Aspen or G5

DesertNomad

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DesertNomad
I am doing a major panel upgrade and adding a 750+255 as well as a new 350c audio panel and ST-901 GPSS. I was going to do an Aspen unit but held off thinking the G5 might work out too when they come up with the autopilot connection to my STEC-30.

The Aspen is also 10 years old. Does Aspen have anything coming down the pipeline to update it perhaps with a higher resolution screen? Any thoughts on replacing the AI/DG with glass?

Next year's project is to do one of these or something similar. I wanted it this year, but Garmin's timing didn't match mine.
 
Dual G5s look surprisingly capable in my opinion. I remember reading something about IFR and the dual G5 setup though. Maybe someine can chime in while I google that up.
 
I personally would go with the dual G5's if pulling the trigger right now. I have one so far and like it. With 2 it will give you dual independent battery back up as opposed to aspen all eggs in one basket if you are just going to do one of them.
 
Garmin's G500/600 dual screen 6-pack replacement is equally "ancient". If there is one thing we have learned from the GNS 430/530 and some of the earlier King avionics, it's the ability to support/replace the display screens that life-limits these digital devices.

An executive with one of the larger Garmin dealers told me Garmin had "no current plans" to update the display on the G500/600. But I'm not sure Garmin would make it public in advance even if it did. Seems to me the G5 is going to replace the G500 for all but those doing a lot of hard IFR and wanting SVT front and center, instead of off to the right on a 750.

Is the HI/DG version of the G5 available now, or is that still in the works?
 
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I'd bet that the G3X is currently scheduled to be certified, a cheaper option then developing/certifying a new G500. Nice thing is the new autopilot and G5 already work with it, and they can use the G5 as a backup.
 
I would research the Garmin G5 very carefully. There is a lot of misinformation ,
For instance I suspect the autopilot interface will be strictly Garmin and requires all new servos, unless you know something different.
Meanwhile, Aspen is tried and proven with many, many configuration options. Just sayin'
 
I'd bet that the G3X is currently scheduled to be certified, a cheaper option then developing/certifying a new G500. Nice thing is the new autopilot and G5 already work with it, and they can use the G5 as a backup.

The G3X would require panel modification whereas the Aspen sits in an existing AI/DG position.
 
lol, or wait for the dynon sky view for certified.

Doing a major panel upgrade right now, you got to be crazy or have money to through away.
 
lol, or wait for the dynon sky view for certified.

Doing a major panel upgrade right now, you got to be crazy or have money to through away.

I wanted to get rid of my 503W while it was still worth something to get a 750 and replace my aging KX155 with Garmin's new 255. Added a new engine monitor too. I'll wait on the vacuum system until Aspen and Garmin have a clearer picture.
 
Id wager that 530W will be worth some money for a good while
 
Prior to the G5 HSI with autopilot interface capability I'd have leaned towards the Aspen, but now that the the GAD29B is here and the G5 HSI offers GPSS to those of us with older autopilots for such an inexpensive price, I'd go with the G5s. I'm a little biased because I already have the G5 ADI and really like it.

The issues I have with going with Aspen anytime in the short term are:

1) It's a pretty long-in-the-tooth product at this point with seemingly nothing in the R&D pipe w/r/t upgrades, better capabilities, etc.
2) Aspen really stings you on the upgrade prices. For example, the converter for the AP is around $2500, I believe. While they're currently giving away the SVT mod in an apparent bid to compete with Garmin, the fully upgraded Aspen costs a ton compared to the basic dual G5 setup. It's also quite a bit more to install the Aspen vs. the G5. When you compare the two at the end of the day you have to make sure to add in all of the extra costs of going with Aspen. It's not just a little bit more expensive, it's probably 2.5x more, out the door, at the end of the day.
3) Aspen is facing its first major challenge from a large mfgr since they introduced their product. Garmin hasn't really been interested in the bottom end of the market until the last year or two, and they have the resources to stand and fight for the long term. Aspen is a boutique manufacturer by comparison and will have to be lean and mean in response to Garmin's challenges. I haven't seen any hint of serious price reduction on the EFD1000 which is what will be required, in my opinion, to keep that unit market-viable (not giving away various add-ons like SVT and software AOA.) In my view a price cut across the board of at LEAST 35% will be necessary when you compare the units side by side, but my bet is Aspen won't do that.

If you have to pull the trigger today, I'd say the dual G5s are the way to go. The G5 featureset is more basic, but not by much, honestly. The Aspen will display traffic/terrain/etc. but to be perfectly frank, those are not compelling features in my view, particularly on such small displays. I fly some pretty fancy equipment at work which is capable of doing all of those things and I usually leave traffic, terrain, everything short of weather radar on my MFD only. I prefer to leave the HSI "clean" and uncluttered. At most I may want a bearing pointer which the G5 will do.

In my Twin Comanche I've offloaded almost all of the important extras like the aforementioned terrain, traffic and weather to two iPads. One's a Mini, one's an iPad Pro 9.7. Those screens are much better, and the interface far easier to manage SPIFR, than via panel interface. I have a GTN650 which I rarely interact with at all and usually leave on the "Default Nav" page -- don't really even use the Map view hardly at all, again because of the iPads. As a result the need to have this data all over your panel and all over your primary instrumentation really isn't there, in my view.

So to me the G5 makes sense. Being able to buy the HSI and GAD29B converter for under $3k is mind-blowing compared to options we've had in the last decade. That's the TOTAL price. No hidden fees. And it interfaces with the majority of legacy autopilots out there. And it's relatively simple to install. My bet is you can get dual G5s along with the GAD29B installed for under $10k. No way that will happen with the Aspen opened up with similar or greater functionality. Perhaps Aspen needs to come up with a new package of unlocks which bridge the gap between their basic VFR unit and the maxed out "Pro" package -- something that gives the user true HSI functionality and a bearing pointer, ala the G5 setup, for around $4k. That still leaves the $2500 converter they sell as an outlier but at least they'd be more competitive price-wise.

All of that said, if you can wait 8-12 months there might be some movement here that will pay off for folks who are patient. I for one am curious to see what, if anything, Aspen will do, and I'm also looking to see how the G5 performs with various older autopilots out in the field. I think there's only a small chance I'll deviate from my goal of seeing two G5s playing nicely together in my panel, but there is a chance. The real question is whether Aspen decides to keep their head in the sand or start reacting to Garmin's aggressive market maneuvering.
 
I would research the Garmin G5 very carefully. There is a lot of misinformation ,
For instance I suspect the autopilot interface will be strictly Garmin and requires all new servos, unless you know something different.
Meanwhile, Aspen is tried and proven with many, many configuration options. Just sayin'

Nope, the Garmin AP interface (the GAD29B) supports:

Century II/III; IV (AC); IV (DC); 21/31/41; and 2000; Cessna 400B and 300 IFCS/400 IFCS; Honeywell (Bendix King) KAP 100/150/200; KFC 150/200; KAP 140; and KFC 225; S-TEC 20/30/40/50/55/60-1/60-2/65; 60 PSS; and 55X.

No need to buy any new servos or anything of the sort. Just hook it up to your old AP and boom, you have GPSS in "heading" mode. I can't wait!
 
All of that said, if you can wait 8-12 months there might be some movement here that will pay off for folks who are patient. I for one am curious to see what, if anything, Aspen will do, and I'm also looking to see how the G5 performs with various older autopilots out in the field.

Yup, I'm waiting. I got my radios and engine monitor with this upgrade and sprung for the ST901 to get GPSS while I wait for the dust to settle on the best way to replace my AI/DG with glass.

Does the G5 have an Air Data Computer to be able to get the wind conditions during flight like the Aspen? I don't think it does... so what is the best way to get an ADC?

Can the G5 HSI show two pointers (for example a course and offset for the current GPS track or localizer, and another arrow pointing to a VOR)? This would be really useful for the local FMG8 departure from Reno which flies a localizer heading for three miles (typically loaded in Nav1) and then does a 135-degree left turn to fly to a VOR (typically in Nav 2). Just about everyone gets this departure from here.
 
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Nope, the Garmin AP interface (the GAD29B) supports:

Century II/III; IV (AC); IV (DC); 21/31/41; and 2000; Cessna 400B and 300 IFCS/400 IFCS; Honeywell (Bendix King) KAP 100/150/200; KFC 150/200; KAP 140; and KFC 225; S-TEC 20/30/40/50/55/60-1/60-2/65; 60 PSS; and 55X.

No need to buy any new servos or anything of the sort. Just hook it up to your old AP and boom, you have GPSS in "heading" mode. I can't wait!

This looks really interesting.
Couple of questions:

- The G5 has a built in GPS for ground speed and ground track. When you installed it as your primary attitude instrument did you have to install another GPS antenna for it? Or can it get that information from your 650 instead? [Edit added: Disregard. Garmin says the antenna is optional and a WAAS interface to a Garmin GNS or GTN navigator can be substituted]

-What type of legacy autopilot do you have in your Twin Comanche? I have a C III in my Aztec, it works just fine and I have a complete set of spares for it. For owners like us the age and value of the airframe makes it challenging to justify the high cost of changing the autopilot, so the GAD29B GPSS is pretty attractive.
 
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Yup, I'm waiting. I got my radios and engine monitor with this upgrade and sprung for the ST901 to get GPSS while I wait for the dust to settle on the best way to replace my AI/DG with glass.

Does the G5 have an Air Data Computer to be able to get the wind conditions during flight like the Aspen? I don't think it does... so what is the best way to get an ADC?

Can the G5 HSI show two pointers (for example a course and offset for the current GPS track or localizer, and another arrow pointing to a VOR)? This would be really useful for the local FMG8 departure from Reno which flies a localizer heading for three miles (typically loaded in Nav1) and then does a 135-degree left turn to fly to a VOR (typically in Nav 2). Just about everyone gets this departure from here.

No ADC...get out the old E6B...we have another thread on this.
It's one nav/com only, so you can't have 2 VOR needles. And since your 430,650 obs can be gps or vor, but not both...it's 1 only. But with GPS you don't need to use intercepting lines of bearings...so they don't support it.
All the new stuff is GPS only anyway, it's only dinosaurs that use those the radio nav stuff anyway
 
Yup, I'm waiting. I got my radios and engine monitor with this upgrade and sprung for the ST901 to get GPSS while I wait for the dust to settle on the best way to replace my AI/DG with glass.

Does the G5 have an Air Data Computer to be able to get the wind conditions during flight like the Aspen? I don't think it does... so what is the best way to get an ADC?
...

Doesn't it have to have an ADC to process the pitot-static system inputs it displays -altitude, airspeed, vertical speed?
 
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No ADC...get out the old E6B...we have another thread on this.
It's one nav/com only, so you can't have 2 VOR needles. And since your 430,650 obs can be gps or vor, but not both...it's 1 only. But with GPS you don't need to use intercepting lines of bearings...so they don't support it.
All the new stuff is GPS only anyway, it's only dinosaurs that use those the radio nav stuff anyway

Well his 430w has an ADC. Just need to feed it sensor data.
 
Well his 430w has an ADC. Just need to feed it sensor data.

Seriously?

An ADC processes pitot/static and OAT inputs. I have a 430, but it has neither pitot/static inputs nor is it capable of displaying any pitot/static derived information (such as barometric altitude, airspeed, vertical speed).
 
Seriously?

An ADC processes pitot/static and OAT inputs. I have a 430, but it has neither pitot/static inputs nor is it capable of displaying any pitot/static derived information (such as barometric altitude, airspeed, vertical speed).
seriously

and amazingly enough it usually agrees with the Aspen on winds
 
seriously

and amazingly enough it usually agrees with the Aspen on winds

Perfect!

I'm heading to the airport this afternoon to rip out my airspeed indicator, altimeter and VSI. No need for them if I can use the amazingly agreeable 430. :rolleyes:
 
Perfect!

I'm heading to the airport this afternoon to rip out my airspeed indicator, altimeter and VSI. No need for them if I can use the amazingly agreeable 430. :rolleyes:
430w bubba, 430w. And I never said it displayed airspeed, altimeter, and VSI. I said that it has an ADC. Do try to keep up before you turn on the sarcasm.
 
I have an Aspen Pro, and love it. I've looked at the dual G5 set up in other planes, they look great too. Personally I'd go with the Aspen again, although i'm not totally sure that the extra functionality justifies the difference in cost. Might be worth talking to both to see what you can get.

On the screen resolution, I don't see any issue with the current display. As for replacing the units with glass, if you're going to the single display, you'll keep most of your steam gauge heads anyway, for backup. I found the transition a little slower than I expected, and find that I now use ALT and speed bugs much more frequently than I did before. About 10-15 hours of VFR was needed before I was comfortable flying in actual IMC with it.
 
What type of legacy autopilot do you have in your Twin Comanche? I have a C III in my Aztec, it works just fine and I have a complete set of spares for it. For owners like us the age and value of the airframe makes it challenging to justify the high cost of changing the autopilot, so the GAD29B GPSS is pretty attractive.

I have an Altimatic III - pretty much the same thing, I think, with some possible minor variations in the faceplate layout.

Yeah, the GAD29B is potential game-changer. It will turn our old autopilots into modern marvels... fly intercepts, holds, you name it, with a $700 converter. Pretty amazing!
 
I have an Altimatic III - pretty much the same thing, I think, with some possible minor variations in the faceplate layout.

Yeah, the GAD29B is potential game-changer. It will turn our old autopilots into modern marvels... fly intercepts, holds, you name it, with a $700 converter. Pretty amazing!
With the Aspen the analogue converter unit had to be matched to the autopilot. I'm curious as to whether the Garmin converters will have this requirement.
 
I have an Aspen Pro, and love it. I've looked at the dual G5 set up in other planes, they look great too. Personally I'd go with the Aspen again, although i'm not totally sure that the extra functionality justifies the difference in cost. Might be worth talking to both to see what you can get.

That is almost 100% of my issue with Aspen at this point. I was pretty close to pulling the trigger when they had a special on their VFR-only unit for $4k a few months back but software "unlocking" it to the EFD1000 would still have been quite a bit more expensive than dual G5s (which weren't the same option they are now at that time; the HSI couldn't talk to any autopilots) and the autopilot converter was $2500 then, and still is. That's just a lot of coin for something that is just a little more full-featured and integrated than the dual G5 option. Further, the G5s are designed to work nicely with the upcoming GFC 500 autopilot which won't matter for me most likely as my airplane probably won't be on the AML, but will to a lot of folks.

If the price of the EFD1000 got knocked down to around $7k and the autopilot converter down to, say $1k, I think their product would be pretty competitive, but at the present time most everyone I've talked to about the price analysis seems to agree their pricing is out of whack with the new market reality. Their business is at real risk if they're not responsive to these new changes, in my opinion.
 
I think the big thing missing from the G5s is an Air Data Computer to get winds and TAS. I almost went Aspen with my current panel upgrade but it would have added at least $7K (since I would not have needed the ST901) but I am concerned about Aspen's long term viability as a business.
 
I would research the Garmin G5 very carefully. There is a lot of misinformation ,
For instance I suspect the autopilot interface will be strictly Garmin and requires all new servos, unless you know something different.
Meanwhile, Aspen is tried and proven with many, many configuration options. Just sayin'

The G5, as noted elsewhere, can interface with a LOT of different autopilots.

HOWEVER... It is limited to providing heading and course deviation. If you have an attitude-based autopilot like I do, there is NOT an attitude pickoff to feed your autopilot - You are SOL at this point. :( It sounds like the OP has an S-TEC 30 though, which is rate-based and thus should work just fine with the G5.

The G3X would require panel modification whereas the Aspen sits in an existing AI/DG position.

Given the vast difference in screen real estate and functionality, it's probably worth cutting a new panel as opposed to being hamstrung with technology that is already being taxed by today's software.

Yup, I'm waiting. I got my radios and engine monitor with this upgrade and sprung for the ST901 to get GPSS while I wait for the dust to settle on the best way to replace my AI/DG with glass.

If you haven't done it yet, you might want to hold off on the engine monitor, and maybe the GPSS as well. The GPSS is relatively reasonably priced, but if you end up with something different in a year, will it have been worth it? The engine monitor functionality is built into both G3X Touch and Dynon SkyView HD, which I expect will be the two major competitors a year from now.

What type of plane do you have?

FWIW, with the developments at Oshkosh this year, my partner and I will be leaving the autopilot and the flight instruments alone for the moment. Things will probably look pretty different next year.
 
SOL or you need to keep your existing AI as a backup somewhere. And keep the vacuum system if its vac powered and you were otherwise wanting to ditch the vac pump(s)


The G5, as noted elsewhere, can interface with a LOT of different autopilots.

HOWEVER... It is limited to providing heading and course deviation. If you have an attitude-based autopilot like I do, there is NOT an attitude pickoff to feed your autopilot - You are SOL at this point. :( It sounds like the OP has an S-TEC 30 though, which is rate-based and thus should work just fine with the G5.
 
SOL or you need to keep your existing AI as a backup somewhere. And keep the vacuum system if its vac powered and you were otherwise wanting to ditch the vac pump(s)

True. What I didn't include in my message is that our AI is getting long in the tooth and showing signs it'll need to be replaced soon. I'm not too keen on spending the $$$ (it has a flight director and expensive to overhaul) unless we get additional functionality.

Our current options are:
KI-256 (same as existing AI - vacuum spinny gyro)
KI-300 (solid state LCD AI, shipping in the fourth quarter of whatever year it is this year, they say)
Aspen
G500/G600

Nothing else will drive the autopilot, to my knowledge. Hoping for Garmin to show us how they're going to compete with Dynon before we choose one of the two, and ditch the steam gauges and vacuum system.
 
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