Anyone Have Troubles Getting Work as a CFI?

[Jimmy cooper]

Most instructors I've seen in the past 20 years are young, low time, only instructing to build time, not for a career. Oftentimes they don't have much more total time than the student when he does his check ride. The fellow who taught me years ago had thousands of hours, in Stearmans and T6s, (WW2) and was a true wizard. Sort of a John mohr type. I wish I could have flown that well but did learn quite a bit from him. I don't see how one counts on it today for a decent living. Most GA airports , unless owned by some form of government, are on the edge of disaster.

 

[StinkBug]

I wrote above that I know CFIs who did it yet struggled to keep full time going . There are several reason for that. One is lack of students. When I learn to fly in 2002 aviation was more affordable. And another (most likely related to the first one) is the great student drop off rate. When started as CFI for every 5 students who walked in 4 would drop at early stages out for varies reasons.

My CFI flies with Plus one and several other clubs and he's never hurting for students. Usually the problem is more with him having enough time for everyone. The guy lives at the airport, most days 10-12 hours or more, and he's always training someone. I've seen him have someone cancel on him last minute and he had the spot filled in 20minutes. If the guys you know are struggling then they aren't hustling hard enough. As an independent you cant just sit around and wait for business to come to you, you have to get out there and bring it in.

 

[Dr. O]

If you leave a good paying job to be an itinerant CFI your Wife/POSSLQ should dump your sorry butt
First, even if the CFI is busy and getting $30 an hour he is making $15 an hour at best. For every hour in the air (kaaa-ching) he is spending an hour on the ground (silence) teaching what the student should have learned from ground school - but didn't usually.
Second, by the time that you factor in that an 8 hour day during the FBO's business hours is only a 4 hour day in the air, plus the usual slippage in schedules, plus the weather, plus the plane being AOG at some other airport, 3 hours of pay is about an average day.
Third, given you will be away from home 14 hours a day, especially during weekends and national holidays, the fact that your POSSLQ left you might not even be noticed for a few weeks.

Keep your day job buddy

 

[Bonchie]

If you leave a good paying job to be an itinerant CFI your Wife/POSSLQ should dump your sorry butt
First, even if the CFI is busy and getting $30 an hour he is making $15 an hour at best. For every hour in the air (kaaa-ching) he is spending an hour on the ground (silence) teaching what the student should have learned from ground school - but didn't usually.
Second, by the time that you factor in that an 8 hour day during the FBO's business hours is only a 4 hour day in the air, plus the usual slippage in schedules, plus the weather, plus the plane being AOG at some other airport, 3 hours of pay is about an average day.
Third, given you will be away from home 14 hours a day, especially during weekends and national holidays, the fact that your POSSLQ left you might not even be noticed for a few weeks.

Keep your day job buddy

Everyone charges for ground time around here.

 

[Henning]

I really only have a few options locally for working as a CFI:
The Local FBO that rents planes and you have to be on staff as a CFI
Another Local flight club with monthly dues and more than 10 registered CFI's posted on their webpage.
The next closest airport that does instruction has 2 instructors and doesn't really seem to have any interest in having any backup instructors either.

I currently work full time in sales but i am thinking i'm ready to take the paycut to go full time CFI.

Any help or suggestions would be appreciated.

Find a way to buy a mid time engine 150/152/172 and build your own business. It's really the best way to go about it. Most insurance will let you have up to 5 students at a time on basic rates, and you keep your day job.

 

[EdFred]

First, even if the CFI is busy and getting $30 an hour he is making $15 an hour at best. For every hour in the air (kaaa-ching) he is spending an hour on the ground (silence) teaching what the student should have learned from ground school

It helps to actually know what you are talking about before posting. Every CFI I've had charged the same rate for ground as for air time - as do I.

 

[sdflyer]

My CFI flies with Plus one and several other clubs and he's never hurting for students. Usually the problem is more with him having enough time for everyone. The guy lives at the airport, most days 10-12 hours or more, and he's always training someone. I've seen him have someone cancel on him last minute and he had the spot filled in 20minutes. If the guys you know are struggling then they aren't hustling hard enough. As an independent you cant just sit around and wait for business to come to you, you have to get out there and bring it in.

What a life I can imagine. 10-12 hours a day! If you think it's normal I don't . Not struggling in my definition 8 hours a day 5 days a week.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Kiddo's Driver]

It helps to actually know what you are talking about before posting. Every CFI I've had charged the same rate for ground as for air time - as do I.

And I happily paid that rate for both.

 

[EdFred]

And I happily paid that rate for both.

Let's just not talk about whether you think you got a good value or not.

 

[Checkout_my_Six]

If you leave a good paying job to be an itinerant CFI your Wife/POSSLQ should dump your sorry butt
First, even if the CFI is busy and getting $30 an hour he is making $15 an hour at best. For every hour in the air (kaaa-ching) he is spending an hour on the ground (silence) teaching what the student should have learned from ground school - but didn't usually.
Second, by the time that you factor in that an 8 hour day during the FBO's business hours is only a 4 hour day in the air, plus the usual slippage in schedules, plus the weather, plus the plane being AOG at some other airport, 3 hours of pay is about an average day.
Third, given you will be away from home 14 hours a day, especially during weekends and national holidays, the fact that your POSSLQ left you might not even be noticed for a few weeks.

Keep your day job buddy

It can't be that bad....else why are so many doing it?

what, no weekend or holiday pay differential?

 

[uncreative]

What a life I can imagine. 10-12 hours a day! If you think it's normal I don't . Not struggling in my definition 8 hours a day 5 days a week.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Uhh, welcome to the real world. I'm not a CFI but am established in an IT career where I work with lots of different people in different careers, and I don't know anyone (with the exception of state workers) who works 8 hours a day 5 days a week.

 

[sdflyer]

My CFI flies with Plus one and several other clubs and he's never hurting for students. Usually the problem is more with him having enough time for everyone. The guy lives at the airport, most days 10-12 hours or more, and he's always training someone. I've seen him have someone cancel on him last minute and he had the spot filled in 20minutes. If the guys you know are struggling then they aren't hustling hard enough. As an independent you cant just sit around and wait for business to come to you, you have to get out there and bring it in.

What a life I can imagine. 10-12 hours a day! If you think it's normal I don't . Not struggling in my definition 8 hours a day 5 days a week.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Henning]

It helps to actually know what you are talking about before posting. Every CFI I've had charged the same rate for ground as for air time - as do I.

None of mine ever did, I always got charged Hobbs unless it was a flat fee service, and I have had a lot of instructors.

 

[StinkBug]

So first you talk about CFI's struggling to find enough students, then I show you one who is currently booked more than full time in the same flying club in the same city and you call that struggling too.

Ever think maybe he's there 10-12 hours a day because he chooses to, and has the business to support it? He's independent, so if he wanted to go home he could, and sometimes does.

 

[StinkBug]

Uhh, welcome to the real world. I'm not a CFI but am established in an IT career where I work with lots of different people in different careers, and I don't know anyone (with the exception of state workers) who works 8 hours a day 5 days a week.

Obviously he doesn't know much about being self employed either. I was in my shop working til almost 2am last night. I'm not sure what a normal work day is.

 

[Henning]

Obviously he doesn't know much about being self employed either. I was in my shop working til almost 2am last night. I'm not sure what a normal work day is.

Yeah, for me, when I'm working, it's typically 24/7 duty days until the contract is over. Whatever it takes, it takes, failure isn't particularly an option, and some conditions take more than a day to resolve.

 

[EdFred]

None of mine ever did, I always got charged Hobbs unless it was a flat fee service, and I have had a lot of instructors.

Yes but everything is different in your world.

 

[Henning]

Yes but everything is different in your world.

Maybe in markets where CFIs are limited you can get away with charging for pre and post flight briefings and lectures, but not in a saturated market like FL or SoCal. If you tried you would not have a student. Pilots are cheap.

 

[mtuomi]

I agree with Henning re. FL market. $25-30/ph and free ground is the expectation there.

 

[Checkout_my_Six]

Yes but everything is different in your world.

Oh no....make it stop.

 

[StinkBug]

Maybe in markets where CFIs are limited you can get away with charging for pre and post flight briefings and lectures, but not in a saturated market like FL or SoCal. If you tried you would not have a student. Pilots are cheap.

I'm in socal and pay for ground just like air. As a business owner I couldn't understand anyone spending time working for free. Sometimes you have to for one reason or another, but not as a general practice. That's a poor business model.

 

[Henning]

I'm in socal and pay for ground just like air. As a business owner I couldn't understand anyone spending time working for free. Sometimes you have to for one reason or another, but not as a general practice. That's a poor business model.

Maybe, and maybe many have quit doing it, but yet today in Fla, unless you are in an academy type program, you will not be paying for ground. But then 'ground' is typically 10 minutes pre and post flight brief/debrief with the rest handled in flight in a symbiotic manner with the flight instruction, and students study on their own time and show up prepared. If you require spoon feeding, yeah, you should pay extra.

 

[Theboys]

As a business owner all my life 70 hrs was probably a lite week. Busy times were closer to 130 hrs. Got up at 3 this morning to work on some paperwork. You get out of anything what you put in.

 

[James331]

130hrs a week on a lite week, sounds like you aren't doing something right.

 

[Henning]

130hrs a week on a lite week, sounds like you aren't doing something right.

At least not if you do it for long duration. When I work like that, I only work a few weeks a year and take the rest of the time to have fun.

 

[Timmer]

I'm in socal and pay for ground just like air. As a business owner I couldn't understand anyone spending time working for free. Sometimes you have to for one reason or another, but not as a general practice. That's a poor business model.

All the instructors I talked to don't charge any different if you're on the ground or in the air, either. You're paying for their time. If it's time well spent, you're learning either way, so I'm not sure why one would be less valuable than the other.

 

[Theboys]

All those hours were when I was young and trying to get where I am today. retired in my early 50s and do what I want, but those old habits are hard to break.

 

[jordane93]

Maybe in markets where CFIs are limited you can get away with charging for pre and post flight briefings and lectures, but not in a saturated market like FL or SoCal. If you tried you would not have a student. Pilots are cheap.

I charge for ground and CFIs are not limited in my area. Pretty much every CFI I know charges for ground. The pre and post briefs are the most important times of the lesson IMO and I was happy to pay my CFI for his valuable insight.

 

[StinkBug]

All the instructors I talked to don't charge any different if you're on the ground or in the air, either. You're paying for their time. If it's time well spent, you're learning either way, so I'm not sure why one would be less valuable than the other.

I feel the same. My CFI gives me a bunch of homework and expects me to study and be prepared so that he doesn't need to do much ground. Keyword "MUCH". Some of the most valuable time I've had is with him quizzing me on what I know and have retained from studying. When I miss something with him it sticks in my mind much better. That's worth something, and I don't mind paying for it.

 

[nimdabew]

I charge for ground and CFIs are not limited in my area. Pretty much every CFI I know charges for ground. The pre and post briefs are the most important times of the lesson IMO and I was happy to pay my CFI for his valuable insight.

I can't imagine only teaching someone when the oil pressure is 20 psi or greater. When I am getting paid, that is the students time. If I am not, then I am on my own time and I choose when and where I work.

 

[James331]

All those hours were when I was young and trying to get where I am today. retired in my early 50s and do what I want, but those old habits are hard to break.

Lots of folks retire at 50 with a good QOL and only work 40hr weeks.

If you loved what you were doing for a living that's another subject though.

 

[nimdabew]

It helps to actually know what you are talking about before posting. Every CFI I've had charged the same rate for ground as for air time - as do I.

I charge equal pay for flight and ground. What he is talking about is time paid vs time at the airport. I had a great example of this the other day.

I live 35-60 minutes away from my airport depending on traffic so it is impractical to drive home during dead time. I arrived at work at 0830 for a 0900 flight. The flight went well and I billed for 1.3 flight with .5 ground after for a total of 1.8. He left. Next student was supposed to come in at 1200 for a flight but canceled because we both agreed the weather wasn't good enough. I sat around for 3 hours for the following flight at 1500. That flight went well and I billed another 1.7. Then I was sitting at the airport until 2030 for night to happen so I could do a 2 hour night cross country for one of my students. I left the airport at 2345 after billing 2.1. Total pay, little less than 6 hours. Total time at airport, 15 hours.

I am not saying this to get sympathy, or that I didn't know what the life style is like, just most people don't realize time spent at the airport is a lost opportunity cost that doesn't usually net pay.

 

[NoHeat]

There are only a few Cirrus instructors (CSIPs) in Iowa. It costs something to get the training to become a CSIP, and thereafter for the training to remain one. But it is something that will work for a CFII who is not affiliated with a local facility.

 

[FlyingForMe]

Forums crack me up!!
No need to argue people, every market is different, every man/woman has their own standards as to what they are OK with.

For me, i just want to fly, if that means i'm only making $25k a year as an instructor, great! i'll UBER part time, wait tables or something to compensate, i'm not afraid of working hard. I just want to be working hard doing something i LOVE!!!!
Of course i hope to make more than $25k/year but you get the point.

As for Ground Instruction, if you are not charging for it, you should be, you have paid good money to be a Ground Instructor and a Flight Instructor. BOTH.
I have always been charged for ground time and flight time, usually two different rates but time is money.

I like the idea of buying my own plane to do this, i will have to look into this a little more and see.

 

[jesse]

Forums crack me up!!
No need to argue people, every market is different, every man/woman has their own standards as to what they are OK with.

For me, i just want to fly, if that means i'm only making $25k a year as an instructor, great! i'll UBER part time, wait tables or something to compensate, i'm not afraid of working hard. I just want to be working hard doing something i LOVE!!!!

As for Ground Instruction, if you are not charging for it, you should be, you have paid good money to be a Ground Instructor and a Flight Instructor. BOTH.
I have always been charged for ground time and flight time, usually two different rates but time is money.

I like the idea of buying my own plane to do this, i will have to look into this a little more and see.

How committed are you to staying in Des Moines to do this? Drive three hours west and I might have an opportunity for you.

 

[FlyingForMe]

How committed are you to staying in Des Moines to do this? Drive three hours west and I might have an opportunity for you.

I am pretty set on staying in DSM until i have a more lucrative offer than i can pass on. That being said, a 3 hour drive could be doable on a weekend basis. I may be up for doing a long weekend every so often, say a Sat, Sun, and Mon.
Let me know if that could possibly work every other weekend or something.

 

[cwoods798]

The pilot shortage is very much a real thing, the university that I attend is losing flight instructors at a rate of about 4 per month going to the regional airlines. Of course there will be those who reply to this with the typical "**** pay comments and schedule sucks comments" but in my opinion those are the people that are held back from a career in professional aviation for a reason they dont talk about. Theres a few in my family that fly for Delta Airlines and have done so for the past 32 years...and they both say that the pilot shortage is starting to effect the major airlines.

 

[flhrci]

Coming to this thread late. I cannot move for a better than my currently part-time CFI gig for reasons I do not wish to disclose. Due to lack of students, I am contemplating not renewing my CFI next year. Shortage or not, it isn't helping me any.

I live in a city where you can probably find 40 CFI's locally all competing in maybe 5 airports around the area. Too much competition for very few students and the university is not helping any by turning out more CFI's. So, as I read on page 1, some areas hurting for CFI's, others not so much.

I probably will renew it but I am not bothering with a 2nd class medical for now. No point.

David

 

[jordane93]

Coming to this thread late. I cannot move for a better than my currently part-time CFI gig for reasons I do not wish to disclose. Due to lack of students, I am contemplating not renewing my CFI next year. Shortage or not, it isn't helping me any.

I live in a city where you can probably find 40 CFI's locally all competing in maybe 5 airports around the area. Too much competition for very few students and the university is not helping any by turning out more CFI's. So, as I read on page 1, some areas hurting for CFI's, others not so much.

I probably will renew it but I am not bothering with a 2nd class medical for now. No point.

David

Don't let you CFI expire! You worked hard to earn it. Just do the refresher course. You never know what teaching opportunities might come up.

 

[Tarheelpilot]

You've been drinking the KoolAid!

yep. I was thinking the same thing.