ATITPPA origin finally discovered?

Discussion in 'Flight Following' started by Let'sgoflying!, Nov 9, 2022.

  1. Let'sgoflying!

    Let'sgoflying! Touchdown! Greaser!

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    "Make frequent radio calls. Request any traffic in the vicinity of the airport identify themselves so that you are aware of each other’s presence."

    maybe I missed a discussion on 'where' this came from but this is from the NBAA site, a pdf of Best Practices.

    Oh, please let's not discuss the benefit/abomination that it is. Please.
    Just wanted to share, and maybe discuss it's origin.

    Is it not true that the AIM still recommends against this? I was against the AIM micromanaging us in this way but I was not in particularly in favor of it's use and I've never uttered it.
     

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  2. Piperonca

    Piperonca Cleared for Takeoff

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  3. Zeldman

    Zeldman Touchdown! Greaser!

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    When Great Lakes Regional used to fly into Gallup, the pilot operating the radio would always end each radio call with ''Any Traffic In The Area Please Respond''...

    I would respond, then ask if they are a student pilot on a cross country. Man, that would pee off those guys.!!
     
  4. Let'sgoflying!

    Let'sgoflying! Touchdown! Greaser!

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  5. Piperonca

    Piperonca Cleared for Takeoff

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    Not discussing, just chewing :popcorn:
     
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  6. MauleSkinner

    MauleSkinner Touchdown! Greaser!

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    It was actually a collaboration between GLA and UND that started it.
     
  7. Initial Fix

    Initial Fix Line Up and Wait

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    I often wondered if this was a regional thing that grew. When did the AIM first reference the phrase and not to use it?
     
  8. OneCharlieTango

    OneCharlieTango Line Up and Wait

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    It would be nice to find the origin of “last call” and waterboard those responsible.
     
  9. Tools

    Tools Cleared for Takeoff

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    Of course it’s dumb. I always ask those NOT on the frequency to respond, in the interest of thoroughness.

    Well, what i mean is I would ask that if I had a radio.
     
  10. Bob Noel

    Bob Noel Touchdown! Greaser!

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    just pretend to key the mic and say the words out loud.... and then go back to making engine/prop noises...

    :)
     
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  11. dbahn

    dbahn Line Up and Wait

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    I think the phrase arose when FBOs no longer provided airport advisories on Unicom, probably because of liability concerns. People were used to being notified of "active" runway and traffic in the area. Using the common frequency to try to get that same information was the consequence.
     
  12. MauleSkinner

    MauleSkinner Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Not more than 15 years ago, I think.
     
  13. MauleSkinner

    MauleSkinner Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I was told it was a cultural accommodation for a training contract that GLA and UND had.
     
  14. dbahn

    dbahn Line Up and Wait

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    What's the "GLA"?

    I do remember when FBOs readily provided traffic information, but I don't know when that stopped or if was just a gradual change, but the pilot calling in would typically ask, "what's your active?" and would usually get a response to include known traffic at the field.
     
  15. Salty

    Salty Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Full disclosure. If the radio has been really dead and someone does this, I've been known to respond "buy low, sell high?" I mean, they asked to be advised.
     
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  16. Salty

    Salty Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Would it be ok if instead of ATITPPA I asked for a gouge report?
     
  17. Salty

    Salty Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Sorry, I know, breaking the rules. But honestly, the origin is most likely unknown. Who would admit to it?
     
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  18. Half Fast

    Half Fast Touchdown! Greaser!

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    “One word. Plastics.”
     
  19. Brad Z

    Brad Z Final Approach

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    I started flying in 1993. AWOS existed, but it was much rarer than it is now. It was commonplace to call unicom 10 miles out and ask for an airport advisory. Typically someone in the FBO would glance at the wind sock, or look at the wind monitor readout and say something like "winds favoring 34, no reported traffic" or "traffic using 16, you've got a cessna and a cub in the pattern". As AWOS became more ubiquitous, people atopped asking for airport advisories. I understand some FBOs stopped doing them for liability reasons, but I don't recall ever getting turned down for a advisory, I just remember not doing them after a while.

    With fast moving business aircraft that are coming off a frequency change from ATC, they don't have a lot of time to monitor the frequency and wait for someone for pipe up, so it actually makes some sense for them to ping others in the pattern for a quick situational report. It's when the junior flight school CFIs started emulating the charter pilots by uttering that dreaded phrase that things started getting out of control. A dozen flight school ATITPPA got old real quick. The AIM admonition against the phrase was added around 2007 I believe.
     
  20. Salty

    Salty Touchdown! Greaser!

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    This seems totally plausible. I actually have gotten an advisory from an FBO in the last couple years, upon my initial call, they responded with traffic and weather.
     
  21. Brad Z

    Brad Z Final Approach

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    I don't know why, but this one is truly nails on the chalkboard for me.
     
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  22. TCABM

    TCABM En-Route

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    I know. Why stop serving 30mins before the bar closes?
     
  23. luvflyin

    luvflyin Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Was it a Unicom?
     
  24. MauleSkinner

    MauleSkinner Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Great Lakes Airlines
     
  25. Shepherd

    Shepherd Final Approach

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    I'm not sure where I stand on this.
    If I'm flying into an uncontrolled airspace I want to know if anyone is lurking in the area
    On the other hand, this area has a lot of airfields, and most of them are on 122.800. On a clear day I can hear them in a 50 mile circle around me, and they don't always identify to what field they are turning final.
     
  26. TommyG

    TommyG Pattern Altitude

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    How about using color of the plane? Was flying last night and a white Cessna called he was on downwind. It was dark out, how the hell you think I can see the color of your plane. And the white Cessna following the other 3 white Cessna any other time?
     
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  27. Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe

    Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe Touchdown! Greaser!

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    look up at whoever was hanging around, ask "what is our active?" then respond with "xxxxxx is landing xx with local traffic."

    :)
     
  28. dbahn

    dbahn Line Up and Wait

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    The idea is that if people self-announce their position (AIM guidance) you WILL know if anyone is lurking in the area, except for NORDO aircraft, who will NEVER advise that they're in the area.
     
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  29. dbahn

    dbahn Line Up and Wait

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    Maybe everyone should start an anonymous response to "Last Call" with something terse like "unnecessary".
     
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  30. MauleSkinner

    MauleSkinner Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I usually use “about time”. ;)
     
  31. Half Fast

    Half Fast Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Maybe we should use, "All NORDO aircraft in the pattern please advise."
     
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  32. Pilawt

    Pilawt Final Approach

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    "Promise?"
     
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  33. Llewtrah381

    Llewtrah381 Line Up and Wait

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    The proper reply to THAT would be “OK, Boomer…”:D
     
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  34. MauleSkinner

    MauleSkinner Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Unfortunately I missed “Boomer” by a couple of years.
     
  35. Llewtrah381

    Llewtrah381 Line Up and Wait

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    And for the record, I’m solidly in the middle of it
     
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  36. keen9

    keen9 Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Isn't that why you made a radio call in the first place. Isn't it just expected that other traffic in the area will also communicate? The idiot bombing around the pattern making calls but not actually listening isn't going to change just because you add a lot of extra words to your radio call.
     
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  37. Salty

    Salty Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I heard a guy make no less than 6 calls coming in to our airport last weekend while I was in the hangar asking what runway was being used. There wasn't much time between them for anyone to even answer. There were no other airplanes around.
     
  38. luvflyin

    luvflyin Touchdown! Greaser!

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    How about when someone says 'last call' say 'I'll take a Wild Turkey with a Beer back'
     
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  39. ateamer

    ateamer Cleared for Takeoff

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    Recently I’ve heard something even more annoying : “Taking the active for immediate departure.” Followed by lining up and sitting there while setting power, running a checklist and eventually rolling.
     
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  40. ElPaso Pilot

    ElPaso Pilot Pattern Altitude

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    I'm not on the fence about this.

    atitppa.png
     
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