runway. You actually have to disconnect the autopilot to taxi off the runway because, with it on, it won't turn off the centerline.

So, how'd you like those Vref speeds in the -800? My record is a target speed (Vref+wind additive) of 165kts on the Stadium Visual 29 at EWR.

I call the 737 the airplane that only an accountant could love. And they do love it. That's why there's so many of them.

 

[jordane93]

I laughed at this comment. The 737's autoland capability is mentally challenged compared to the modern systems due to the limitations of the 737's systems architecture that dates back to the 707 and 727 designs.

The 737's autoland is classified at fail-passive. More modern systems are fail-active. The primary difference is that the 737 has two sets of data and systems. Two IRUs, two FMCs, two flight data computers, two autopilots, etc. The newer planes have three sets of everything which allows the three systems to isolate with the two good systems taking over when a failure occurs in one of them.

The practical difference is two fold.

1. The 737 has a 50' DH where you must see the runway to continue to land. Fail-active systems have a 100' AH (Alert Height) where you don't have to see anything, you just verify that the autoland status indication is still "Land 3" (Beoing's terminology). After the AH, you can lose an engine, lose a hydraulic system, lose an electric system, etc., and the autoland system can continue to autoland on the remaining systems.

2. The 737 can not track the centerline after touchdown. This is why you must "see to land". At touchdown, the Captain disconnects the autopilot and controls the aircraft throughout the landing roll. On fail-active systems, the autoland system will manage the landing roll and will bring the airplane to a stop on the centerline of the runway. You actually have to disconnect the autopilot to taxi off the runway because, with it on, it won't turn off the centerline.

So, how'd you like those Vref speeds in the -800? My record is a target speed (Vref+wind additive) of 165kts on the Stadium Visual 29 at EWR.

I call the 737 the airplane that only an accountant could love. And they do love it. That's why there's so many of them.

But you can hand fly a CATIII approach with the HUD!

 

[AggieMike88]

Did pretty good on the exam…. 94%